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linedog56
10-03-2007, 06:12 AM
Can anyone tell me if there is a regulation that covers tying more than one phase of primary to a bucket truck? I have seen this done many times and it doesn't look safe. One phase held in the wire holder on the jib, one phase held by the lineman, and the third phase tied to the boom behind the lineman. If someone can help me find a regulation that prohibits this maybe our linemen will discontinue the practice.

Thanks,
Linedog

loodvig
10-03-2007, 07:12 AM
Years ago I saw that done. It scared the shit out of me! There must be something on that. We used to have a fiberglass false arm that went on the boom of our digger and we could raise/hold all 3 phases up. It was good up to 25kv.

Orgnizdlbr
10-03-2007, 07:58 AM
Can anyone tell me if there is a regulation that covers tying more than one phase of primary to a bucket truck? I have seen this done many times and it doesn't look safe. One phase held in the wire holder on the jib, one phase held by the lineman, and the third phase tied to the boom behind the lineman. If someone can help me find a regulation that prohibits this maybe our linemen will discontinue the practice.

Thanks,
Linedog

I wouldn't do it....out of curiosity, where is this being done?

PK270
10-03-2007, 01:24 PM
There is only one wire holder on the boom. Lineman holding a phase? It can be done, WE ALL know this, whether we have done it ourselves or seen it done. As far as tying another phase to the boom, there are definitely lineman around that use this practice and say that it can be done. You are most definitely overloading the boom.

Just because you can get away with something a time or two does not make it right.

HEADLINES--- apprentice killed when hanging streetlight, investigation will determine why boom had catastrophic failure. Maybe cause it was used as a three phase lift. If it is not rated or designed to be used for a specific purpose, you may want to seek another alternative.

KyLineman
10-03-2007, 04:12 PM
Done it several times using hoses and cover up on pole changeouts and crossarm changes. take a rope tie to the phase on your arm, hang one on the jib and lay the other on the bucket. As far as overloading the boom, You are not overloading the boom on the wire sizes we are using this method on up to 2/0 acsr. You do have to use your hoses and coverup. What is the difference between your boom and a layout arm with two phase just a foot and a half apart with no coverup. Just a friendly way of saying we do it and have had no issue with it.

Oregon Lineman
10-03-2007, 10:18 PM
Would not do, you do not stick or glove opposite phase. Why take the risk. Never have done it in over 20 years, in fact never would think of doing it.

Meat
10-04-2007, 01:18 AM
Your so called lineman are a joke and a disgrace to the trade. Every real lineman knows what our safety rules were written in. Good luck!

Mike-E
10-04-2007, 05:58 PM
That is just crazy. Too many things that could go wrong.

US & CA Tramp
10-04-2007, 07:16 PM
Can anyone tell me if there is a regulation that covers tying more than one phase of primary to a bucket truck? I have seen this done many times and it doesn't look safe. One phase held in the wire holder on the jib, one phase held by the lineman, and the third phase tied to the boom behind the lineman. If someone can help me find a regulation that prohibits this maybe our linemen will discontinue the practice.

Thanks,
Linedog

This situation you described would be breaking the Minimum Approach Distance (MAD) regulations in 1910.269. It is also against the manufacturers specifications for the arial lift. There is a lengthy letter of interpretation in the OSHA regulations that discusses this type of practice. Go to the OSHA web site and look at the letters of interpretations in 1910.269. The September 2005 letter to the IBEW would be a good place to start. The letter is way to long to put on this Forum. I hope this helps.

west coast hand
10-05-2007, 12:23 AM
I was in maryland on hurricane isabel and watched pike move all three phases on the bucket to the new pole they set it was pretty scary looking. It stuff like that way there are so many accidents and deaths in this trade???

linemanfrog
10-05-2007, 03:02 PM
Seems like people forget that on most bucket trucks the basket itself is only rated to around 300 pounds. The average lineman is probably around 190, the bucket line is around 40, then throw in the weight of tools etc......getting mighty close to the weight limit in most cases before they even put the phase on the bucket lip. They make fiberglass "trees" that are meant to be put on either the boom itself or on the end of the job for doing this kind of stuff. Personally, I would not want to tie myself into one position by using any of the above methods. Use temporary arms, float the phases, or whatever instead of tying yourself into a fixed position.

500 KVA
10-05-2007, 09:18 PM
You must think it's okay to work like complete idiots. You morons learn anything in any sort of training program that would be remotely close to being considered an apprenticeship?

I am really beginning to doubt it. Working with more than one phase. Well it has rubber on it. What a joke! You are just plain STUPID! No other way to put it.

There are tools designed to lift multiple phases, such as the fiberglass extension arms that Canadian Lineman was refering to, or lifting sticks, would be the only acceptable method.

I just cannot believe in these times we have such imbiciles in this industry that are probably training another generation of dumbasses.

grillman
10-06-2007, 12:22 AM
I agree with 500 KVA completely. I got out of college and the rat outfit I went to work for wanted us to lift 3 phase with the boom and just rubber cover on it. And this was my third day on the job with no primary experience beforehand. Needless to say I did not stay there long. Now I have stories of experience to tell my brother who is going to lineschool."Little Bro, Dont be like these morons"

Be safe guys. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING BEFORE YOU DO IT!
I hear so much about people blaming the companies but c'mon, we are our own worst enemies. BE SAFE.
I know I am gonna get lit up on this blog now, but look at the topic we are dicussing then look in the mirror and ask yourself if you have always done it by the rules, or have you been the guy to take the shorcut or not stand up for yourself because the foreman told you to do it this way.
Please THINK BEFORE YOU ACT
GRILLMAN

linedog56
10-06-2007, 08:45 PM
I asked for some help. A few of you seem more intrested in casting stones than offering help or advice, for you I am truly sorry. I felt this forum being for linemen that there would be some valuble information available.
Thanks for the help,
Linedog

Orgnizdlbr
10-06-2007, 09:33 PM
I asked for some help. A few of you seem more intrested in casting stones than offering help or advice, for you I am truly sorry. I felt this forum being for linemen that there would be some valuble information available.
Thanks for the help,
Linedog

As I said, I wouldnt do it the way you described it. Its unsafe period, i dont care what anyone else here tells you. It can be done safely with the proper equipment.

billfoster67
10-06-2007, 10:34 PM
I have worked utility and construction for 10 years. And temped for utilities for shortages. We have rules that we go by. Three phases with a "christmas tree" is fine. Doing what you are doing will be great 100 times, then once it you'll be in a bind and its you with two phases that go together in your face. Or you destroyed, the levelling cables in the bucket, and you will get dumped out in two years, by picking up 750 on a long span. Linework you can gamble, but you don't have to. If its acceptable practice at your workplace, I wouldn't do it. Its being a cowboy, you have an apprentice whose watching that will think its acceptable and do it. Then in several years you will have many men doing it. Then one of those men think its acceptable will be six feet under. The wife will get nothing be its not a safe acceptable practice- nor his children. The trade loses men, the families lose a loved one who needs their fathers- just to be a cowboy.

500 KVA
10-06-2007, 11:44 PM
Pretty sure you got your answer. You must not be too bright. I thought it was quite clear.

You will eventually kill yourself or someone else. Or somebody will think you know what you are doing and kill themselves thinking they're doing something properly that they saw you doing.

I thought I was asking a question and I got called a name. BOOO HOOO.

Stop doing it! You are risking your life doing something that is a fundamentally basic principle in linework. Whoever showed you that bullshit is a very stupid lineman! So are you for doing it.

Get your head out of your ass!

Anybody that tells you that its okay to do it is pretty sorry linehand themselves!

500 KVA
10-07-2007, 12:02 AM
This is really bothering me.

Who is this stupid? I mean come on??

Maybe it's just a prank for halloween? If it is then I say good one. You got me.

You guys need to really look at the practices and ways you perform your work. Are we teaching someone the wrong things. This guy obviously had to learn it from someone.

What's the first thing someone will suggest when he kills himself doing this? It's the companies fault. Well in this case I would think they are liable since it appears to be a standard practice there. But it is also this guys fault equally. No excuse in the world would make me think he was not totally to blame

Next time you do something just a bit questionable, stop and think about it. Who's learning the wrong things from my doing this the way I am doing it?

Just when you think an apprentice is dumber than a box of rocks and cannot learn a thing, he will pick up somthing he really shouldn't have from you. Let's try to stop this from happening if we can from this point forward.

I know I'm going to try my best to do things right from now on. Who's with me?

HIVOLTS
10-07-2007, 12:02 PM
How about comon sense? I supervise a group of men and I tell them constantly I will not knock on their door and tell the wife their husband is hurt because we didn't have enough equipment, or people on the job, or say in hindsight we could have done it differently that would have been safer, and I expect from them not to put me in the position of telling their wife they got hurt because they did something stupid, or broke a safety rule. The most important thing I drill into younger workers is to always have an out if something goes wrong. Know which way your going to go if the worst happens, and make sure everyone else on the job knows too. In the situation you describe where will you go if a truck snags a low hanging service down the road, or a car hits a pole two spans down and drags all that primary together across your bucket with you in the middle? Would you lock yourself in a cage with three sleeping tigers for what ever your hourly wage is?

Stinger
10-07-2007, 12:03 PM
As loodvig said, there is a temporary arm you can use with the digger. 500KV gave you good advise. Bottom line, do not do it. A question to ponder on- you rig yourself up the way you described, and the moment goes to a very bad day, how are you going to do bucket rescue? I know when I plan work for myself or the crew, the what if situation is always factered in the approach of how we will do the job. If your foreman is allowing this, he does not value your life very much.

jerry
10-08-2007, 12:36 PM
I have wondered why you hear about so many Lineman being killed,now I know why. If we are doing stupid SH** like this. I thank God I was fortunate enough to have been Trained by Very experienced and Safe Journeyman Lineman. Don't mean to sound Judgemental,but have been a Journeyman Lineman for 36 Years and About to Retire. Be "Safe",you are responsible for your own Safety,use your "HEAD". Also what ever happened to only working one phase at atime?

Oregon Lineman
10-08-2007, 07:42 PM
I see no one casting stones. As I said in my post early this month. Would not even think of it. I would be worried if the people I worked with or for did. I would be scared to come to work. If it seems unsafe or I have to ask if it is safe, then it is probably not. Work safe keep the brotherhood strong

h0tgl0v3r
10-09-2007, 09:33 PM
I can only re-iterrate what everyone else is saying; you want a regulation that prohibits this practice, I dont believe it exists.... because if you work to recognised line work practices you dont need it. Apply common sense and the whole thing is bounced out of the park. Is there a regulation that ALLOWS this prctice? .... NO.
Ask youself and your colleagues...
Are you following an approved and recognised method?
Are you working within the constraints outlined by the manufacturer of the boom?
Are you overloading the bucket?
Are you maintaining positive control of the conductors you are moving at all times?
How do you get down when someone gets hurt?

What happens when it all goes sour..................... another tragic accident that SHOULD have been avoided.

graybeard
10-13-2007, 11:02 AM
Thank God the guy asked for HELP. What a great place this site is for lineman to come to get help. We've all seen enough posts on here to know that not everyone is doing the work the same way. Some places have work on shoestring and some get all the equipment and man power they need. So when someone comes on here and asks for help lets give it to them. So yea how you are doing three phase is WRONG. You need to either use a tree or more trucks or float two of the phases, but putting them on the boom like you may very well get someone hurt or worse yet killed.
Thats why its up to old hands who know better to teach those who don't!

PK270
10-13-2007, 04:23 PM
If you cannot handle brutal honesty then you may need to rethink this trade.

I have worked with many "500 KVA" in my time. I would rather a man talk to me like that than let me do something stupid just because guys have gotten away with it.

I am glad a few touched on this but this is exactly the type of stuff that will kill someone and a 100 others will be pointing the finger at the company. If a company makes you work in this fashion maybe it is time for you to point a finger at them.

RETIRE WITH WHAT YOU HIRED WITH.