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fastlane
12-07-2007, 02:11 PM
During our end of the earth wildfires recently,our Co. had a helocopter crash that only by the grace of God did all 4 people inside walk away from.It wasn't execs. out for a joy ride but in fact was line side personel patrolling the lines. This event got us to thinking about life insurance and questions are being asked but the answers aren't good.Alot of private policies will not pay out if you die from any aircraft mishap unless you are a fare paying passenger and even our own Co. AD&D(accidental death and dismemberment)policy will not pay out if you are part of the FLIGHT CREW.It seems right now that the interpretation of flight crew is wide open.Cigna( our insurance Co.)has said over the phone that whether or not electric workers using helos could be considered as part of the flight crew would most likely be decided in court.
Since our yard here does quite a bit of helo work this situation is troubling to say the least.Any other fly boys out there with input would be helpful but everyone that works around helocopters should check into this.

shaun
12-07-2007, 04:35 PM
I fly (private pilot) and insurance is tough. Check AOPA (Aircraft Owners and Pilot's Association) and check out what types of insurance policies they offer and bring that info to the company and see if they'll help out. I pay for my own insurance but I also only fly on my own time. Nothing to do with work. You shouldn't have to get you own coverage if the company requires you to fly but you definately should be afforded the protection. I know it's a stretch but maybe you'll get lucky and the company will take care of ya? (wishful thinking) Good luck.

IronLine
12-07-2007, 04:58 PM
Hey bud, I do Helo and our company does offer a supplemental life insurance and AD&D plan, I have not signed up for it, I was under the impression that this work was so much safer than regular line work :rolleyes: after about 3 days on the job I learned the difference lol. Bein up in the mountains of Montana and hearin' that beepbeepbeepbeepbeep bumps up the 'ol pucker factor some. I'm in the process of finding out who our insurance is through and how I can sign up for it, so I will keep you informed as the what I found out if you're interested man. Be Safe!

Bull Dog
12-07-2007, 05:19 PM
I'm a pilot Its not wide open who the flight crew is. check out the latest issue of FAR/AIM manual published by the federal gov. Flight crew member means a pilot, flight engineer, or flight navigator assigned to duty in an aircraft during flight time. Not lineman in aircraft as a passenger. I would check with my insurance company to see if they might have a problem with this. Linemen are hard to insure anyway. Especially if you tell them you work construction.

fastlane
12-10-2007, 10:22 AM
I agree about the flight crew stuff but it was the insurance Co. that thru us the curveball.If a pilot is only moving people from point A to point B then yes it sure seems as though they are just passengers.Now if a lineman is in the ship for the purpose of directing the pilot to a certain job location just exactly who is the navigator?Or what if two or more linemen are doing linework out of the helo you would have a pilot,a spotter and a worker all working together as a CREW.Yes, this is picking the fly shit out of pepper but remember if serious injury or death is involved there will be huge lawsuits complete with lawyers that are very good at twisting facts around.My concern is that we are running into a brick wall trying to get someone,anyone to give us documentation that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that we would be covered and our families taken care of in the event of a helo accident.Even if we get this straightened out with our Co. insurance there still is the fact that alot of privately held policies ( check with Minnesota Life for example)will not pay out.

Bull Dog
12-10-2007, 04:00 PM
What I posted is not my opinion it is the law. Now how a court will interpert the law we all know that can go either way. I wouldn't worry about it cause it will end up in court either way. If there is any wiggle room at all the Insurance company's will go for it. However if you read the law closely it looks to me there pretty clear who is the crew and who is not. You gonna tell me how to fly I don't think so. Pilot in command is just that not the air traffic controller or anyone else. Your right lots of companys wont pay but they will tell you this before you send a check. I guess what im telling you is if something goes wrong in that aircraft guess who the goverment will blame. It wont be the line man that told the pilot to get a little closer to that guy wire. The pilot is also responsable to be shure that aircraft is in flyable condition before he takes off. He is tested certified medically and his flying skills are tested also. Hasent there ever been a accident with a helo im shure there has. You could check the history of these accidents to see how they were settled that would give you and idea who got screwed by the lawyers and insurance companys.

shaun
12-10-2007, 05:28 PM
I'm a pilot Its not wide open who the flight crew is. check out the latest issue of FAR/AIM manual published by the federal gov. Flight crew member means a pilot, flight engineer, or flight navigator assigned to duty in an aircraft during flight time. Not lineman in aircraft as a passenger. I would check with my insurance company to see if they might have a problem with this. Linemen are hard to insure anyway. Especially if you tell them you work construction.


You right B.D. I never thought to look in that nasty book. (I hate that thing..but need it) Flightcrew sends you to flightcrewmember and a bunch more info. Several in fact. I still can't find a good answer so I sent them an e-mail. I'll post their reply, if it's not a generic one.

Bull Dog
12-10-2007, 05:30 PM
Shawn good to here from you. That nasty book is like the bible one of my flight instructors told me to take it to bed. He was a continental captain with over 30 yrs. Tks ill look at it but Im thinking it tell you stewardess are part of the crew ect.

shaun
12-10-2007, 05:42 PM
Good to hear from you also. Haven't flown lately, busy and need a new medical. It the (book) went into variations but mostly responsibilites and do's/do not's regarding critical times while inflight. Nothing I could find as far as the question asked. We'll see. Take care fella.

IronLine
12-13-2007, 06:37 PM
Still working on getting my insurance information, but as far as the company I work for is concerned, if you are in that helicopter, and you are employed by them, you are considered part of that flight crew.

Bull Dog
12-14-2007, 01:45 PM
I called the federal aviation administration flight standards district office in Milwaukee and spoke with them. The lineman doing the maintenance is definely not considered part of the flight crew according to them. The direction given to the pilot by the line crew is incidental to the operation of that aircraft and does not relieve the pilot from the responsabillity to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. As far as liability for insurance purposes that would have to be discussed with the utility companys attorneys and insurance company attorneys to get a answer. Hope this helps someone.

fastlane
12-14-2007, 06:01 PM
This is exactly the problem,some say you are flight crew and some say no. If a lineman is depending on an insurance policy to take care of his family in the event of a helo accident the last thing anyone wants is to get into a long drug out court battle. Insurance money shouldn't have to be fought for in this case.Just not worth the risk so most of us out here will probably stay away from helo work until this is straightened out.My Co. also is still looking into it.As always until you are sure about something,cover your ass.