Red Simpson/ Pike

[m_kohner]

hey guys i have a job offer from red simpson who is currently being bought out by pike, is there anyone out there with input good or bad, i dont have friends or dont know anyone personally from there?.....thanks ...mike

[rick]

Mike, where is it that they are putting you? Pike is a good co. to work for. VERY safety oriented. Pay is good. Pike bought RSI a while ago so things are changing. Rsi and pike did things different so there will be some changes coming too. You can pm me if you want specifics on benefits etc......

[electric squirrel]

Aren't they rats,I would do the right thing and go IBEW,stay away fron dead simpson!!!!!!!

[CenterPointEX]

Red Simpson puts anyone who will on thier crews whether they know anything or not... They don't have the resources to effectivly train new lineman... the way ya learn at Simnpson is watchin dudes get smoked n doin it differant next time N hope that way don't smoke ya... Their pay is crap also, thats why they have to drag bums out of the Home Depot parkin lot N call em a linecrew... eventually they will figure it out don't get me wrong... the ones that live long enough that is...

[m_kohner]

Mike, where is it that they are putting you? Pike is a good co. to work for. VERY safety oriented. Pay is good. Pike bought RSI a while ago so things are changing. Rsi and pike did things different so there will be some changes coming too. You can pm me if you want specifics on benefits etc......
im from south texas, and am coming in as a journeyman lineman, do they have medical,dental,and etc-uniforms

[just say no]

hey swamp rat, you forgot to mention how we "union" lineman have to go behind you rats to fix your " rat "work...

[Linemo]

Come On Guys lighten up the guy was asking for advice on how a company was to work for and not about Union or Non Union !! Mike I have been around a few Red Simpson crews they had good equipment but the ones i saw were undertrained ! On the other hand I had the PLEASURE of running Pike crews during Hurricane Isabell they were great good equipment well trained and very focused on safety and doing the job right!Now before you say anything I am now and have always been Union in this work since I started !If there is one thing we all need ot remember is we all try to do our jobs and we need to focus on that and dont get caught up in the Union or Non Union thing !

[just say no]

linemo, "lighten up" whats up with that.swamp rat and all his rat buddies are takeing our union jobs by working cheap,un-safe and sub-standard work.you must also be a scab cause no union bros could care less what a scab feels or thinks.

[rick]

How do you figure that we are taking you union jobs? Half the shit we do is cuz YOU don't want to do it. I didn't ask to do faults and shit.It was put upon us by the union shop who couldn't get a crew to do the damn stuff. My fault......HARDLY.

[rick]

Mike, we at pike have good Medical, dental and eye. We also have personal insurance (kind of like aflac),and a good safety pay bonuses. Equiptment is in excelent shape,and well maintained. However we do not have uniforms.

[just say no]

dream on,you get "our" work not because you do superior work but for one main reason..........CHEAP..........just like your sh*t work...

[rick]

dream on,you get "our" work not because you do superior work but for one main reason..........CHEAP..........just like your sh*t work...
Not once did I say we or I do superior work, I personally take pride in MY work. It will not be shitty ,messy or anything! It Will be Quality work.Now if my contractor boss company does it cheaper, is not my fault. I would be glad to work union, but with all this chatter about Fpl, I will stay here untill the B.S is over. As for your opinion, you should do as your name says...... just say no, keep off the drugs, they are clouding you vision.!

[m_kohner]

okay guys you are throwing union at me so here it is, i kinda have a problem i am a JIW and have been for many years, i worked everywhere from texas to chicago then came 9-11 work got slow and came home my BA pulled some strings and got me on with a line contractor and i started out as a grunt on an underground crew went to climbing school got on an overhead crew, climbed my ass of and worked my way to the bucket and here i am a journeyman lineman, i still pay dues but how many union contractors will take a lineman with a JIW ticket, on top of that i got a wife and kids and wanna stay home with a permanent full time job, this is my story, call it what you will, im tired of working for a month or so getting laid off, and waiting for another call, once i climbed my first pole i knew this was it i dont care to bend pipe anymore, my BA says he cant switch my ticket over, 278 dont have many lineman calls he says, down here in s-texas it is all non union line work, only union line work down here local 16 brings in some guys from myers.... mike

[rick]

Mike, activate your Private messages, so I can tell you some things.

[just say no]

with out a union there would be no negotiations or rights..company's like fpl would just say do it or else..like most rat companys do... the chatter you here is a union fighting for there rights..rights you at your " rat " outfit don't have..that is the differance..you say you would work union if you could ..then do it.there are many unoin contractors out there. you got to go get it. or try organizing within. i know being a lineman is hard work[ ive been one 20 years, all union.] and don't want any one hurt,union or not,but don't bad mouth one when your not in it..either way work safe for your FAMILY..

[rick]

I'd love to, but I have to wait a couple of years untill the wife finishes her schhol and the kids are a bit bigger. Me going to Miama for good knows how long, just isn't possible right now. I know there is a few others out there, like progress, but they are cutting jobs. I don,t want to quite one job, then lose another to cuts. Rather just work 7 miles from home till it is good Ya know? Sorry I get" Ruffled" when some start saying my work is no good just cuz I don't pay dues.BTW, what is the avg. of the dues and how often do you pay them? seriosly I don't know.

[bashlin]

whats so good about being in a union? i am glad to work in goergia were we still have trust-worthy managment. our pike crews that work for my co-op are just as good as anyone else. i have a lot of good friends that work for pike. i don't think anyone should knock another mans company. i agree the guy was just wanting some info. is anyone not in union a scab?

[just say no]

rick,i know some non-union lineman may do good work and i hope you do ..but alot don't..perhaps inferior training or whatever.we've had many non-union contractors hire on fpl and every one ive talked to were happier then pig in sh*t to be in a union.i can't begin to tell you the horror stories ive heard. dues vary by local,could be anywhere from 35-50 a month...not really much for someone to protect your rights under a contract..we went through about 400 plus lineman job cuts about 10 years ago...and now they can't get enough hired..be patient it all goes in cycles...in about 3-5 years over 60% of our work force will be eligable to retire....and thier vary concerned....good luck.

[m_kohner]

Mike, activate your Private messages, so I can tell you some things.
how do you activate the pm

[m_kohner]

how do you activate the pm
ok its activated...i got it,,,

[just say no]

swampgas,you need anger management fast,oh yeah your rat outfit probably won't provide you with this benifit..sounds to me your kinda jelaous your not enjoying some " gravey ". personally i enjoy watching you guys doing all the "big" work as i drive by in my new air conditioned truck..i'll enjoy it more come summer.........work safe....that's no joke.....

[Stanman, at ComEdy Il.]

When you're in a union shop you don't have to work until you're dead.. What's your answer to that swampy?? I get a nice 401k, The wife and kids get benefits, I get a pension, What do you get? Shit!!! I also like the idea of being in good enough shape to enjoy my retirement. Not being half dead and never able to retire. If you're so damn good why haven't you gone union??

Tell the kids how fun it is bein' a "scab", and only doing the shit work that is left for you to do, by the union people.... Can't tell the boss no can ya??? If the apps. are going union, at least they have smarts..What's your excuse???

[Monteur _Quebec]

Think this is getting just a bit out of hand here when you guys start personaly attacking each other. Dont think anyone is gonna learn anything here by fighting like cats vs dogs .

Im union have been all my lineman life & at times if i could have gotten out i would have . I have personaly worked with Union & non Union contractors , even in the same pole ,they were all good lineman just trying to earn a living just like everyone else.
We may at times use different methods to do same work but it all comes down to keeping the lights on.

Just my 2 cents even if they are only worth 1 cent & a half .

[Outlaw Lineman]

I saw a bunch of Pike crews when I was in Florida (75% of the staging area). Their trucks were pretty beat but every time I saw them in the field they were all working hard. What they built looked just like what the FPL hands built. I talked to a few of them and they all seemed pretty happy. I've been union my entire lineman career and wouldn't change it if I could but I won't fault a man for working non-union (I've learned a lot about both sides of the house these last few years). That may be the only way he was able to get into the trade. I saw some excellent Pike hands and some sh!tty FPL hands. And it wasn't cause one was union and the other non.

[faulted]

ONE QUESTION, If the lineman from FPL walk how many Pike crews will cross the line???

[Linemo]

Man I wil repeat Myself the guy was looking for info on a job prospect he didn't want to get in the middle of a pissin match!And if being a scab is paying dues and walking a picket line when your local is on strike is what its about so be it its only YOUR take on it !! One of the biggest problems out there today in our field is these company's that are putting us up against each other they tell us union guys we are expensive and that contractors are cheap {not always true} then the local screams at us that they are untrained sloppy halfwits {same not true} then when you really open your eyes and look hard the contractors are like all of us trying to make a living while trying to do good work while thier outfit is pushing them faster to stay cheaper ? I will also say that I want to do Linework at all levels from reconductoring troubleshooting commercial residential gloving etc! Open up your eyes and look at all of the picture before you condem someone for working for a contractor thats all I was trying to say in the first place !And I dont have an air conditioned truck and dont care if I get one I just want to be a great Lineman end of story

[m_kohner]

hey guys, i appreciate the in put and checked with my BA on friday and down here in my area there is only 1-job calling linemen time to time a substation job ending this month, other than that in the last year no lineman calls and in the works none coming up. he wont switch my ticket. put me in the bucket i can do my job as good as the next, i do it safe and in a very workman like manner except i work real hard and am a fast worker, to get done,down and to the next call or pole. and wear an IBEW sticker on my hard hat, truck, lunch box and an IBEW belt buckle, the organizer said alot of our line hands are salting, the ones who dont wanna go to california. i appreciate all the input and we will see how things go from here, im not one to talk alot of trash but will continue to read all the postings i think you are a great bunch of linemen and everyone has their diffrences if its union/non union to your favorite boots but the lights in america are on so someone is doing something right here.....mike

[spark]

I have a friend that worked for Red for two years, he said it was a good and bad time. He said that he had fun and did alot of neat stuff but they also did a lot of unsafe things. I don't know anything about the other company that is buying them out but they sound like they are pretty safe, depending on the guys that come over from Red, its hard to break a old dog from old habits u know.

be safe

[dbrown20]

The union or non-union thing is always a bone of contention. Like a lot of lineman I started with a non-union contractor and even worked for a non-union utility. There are some super hands on either side. It mostly depends on the individual. I have worked non-union contractor, union contractor, non-union utility and union utility. I have seen hands that were yellow paper hands all the way and not worth a damn, have seen yellow paper hands all the way that were super. The same with non union hands. There's just no way to guarantee a good hand.

Overall the union hand will have a better deal that the non-union. I could cite many examples. One of the most glaring unfair things I have seen is having everybody on a different pay scale. There must be a criteria for paying people equal pay. Just because you've been there longer is no good. The union always pays all journeymen the same scale, regardless of their ability. That's a good thing. Non-union may pay one guy a certain wage and the guy working alongside him with just as much experience may get a lesser pay scale.

Also as human nature being what it is many people will take as much advantage as they can. Letting other people do the work etc. We've all seen them. I have worked with several guys if you were willing to climb ever pole they would let you. Also have worked with guys who wouldn't let you climb ever pole as they always wanted to be fair.

As for non-union vs union. Union is the only way to be. I have been in the trade for 34 years, and have been Union for 27 years. If I were a young man there is no way I would work for Pike or Simpson. If I were the guy who used to be an IBEW electrician but is now a lineman, I would locate a union utility somewhere I wanted to live and try and go to work for them. Everywhere I look they're wanting linemen. dbrown20

[m_kohner]

hey dbrown, is it possible to organize in as a journeyman lineman? i would hate to start over as a grunt, i blew red simpsons test out of the water it was not that hard or im smarter than i give myself credit for...lol, i did well. and the practical test i also did well and climbed my ass off and passed it. the training guy was like damn guy most guys who come in are %&^* ya know and was all happy with me. currently im working with a co-op in south texas and our line super who has been there for 6 years is making$17.00 an hour, in s-texas there are so many people who will do anything for nothing and it is hard for union to compete average journeyman electrician non union scale is $12.50-$14.00 and the average lineman is $14.00 as well, people down here go for it too, the majority of our locals work is industrial and that is because the refinerys want the qualified hands and will pay for it, and when there is any hospital work ( renovations and additions) it is usually union thats it. no union carpenters,brick masons or plumbers down here. sad to say it and im not racisist by no means but the hispanics feel they are doing great at 12-14 an hour, i tried to organize hands but the work aint there for them so why organize.....mike

[topgroove]

Check out the newest equipment you get to use at dead simpson!

[madmax]

swamprat if you had any sense you non -union lineman would join a union and then you could afford to send your little rats to college.any way the way it`s working out right now with utilities contracting out the work to you, I have job security fixing the garbage alot of you poorly trained non- union labor build. Not all non -union lineman suck , there some really good lineman out there only problem is some can not pass a piss test and the rest do not want to put up with the bull from these public utilities.Lineman of all kinds need to unite before there are non!!!!

[cowdog12]

sadmax, haven't you noticed lately that the only way to get on with a utility is by having your ticket and most utilities don't have apprenticeship programs? these guys are being trained by "rats" and then working for utilities. most of them tell me it's like retirement, they don't do any real linework. i worked for RED simpson for 2 yrs, we new trucks, decent pay, no osha recordables(in our yard) only a jacka## for a area manager. you union girls complain about contractors and then complain if you have to do any real work. by the way, NO union lineman has EVER come behind us to fix anything, if we make a mistake we fix it. we have gone behind some fpl crews and fixed their crap.

[dbrown20]

Yes it is possible to go to work for a union co. if you're not a member of the union. It is also possible to go to work out of the hall if they have calls for Lineman and all the union people are working. Happens all the time. Just have enough experience in the trade (usually about 4 years) and you're good to go. You might have to test or whatever. Just call the nearest outside local near you and they should be able to give you plenty of info. dbrown20

[tbone]

Check out the newest equipment you get to use at dead simpson!
That ladder truck must be Pike's equipment because there is no more Red Simpson.

[Sno10]

hey M Kohner. Back to your original post. Now what I know of Red Simpson is that when they came to our line school they told us they would take as many of us that they could handle. Out of about 50 students they had 0 applications put into RS from my line school. We were warned about them from our instructors. I didn't spend alot of time reading this whole thread. It was a waste. But I am going to throw out there what I consider advice. First of all I didn't read this whole thread to figure out how old you are, if your married, or if you have kids which you may have said but couldn't stand the BS going on in here. There are opportunities for apprenticeships out there you just have to be willing to relocate. I have a utility, union apprenticeship. And no Swamp it wasn't "Who I knew" that got it for me. I didn't know a single person that worked for my company or every worked for them or a single person in the state for that matter. It was my ability, knowledge, and experience. Yes I had previous experience in the trade. 2 years to be exact which I was in a non-union apprenticeship at a utility. It was a national recognized apprenticeship and it was complete junk. I learned and could do a heck of alot more after 9 months of line school then I could of with just doing this "rat" apprenticeship by itself. But I did start over from square one and went back to step one. (Wasn't personally satisfied with my previous training and didn't feel I had the knowledge to work on the BIG SH*T instead of distribution.)Now I am not going to brag up the union apprenticeship either not a hell of alot better in my opinion. Where the good stuff is in an apprenticeship is OJT from the jouneyman whether your union or non. My non union OJT was complete junk which can be related to the journeyman. (I am not saying all are sh*t) Now my union OJT is good and the journeyman are great teachers. (not saying all are great just the ones I have worked with). I work with an array of Journeyman. The most, broken physically I can say came from non union contractor. If I were you I would relocate before working for any contractor. Not trying to stir up a hornets nest with that comment but I feel it is true. There is a place for them but just not for me. You have to look at when your 60 years old broke and still have to climb poles because you didn't start a career. They just had good jobs at different companies. Alot of people out there working the lines that don't have much of retirement to speak of. For somebody my age which is 27. Not sure about your age but when I am 57 I am sure Social Security will be something my grand kids read about in a history book. So don't even count that as retirement. Make sure the place you work for has a 401 and a company retirement. Also wouldn't be bad to have some sort of continuation of health benefits. Maybe there are some contractors that have this and a killer retirement that you don't have to work past 60 to retire. Safety is the most important. Take a look if possible or ask for the companys lost time injuries and non lost time injuries. If you ask for the safety statics "injuries per hours worked." Good companies are proud of there safety record and aren't afraid to share it with you. The ones that don't show it are the ones to watch out for. I really doubt red will show you there injury stats. I asked for injury stats in my interview at my current job and that is the most important factor that I was told got me this apprenticeship and job was that. They never had anybody ever ask such a personal safety concisous question before I was told after the fact. What basically I am trying to get across and it is things I took from the journeyman that I work with both union and non union, utility and contractor/construction is to take care of your body and look for a good retirement.

[m_kohner]

that is the kind of answers i was after, and am looking into houstons local either organizing in or taking the apprenticeship. down here in texas is AEP which is a utility company hard to get in too, co-ops which do not pay, and are non union, red simpson and urban electrical services, red does AEP's contrat work and Urban does the co-ops, and thats pretty much all of south texas. so like you say for the good jobs you gotta relocate.

[dbrown20]

Mike, if you have enough experience to make it as a Journeyman, the union will take you in if you can get hired on by a union utility. It's a formality. You might have to take a test but it won't be hard. Maybe some transformer hookups or something.

If you are interested in AEP go to SWEPCO in Texas, Arkansas, or Louisiana. Or PSCO in Oklahoma. They're the only Union co's of this AEP area. In my opinion the former Central Power and Light and West Texas Utilities are not worth a crap. PSO where I work isn't worth a crap, but at least they're Union. All Journeyman draw the same wage, not like those others, where everybody has a different scale. dbrown20

[toptie]

I started line work 25 years ago, with AEP. For some reason we were the only shop in the entire company that was non union, why I don't know. Some of the guys said it was because of the old school guys, I dont know. I was young then and didn't know anything but hard work, in the mountains and valleys of WV., and learning a trade that paid very well and give my family a good living. After a divorce and a year long drunk I lost my job. After that the only work I could get was down south in the Carolinas with the non union contractors. I continued to make a very good living. Benefits cost me more. But long story short, I worked in one town for 16 years with the same company, and the IBEW had a local there, I was never approached by a member nor my co-workers, the union was evidentley interested in all the local factorys and such. Evidentley some body some where along the way was paid off. I'm now working for union shop in NW Ohio and it is f%^&@ worse than the contractor. Go figure?

[m_kohner]

i have been a JIW for a while and worked alot of shops before 911 and thats when i got into line work and let me tell you there are alot of ratty companies who are union dont let one shop give you a bad impression of the IBEW.....mike

[DuFuss]

"Golly" "you" "guys" "use" "a" "lot" "of" "quotes."

I've seen RSI's equipment. Most of it looked new. Pikes equipment looked old. I worked around some Pike people in Arkansas a few years ago and they seemed like nice hard working people. I worked with a guy who used to work for RSI and he said he left because they always had him away from home. What I would think the bad thing about working for pike is that you'd be a number not a name. My boss knows me by my first name. What would be good is that you'd probably have a higher pay scale and more benefits.

For you union guys who think contractors do sloppy work you're wrong. I do pretty work on every job I approach except for storm response work. I then get the peoples lights on as fast and as safe as I can. (Meaning I don't travel 30 miles to get a sleeve, I make do with what I have.) Most coop places we contract for inspect jobs after they are done. If they find that something is wrong then we have to go back and clean up after ourselves.

[hacked off]

i have been looking in the osha web site for accident reports for red simpson. i found some last year that told how much they had been fined for fatal accidents over the years. it was like 10 or 12 millon dollars. this is from the accident report at ocean springs in 2001.
"Red Simpson employs about 1,100 workers, 10 of whom were on the Ocean Springs site to provide general line work for Mississippi Power Company's overhead transmission facilities. OSHA has inspected the company about 20 times since 1986 - 12 times as the result of fatalities due to various causes, including electrocution, being crushed and falling."
this gives you a good ideal what kind of outfit they run.

[CenterPointEX]

"said, California is da place ya ought ta be... so they loaded up da truck N head for Beverly... Swimmin pools... Movie Stars..."

[highliner05]

as far as pike goes i've worked for um for over a year now health, life, dental,eye,dissabilty insurrance i'm just a grunt but i've worked with some damn fine linemen since i started it's been a good company to work for they offered me more on the hour than shaw and williams elect. so i'd have to say at least talk to um about a job.

[WFO]

that is the kind of answers i was after, and am looking into houstons local either organizing in or taking the apprenticeship. down here in texas is AEP which is a utility company hard to get in too, co-ops which do not pay, and are non union, red simpson and urban electrical services, red does AEP's contrat work and Urban does the co-ops, and thats pretty much all of south texas. so like you say for the good jobs you gotta relocate.

Don't know anything about Pike.
Red Simpson has LOTS of accidents and, depending on the crew, the quality of work is marginal sometimes. They also chase storms, so count on not being home for long periods of time.

In the Houston area, Fenway is a good company.

By the way, when you say co-ops don't pay, look around. I've seen Reliants pay scale and, although it is higher than ours, it's not that much higher.
Plus you don't have to work in Houston! Lots to be said about not spending your life on a freeway parked in traffic.

[igloo64]

the so called rat " journeyman " burned up an apprentice here in arizona. Poor kid doesnt have any hands now.

[igloo64]

you are the line god in you own mind. But are still a rat and always will be!

[igloo64]

Dont Worry About That Ever! They Probably Are Sandels Anyway!

[Lnemn's Mom]

Yup,
Pike's a good contractor to work for. If you're in the South east US, and you're worth a shit, check out Pike. Good company, good people, good work ethic, and good safety practices.

My theory on accidents...union or non, is...no matter how good the "company's safety practices are, it's the asshole that doesn't follow the rules, and gets "messed up", that's the problem. So...how does ANY company deal with Stupid?
Talk about dealing with Stupid....... I will have to disagree with Pike being so safety oriented. Pardon me for doing so, maybe that is the case in some areas, but depending on where you work with them, they tend to have a tendency of putting people in positions they shouldn't. When you have an inexperienced foreman telling the crew to make do because they are short a man or two, and that gets someone killed, all the production in the world isn't going to make that foreman sleep good at night, and just in case he isn't having nightmares, Pour me another cup of coffee and I'll double dose my ability to stay awake and haunt the hell out of him.

[unionhand]

Simpson was bought out by Pike man. They've spent the last year or so....cleanin out the Simpson trash. People and equipment. And... are still workin on the last reminants of it. Like I said, Pike's good people, and a good company. Every company's got their drawbacks. I wouldn't hesitate a minute to go to work for Pike. Again, and may. Just be prepared to "shit and get". :-)

Put Unions on Units...:-) :-)

See how They do! :-) :-) OR...even Cost plus!! :-)

#1, Unions wouldn't do either. #2, They can't. Ain't got the mentality. :-)

what a small mind you have swamprat,you have never rolled out of IBEW LU222 have you ???????????????????,Never been with a union contractor ?? Or have you lately been with a union contractor?? Did'nt think so...I have s**t and get as you say and the crew I was on ran over rats and never looked back cleaning thier clock in production and being safe also something you would'nt know about ,whatever makes you feel good,you're probably not even working today as a lineman anyway,you know the saying,the older we get ,,the better I was !! you my man have a small mind

[electric squirrel]

Hey Swamp just how does a non union hand make in your part of the world?

[44kv]

swamp there on you bad man i feel you though, im a rat to you got to do what you got to do!!!!!!!!

[unionhand]

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?t=1983&page=2

I'm most definately not Mr. Brown. Matter of fact, I'm sorta proud of it.

See, here's the deal on Rats. We get hired to come on property, anybodys property, after, in most cases Years of neglect of maintenance in that company. NOT the fault of the Union.
Or...massive new construction that the company just can't keep up with with their workforce. Hundreds of reasons...don't matter. "Have linecrews, will Travel...Now."

They sign contracts with Rat Contractors...usually "unit", sometimes "cost plus", work, which is "shit and get" work. Work Union would hardly EVER sign on to. That's why it's contracted out.
The companys that hire Rats do so because we attack a job with "mob" mentality. "Get it done, and get to the next job". AND, there's Union "Birddogs" followin behind us...checkin our work...Daily.
Again..Not a mentality of Union.

Talk safety all ya want. 1 accident with a Rat contractor...and the Union boys will flaunt it for months.

If all america was Union in Linework....dude, the power would be out.....
sorry, but you know that's the truth in this day and age.

Ya'll Union boys be proud of your job. As I am of mine.

Wow you are good,how can anyone union do what you do? :rolleyes: , Go
to any local hall and talk that trash,go to a rodeo most are union that win or any "cost plus" or "labor units" can be done better by unions, you have been out of your hooks way too long,no shiny spots on them for sure,as far as going back to work ,keep talking, as long as it feels good to you....LOL

[CenterPointEX]

Put Unions on Units...See how They do!... OR...even Cost plus!! #1, Unions wouldn't do either. #2, They can't. Ain't got the mentality. :-) I'm beginning to wonder myself if Swamp is even a lineman... A Tramp; Union or no, knows that thats the way all contractors work. Units and or Cost Plus. The Country Club boys\Utility hands don't have clue about such M.O's... I know I used to be one... and I had no desire to be a contract hand, but now I are one. There is one good thing about Pike buying out Red Simpson... Pike is now organizabe. Red hid from the organizers by making each Line Crew a seperate bussiness enitity. So an organization effort would have to be crew by crew and not one whole company. We just got a Pike hand in our yard, he is working on a white ticket looking to get a real one so he can join in on the benifits of being union.

[CenterPointEX]

my BA says he cant switch my ticket over, 278 dont have many lineman calls he says, down here in s-texas it is all non union line work, only union line work down here local 16 brings in some guys from myers.... mike 713-943-0716 is the number to Local 66 in Houston. There is work for you here.

[matt 1245]

If You Want To Get Into Line Work Stay Away From The Rats,
There Called That For A Reason. Cal-nav. Aprenticeship Is Always Looking For People. We Here In Calf. Have Good Wages Good Work And No Rats. If $40 Sub A Day, Double Time After 8 Hrs, No Rats And Line Work Sounds Good To You Call The J.a.t.c At (951) 685-volt

[igloo64]

Most of them were union at one time but were forced out for one reason or another! They can join our union,all they have to do is test and prove they are journeyman. Come on you guys come be union! Its time you made more money for you and your families!

[PK270]

I have read the comments long enough and have a few questions about yours. 1.You mention about companies being interested in profit, tell me why they would go into business otherwise. Why do you go to work, to make money, would you start a business that doesn't make a profit?

2. You make yourself sound ridiculous when you talk about an air conditioned truck and rodeos. I have spent many years watching linecrews practice for rodeos on company time. Oh yeah, those air conditioned trucks may be a reason it takes 4 hrs for a 4 man crew to replace a connector on an underground tx, or 18 hrs during stormwork to straiten a pole.

3. Quality of union training?? It is all in the person, I have witnessed too many guys come out with union tickets that could not cut it. I will say that there are many that are damn good, it is the quality of the apprentice and the journeyman that takes the time to teach them NOT the union, that makes a good lineman.

I thought unions were here to negotiate benes for quality of work, any little thing does not go your way you talk about a strike. If all the utility lineman went out and actually did some work there would be no need to bring in contractors union or not.

Cant compete with non union contractors and be profitable or safe, BULL, been there done that. It takes EFFORT. That probably isnt in your contract. This aint going to go well for my first post I'm sure.

Probably can tell the lazy wannabees hiding behind brother union, they will be the first to post pissed off. Sorry guys just tired of carrying my "brothers".

[topgroove]

We Don't have Pike on the property After a double fatality a few years ago.Here's a picture of them doing pole top rescue. I hear they do it alot there.

[igloo64]

I agree with some things you are sayn but the union has not taught me to be lazy and anyone who works for me that is dosnt last long. I have paid my due in this trade and have worked all over the west coast. 6o below no wind in alaska to 130 in arizona. All over California and Nevada. Washington and Oregon too. 110 % everyday allday. All the contractors will take me back cause I can make it happen. I dont do rodeos or any of that stuff. I do what I love eaveryday.LINEWORK LINEWORK LINEWORK. BRING IT ON !!!!!!!!!! COME WORK WITH ME AND ALL OF MY NEW EQUIPMENT THAT WAS PAID FOR BY ALL OF OUR HARD MONEY JOBS! PROFITS HELP THE HANDS NOT THE RAT EXECUTIVES.

[matt 1245]

HI PK270 WHY DON'T YOU PUT DOWN YOUR SWITCH SICK 'I MEAN YOUR HAMMER. AND STOP HIDDING I TEXAS. WHERE YOU CALL SINGLE PHASE Y SYSTEM LINE WORK. COME TO CALF. WHERE NOTHING MAKES SENCE, BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW YOUR ELECTICAL THIERY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HELL YOUR LOOKING AT, AND WHY THEY DID IT THAT WAY. BUT YOUR MAKING 38.78 HR. AND AFTER 8hrs.. IT DOUBLE TIME.


IBEW LOCAL 47 OUTSIDE CONTRUCTOIN

[PK270]

Igloo - I am not saying every union guy out there is lazy, that would be ignorant on my part. I had 10 years with power company, so you know as well as I do there are those that hide behind the card to absorb the benefits of YOUR hard work, dont say it dont piss you off. I realy have no experience with union contractors, worked beside them on a few jobs - great experience, so I can't say how they deal with these type of people.

Matt - C'mon dude. hammer - hiding in TX - single phase. So what your saying is anyone who has only worked a Y system is not a lineman, your steppin on some toes there. Not mine, worked outside the country and in many states here, I can hold my own ANYWHERE. BUT I am smart enough to know I can also learn something from everyone regardless of affiliation.

The problem with some people in this business, they think they know it all and are afraid to ask.

[matt 1245]

You Can All Ways Tell The Ones That Know Everything. Thery Are Real Loud In The Morning, And Get Quiter As You Get Closer To The Job.
They Are The Ones That Are Aways Handing You The Tools In The Bucket,in Stead Of The Ones Using Them. They Are Always The Last One Up The Pole, And The First Ones Off.

I Have Never Worked A True Y System. Here In Calf. They Are Years Behind,the Rest Of The World.
And You Know You Have Seen The Hammer

Ps. I'am Still Learning

[PK270]

I said I'd ask so here goes...

Cali - what are you trying to say man?????????

[matt 1245]

What I Am Sying Is, At The End Of The Day. I Know That The Guy Next To Me Has Gone Though An Ibew Approved Apprenticeship.

That Means He Should Know How To Do The Job Safe, Productivity And Put Out A High Quality Product.

I Know I Know; The Rats Have An Apprenticeship Too.
Don't Toutch Two Wires At The Same Time Ok, Now Go Transfer Those Phases.

The Bottom Line Is I Can Work With Better Quality Linemen, Safer Conditions, Better Pay, And If I Have A Problem I Have An Union Hall To Back Me Up.

I Have Know Problem Putting Union Work Up Aginst Rat Work Any Day

Local 47 Outside Construction Were Not Job Scared

[unionhand]

Cute picture groovster. I expect better of you man.
Let the chips fall where they may?

[KingRat]

What I Am Sying Is, At The End Of The Day. I Know That The Guy Next To Me Has Gone Though An Ibew Approved Apprenticeship.

That Means He Should Know How To Do The Job Safe, Productivity And Put Out A High Quality Product.

I Know I Know; The Rats Have An Apprenticeship Too.
Don't Toutch Two Wires At The Same Time Ok, Now Go Transfer Those Phases.

The Bottom Line Is I Can Work With Better Quality Linemen, Safer Conditions, Better Pay, And If I Have A Problem I Have An Union Hall To Back Me Up.

I Have Know Problem Putting Union Work Up Aginst Rat Work Any Day

Local 47 Outside Construction Were Not Job Scared
IBEW APPROVED APPRENTICESHIP,thats a joke- the outside contractors are the ones doing the training, your only going to be as good as the man teaching you. union or non.By the way you talk your enjoying THE CLUB, they got their money's worth when they Bought you.if your a lineman, you have no worries but if your just a slug your right you probably have a bunch of chimps in the hall to back you. i think there is good work being done from both sides, and we all know who is doing MOSTof it. Its like comparing the PYRAMIDS, THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA ETC. to say the LEANING TOWER OF PISA, now that was a union job! Im not scared either :D

[NJlineman55]

This is exactly why this trade is in the position it is in today. The fault lies with both sides. Some of the union guys fucking the company anyway they can, not being productive enough and being carried by their fellow hard workers that care, and the rats who undercut every damn job, put their lineman in unsafe positions with no union backing and pay like shit. This will go on forever and if it were up to the companies they would all hire rats because they are cheaper and thats all these companies care about. If all the lineman were union but their job depended on their work ethic we would have a happy solution, but that would never happen. WE ARE OUR WORST ENEMY!!!!

[Bull Dog]

Just listening to this bull. I beginning to think the ones that come on here and feel the need to tell everone how superior they are probly either aint worth much or they are not real lineman. The best lineman i know dont shoot ther mouths. So get a life.

[Trampbag]

Why don't you take this shit where it belongs --


On another site, or at least to "Politics and BS".


It sure as hell doesn’t belong on "Linework Forum"


Don't ruin this site like the one it replaced. A lot of you will remember what happened there.

[Bull Dog]

Im a proud member of the ibew and my brother before me. Been in the trade long time. Stand by what i said dont stutter! We have close to 75 yrs between the two of us. Ill say the truth too bad if someone out there cant understand. Just sick of the BS

[igloo64]

Rats and cockroaches will always be in the gutters and sewers to eat shit and whatever is left over. They dont have a clue about anything but will keep on thinking they are better and continue too work at lower wages and shitty conditions with 50 year old equiptment. Whatever!!!!!!!!! Welcome to anybody who wants to be in the IBEW. Rats, you just stay in your little shit holes.

[DuFuss]

Doesn't this board have a union section?

[tramp67]

This thread obviously got way off track, from a simple question about working for Pike, to union/non-union bashing. I've run the gamut from non-union inside to getting organized into an inside IBEW Local. I've gone to line school, and went through the IBEW Lineman apprenticeship program - Missouri Valley. There's pros and cons to all of it. Non-union inside, I learned tons of stuff, and got to do a wider variety of work than I probably ever would working for a union inside contractor, but that had a lot to do with the particular contractor I worked for and my desire to learn. The pay left a lot to be desired, management constantly changing rules, etc. Our pay finally started to go up when the local union hall tried to organize the contractor. After I joined the IBEW, I worked for several Inside contractors that weren't worth two cents, in my opinion. But, being an IBEW member, I had the flexibility to go to the hall, sign the books, and go work for a different contractor. One of the great benefits of being union, you work for the hall, not the contractor. Now line school at the technical college, that was a great learning experience. When I got into the Outside apprenticeship with the IBEW, it gave me a huge jump on things. The actual classes in the apprenticeship didn't help me much, and the 4 years' of bookwork was very similar to the 9 months' bookwork I had in lineschool, although that was fulltime schooling. The OJT, on the other hand, varied a lot. I had my share of coworkers that didn't want me to know any more than I needed to know, but most wanted me to learn as much as possible. I also had a few unsafe foremen, fortunately I had learned enough in line school to not do what they told me to do, or I might not be here now. I've seen my wages go up every year in the IBEW, I have a great retirement account and pension for later in life, and most of the guys I work with tell me we have a great health insurance program - I disagree on this one, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I travel all over the country working, by choice. I could be in one area if I wanted to, but I choose not to. I've worked with a great bunch of guys in the IBEW, and have worked around a few not so good hands as well. On storm work, I've worked around some great non union linemen, and have seen some pretty bad ones as well.
The jist of this whole thing is that the majority of us are out here to do the best we can, and do it safe, and go home - wherever that may be - every night. From what I've seen over the years, the IBEW is an organization that is constantly trying to improve safety, working conditions, wages, benefits, and training for linemen. Not just union linemen, but every lineman out there. When we get a new contract with higher wages, better benefits, etc., the nonunion contractors, maybe not tomorrow or even this year, but eventually, will have to follow suit to some degree, or they will lose too many good hands. If we (IBEW) start adopting or pushing for more stringent safety practices, they eventually become adopted by the utilities we work for, or by OSHA, and then it helps everybody. I pay a good amount of union dues every year, but I don't mind because I know what the IBEW does for me. Those of you working non union may or may not realize it, but as the IBEW fights for us Union brothers, the IBEW is also fighting for you. The IBEW's goal is for EVERY lineman to be a IBEW lineman, and for every lineman to be well trained, well paid, have good benefits, and to be safe. The thing is, we have the IBEW looking out for our best interests, if you are working nonunion, it's a lot of every man for himself.

[Trampbag]

You didn’t say one word about Red Simpson or Pike. You’re way off topic!

Try taking this rambling to the BS forum.

[Trampbag]

What? All you want to do is rag on Pike or Red?

Tramp67's post was very cool. A man with some insights and a Brain. A hard thing to find in todays Linework. Union or non.


My point was that this is not a forum to bash union / non-union. There was a topic on this thread and that was how Red Simpson was as a company and was it bought out by Pike. I have never made a comment on this thread until conversation hit a point where the topic was lost and it just became bashing.

I have no first hand knowledge of either company so how can I make fair comment comment?

Before the present format of this site was introduced powerlineman.com became a bashing session so much so that I didn’t visit it for a couple of years. I only recently returned and enjoy it and have no desire what-so-ever to see the site return to by gone days.

So I say - Stay on the topic. Take the bashing bullshit to the Politics and BS forum. I expect off topic subjects there and so am not offended at anything there.


:o

[igloo64]

Still doesnt change a thing! You are what you are and I am what I am.

[m_kohner]

yeah swamp thats what pike has been doing down here, ran into a pike crew last week down here in texas, they have gotten in all new trucks, new foremen, and crews, we watched them for an hour or so they looked pretty good from what i saw, they were putting in a three phase for a sub division, their work turned out nice, will let ya know in a couple weeks if the poles are still straight....lol... there were no signs of red simpson........mike


Simpson was bought out by Pike man. They've spent the last year or so....cleanin out the Simpson trash. People and equipment. And... are still workin on the last reminants of it. Like I said, Pike's good people, and a good company. Every company's got their drawbacks. I wouldn't hesitate a minute to go to work for Pike. Again, and may. Just be prepared to "shit and get". :-)

Put Unions on Units...:-) :-)

See how They do! :-) :-) OR...even Cost plus!! :-)

#1, Unions wouldn't do either. #2, They can't. Ain't got the mentality. :-)

[tramp67]

That's what the point I was trying to get across, Swamprat. Most of us are out here trying to do a good job, be safe, and make a decent living. You can't judge someone by being a union or non-union lineman, same for the contractor. There's good and bad on both sides. I do feel, though, that overall, being union is what's right for me, and the union is not all about "more money for less work", but rather the goal is to keep improving our working conditions and wages. Enough said.

[Line Cowboy]

I think that linework is linework and the sooner we all realize that the better

[Trampbag]

With all your time in the trade, newbie, I’ll listen to all you know. I have 10 or 12 seconds to spare.

[electric squirrel]

Ha Ha Ha,,, Newbie you must be realy new! You havent even learned not to open your mouth on a site ruled by Lineman! You need to hang back in the shadows for a while still buddy! And for your sake dont ever yell up to your J.L. that his washers arent square!!!!! Trust me they'll put up with you longer if you keep your mouth shut! The Lineman will let you know when it time for you to open it.Trust me I've been there and not that long ago! E.S. :cool:

[Line Cowboy]

First of all E.S. I AINT your buddy second of all I am a gnats ass from toppin out and I personally have worked both sides of the fence. not sayin' I done it all or for that matter that I aint got a lot to learn but for me I agree with Swamprat. Just because yer union don't make you any better than the RAT who's bustin his hump to get the lights on. get pissed at me I don't care but its still LINEWORK and that is what is important

[matt 1245]

YOU RATS MAY CALL YOUR SELFS LINEMEN BUT YOUR NOT "JOURNEYMEN LINEMEN

[catfish]

i have been a lineman since 1973. 25 years non-union and the last eight union, and i can see very little difference in the quality or safety in the work done . the biggest difference is in the quantity of work done. contractors have our ass kicked on this one. i like the money and the retirement but i sure miss the swagger.

[Orgnizdlbr]

i have been a lineman since 1973. 25 years non-union and the last eight union, and i can see very little difference in the quality or safety in the work done . the biggest difference is in the quantity of work done. contractors have our ass kicked on this one. i like the money and the retirement but i sure miss the swagger.

What sector Union? Utility, COOP, Muni, construction? Big difference fish...

[NJlineman55]

Swagger from doing more work for less money...yeah I would miss that too...lol

[electric squirrel]

That aint a "swagger" its a limp, from broke down body parts from having to jump through your ass all day long ! WHY, WHY ,WHY would you want to do a job that could possible kill you and make your family suffer a huge loss, for crappy wages and crappy conditions? Union or non Union, go ahead and ask yourself the question,,,,,,,, seems the argument will always be there( obviously look at all the previous post) Just think about it , if your such a great lineman, why would you sell your skills out for substandard pay? The way I see it is the RATS get mad because they think the Union guys are bagging on 'em because they dont have the skills or the training.The RATS say the Union guys are fat and lazy.I can say from experience that the Union guys work thier ass's off and STAND UP for themselves when it comes to working conditions. Matt 1245 just pulled a 30 hr car hit pole job ,then went and did two 32 hr shifts for a wind storm, all in the space of a week and a half.He isnt going to stand for someone telling him he is only getting paid time and a half or not getting paid for all those meals he didnt get to eat because he was busy getting the lights on! Do you RAT hands get have a Foreman tell that tells you keep working while your belly is growling and the company is making a killing off you ,or do you have a CONTRACT that says in writting that you will get to eat a warm meal or you will be compensated for it? I think you are realy a glutton for punishment or not so bright , if you want to work for some outfit that isnt willing to pay a Lineman what he's worth! Yeah, we are doing the same job,but guys who have training and a ticket can go anywhere, if they dont agree with the way things are run! The RATS can either put up with it or scurry to a place that might be better.

Newbie,I guess you got pretty thin skin, cuz I got you worked up pretty easy.I am just a gnats ass from toppin' out too! I too have walked both sides of the fence, actualy three sides, rat ,Union ,contactor and power company.I dont know it all ,I admit that right off the bat! I've seen a lot, but learn something new everyday! I think you got me wrong but thats what ok.I just hope you top out with all your fingers and toes!

I do know that if you are working RAT, you realy, realy, are selling yourself short! All of you!!!!!! I know that last year I made almost 130 thousand and thats ape wages! Why wouldnt a J.L. want to make that and more . I didnt slave away or have to go without.I worked two snowstorms and one fire and did a few monthes of 7 days a week. I got paid fair wages ,d.t. after 8, per diem for showing up,got food brought to me by the GF,slept in NICE hotels. All cause I work for companys that agree to a CONTRACT.All you RATS think about that! If your as good as you say you are then, belly up to the bar and lay your skills on the line......E.S.

[unionhand]

That aint a "swagger" its a limp, from broke down body parts from having to jump through your ass all day long ! WHY, WHY ,WHY would you want to do a job that could possible kill you and make your family suffer a huge loss, for crappy wages and crappy conditions? Union or non Union, go ahead and ask yourself the question,,,,,,,, seems the argument will always be there( obviously look at all the previous post) Just think about it , if your such a great lineman, why would you sell your skills out for substandard pay? The way I see it is the RATS get mad because they think the Union guys are bagging on 'em because they dont have the skills or the training.The RATS say the Union guys are fat and lazy.I can say from experience that the Union guys work thier ass's off and STAND UP for themselves when it comes to working conditions. Matt 1245 just pulled a 30 hr car hit pole job ,then went and did two 32 hr shifts for a wind storm, all in the space of a week and a half.He isnt going to stand for someone telling him he is only getting paid time and a half or not getting paid for all those meals he didnt get to eat because he was busy getting the lights on! Do you RAT hands get have a Foreman tell that tells you keep working while your belly is growling and the company is making a killing off you ,or do you have a CONTRACT that says in writting that you will get to eat a warm meal or you will be compensated for it? I think you are realy a glutton for punishment or not so bright , if you want to work for some outfit that isnt willing to pay a Lineman what he's worth! Yeah, we are doing the same job,but guys who have training and a ticket can go anywhere, if they dont agree with the way things are run! The RATS can either put up with it or scurry to a place that might be better.

Newbie,I guess you got pretty thin skin, cuz I got you worked up pretty easy.I am just a gnats ass from toppin' out too! I too have walked both sides of the fence, actualy three sides, rat ,Union ,contactor and power company.I dont know it all ,I admit that right off the bat! I've seen a lot, but learn something new everyday! I think you got me wrong but thats what ok.I just hope you top out with all your fingers and toes!

I do know that if you are working RAT, you realy, realy, are selling yourself short! All of you!!!!!! I know that last year I made almost 130 thousand and thats ape wages! Why wouldnt a J.L. want to make that and more . I didnt slave away or have to go without.I worked two snowstorms and one fire and did a few monthes of 7 days a week. I got paid fair wages ,d.t. after 8, per diem for showing up,got food brought to me by the GF,slept in NICE hotels. All cause I work for companys that agree to a CONTRACT.All you RATS think about that! If your as good as you say you are then, belly up to the bar and lay your skills on the line......E.S.


You make more sense than alot of tramps I have worked with in the past.....you have it figured out.................fair days wage for fair days work they used to say when I started......Go Union IBEW

[NJlineman55]

Amen brother, I couldn't have said it better myself!! Well done!!

[44kv]

pike may be alright other places but dont go to va! its all unit work on aep and its all mountian! Every pole hole you dig will be rock and you will more than likely have to hand dig it. They glove 7200 off wood to.and I heard they stopped matching 401k.

[Line Cowboy]

sorry I snapped at You E.S. lot more to me than the union non-union thing personally i been treated better by the rats I've worked for than the union contractors.But thats just me. My skin is thin rihgt now and that aint yer fault. I do appologise for bein short . I do respect ANY man that can work in this trade and that is how I feel NO APPOLOGIES for that. No matter what stay safe and watch eachother's backs. Take care gentlemen untill next time.
Newbie

[igloo64]

Always do a days work for a days pay! Be safe and have fun doing it! :cool:

[salizaar1]

Swamprat

I have worked rat, and am now union proud! The union has done a lot for me, so get your facts straight!

1. FREE HEALTH INSURANCE....WITH A 300 DEDUCTIBLE! THATS A 125.00 PAY RAISE PER WEEK FOR YOU PIKE BOYS RIGHT THERE!
2. IN MY LOCAL THEY MATCH 4.25 PER HOUR INTO RETIRMENT...THATS ABOUT 11%...DOES PIKE OR ANY RATS DO THAT?...ANOTHER PAY RAISE OF 175.00 PER WEEK FOR THE UNION BOYS!
3. PROTECTION...WHEN I WORKED RAT, A LINEMAN GOT HURT ON THE JOB AND THEY FIRED HIM AS SOON AS HE CAME BACK, I MEAN THAT DAY! THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN ON UNION JOBS!
4. OVERTIME-ALWAYS DOUBLE TIME AND TIME AND A HALF ON STORMS....HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU GET DOUBLETIME WITH PIKE? NONE? I THOUGHT SO!HOW MANY TIMES DID THEY WORK YOU 40 HRS BEFORE YOU GOT ANY OVERTIME ON STORM? ALWAYS...THOUGHT SO...
WE DON'T ROLL FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN 1.5 AND 2.0 THE "WHOLE " TIME WE ARE GONE...I HAVE NEVER RECIEVED STRAIGHT TIME ON STORM WITH THE UNION...JUST DON'T HAPPEN!... :eek:
5. WE HAVE A CONTRACT! THEY HAVE TO PLAY BY THE RULES...OR PAY, SO WE DON'T GET ****ED LIKE YA'LL DO! :D

OH, AND THE COFFEE BREAKS, THAY ARE THE WALK FROM THE POLE WE JUST FINISHED WITH PRIDE...TO THE NEXT ONE...AND THE NEXT...

I HAVE WORKED FOR PIKE, AND THEY ARE ONE OF THE SHITIEST CONTRACTORS OUT THERE...AND SEVERAL OTHER RATS...NEVER AGAIN!
UNION PRIDE...CHECK OUT THE FACTS BEFORE YOU START SHIT...YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH THE FACTS...

PS I bet you used to be part of SELCAT, and washed out...that's why your bitter on the union, you couldn't make it as UNION...so you went where you could make it...in the sewer among the RATS!


HAVE A NICE DAY! :)









And where from do you speak God person. Mr. CP?

This is the same trival BS I have heard for years..from Union boys like you.

"Rats are shit, they kill people, they ain't got a training program."

That's complete Crap, put out by Union people like you, to make the Union sound like "more than it is".

You can't GET a job as an apprentice with a Union now days. There ain't no Apprentice jobs. Unions don't hire apprentices...Company's do. Unions and Jobs are all politics. It's "who ya know", not "who ya are".

I'll tell ya somethin else man...

Contractors...Union and Non, are takin over the Line business.

Talk all your safety bullshit, It costs alot less to bring in an apprentice who has worked 2-3 years with a rat contractor, and put him in a Union apprentice program.

Check it out man. I personally raised 4 app's with a Rat contractor, and check it out...they are all but one, Union LINEMEN, workin for one of the major Union Utilities here in Central Florida. They're all 23-24 years old. The last one will be a Lineman next year.

Walkin in off the street...wantin to be a Union apprentice Lineman...? Dream on.

If it weren't for Rat contractors...there wouldn't BE any Linemen. Union apprentices, heh, heh, heh....

When a Rat apprentice comes into a Union job...the first thing they learn is coffee breaks, Lunch breaks, and basically all the "things" they got goin for them "between" the JOB.

Trust me, I've had my X apprentices who've made the change...TELL me the difference. They LOVE it!! They also say they ain't doin shit in real Linework.

"Whoops"!
"Time to take a break".

[west coast hand]

Ha swamp rat, why do you think you rat buddys went to union because it pays better, better benifits and retirement. why do you think they pay a rat hand in florida 20 or 25 bucks an hour and a union hand makes 30 bucks it clear to me union hand means BETTER TRAINED it a fact you can say what you won't and as for coffee breaks and that shit maybe at the utilites but not where i am contract hand and 100% UNION HAND AND UNION TRAINED and can do as much if not more work then you rats can do and still go home with all my fingers and toes???

[west coast hand]

By The Way If Your A Rat Lineman Your Not A Journeyman Lineman Thats What It Says On A Union Linemans Ticket.

[BigClive]

By The Way If Your A Rat Lineman Your Not A Journeyman Lineman Thats What It Says On A Union Linemans Ticket.

Jeez! Who needs greedy corporates when the union seems to be full of disgruntled back-stabbers. :rolleyes:

[returntotheeve]

i have been a lineman since 1973. 25 years non-union and the last eight union, and i can see very little difference in the quality or safety in the work done . the biggest difference is in the quantity of work done. contractors have our ass kicked on this one. i like the money and the retirement but i sure miss the swagger.
My kids never ate swagger. As far as quantity of work all I can say is no one here EVER worked anyplace in linework where the foreman said you did enough. Union or nonunion.

[mainline]

I know someone will probably freak out on me about this, but we union guys should stop the rat BS. It isn't the lineman, it is the company they work for that is the problem. Our local organizer made a good point recently. It is all of our jobs to organize. How are you going to encourage people to stick their neck out and attempt to organize a non-union shop if you treat them like crap. These guys have families too. I know they often times undercut us on wages, and some of them aren't very well trained, but abusing them won't change that. Many non-union lineman are good lineman, we should explain the benefits of being a brother to them so they join us and make us stronger, because there is strength in numbers.

[Orgnizdlbr]

That's what I been sayin all along. "It's all Linework man". I don't know why the Union guys hate non union guys so much. It's all "interesting".:p

Non Union Contractors, are the "Farm Teams" for future Union Lineworkers.

But I hear ya......:D The "Shit and get, Get er done".... is gone from linework, when ya go union. So is alot of the "Fun" of Linework. It's just a fuc%in job.

But hay....That's why they pay ya the extra bucks, right?:D

There comes a time, when ya just....suck it up, and "go with the flow"....and suck up the bennies.

That's EXACTLY what I've heard from my Rat brothers, who have gone union.
And ya know what?

They've even told me....They're ashamed, but they have to do it to make more money for their family. But....It ain't "Linework".

Go ahead....Trash me. I'm use to it. Ya ain't gonna change me.
I'm a Rat Contractor, and god damn proud of it.



I dont hate non-union guys Swamp, but as Ive said to you many times, I wish all Lineman were union......

[Orgnizdlbr]

I know someone will probably freak out on me about this, but we union guys should stop the rat BS. It isn't the lineman, it is the company they work for that is the problem. Our local organizer made a good point recently. It is all of our jobs to organize. How are you going to encourage people to stick their neck out and attempt to organize a non-union shop if you treat them like crap. These guys have families too. I know they often times undercut us on wages, and some of them aren't very well trained, but abusing them won't change that. Many non-union lineman are good lineman, we should explain the benefits of being a brother to them so they join us and make us stronger, because there is strength in numbers.

Well said Mainline, it doesnt make sense to me to rag on or otherwise disparage brothers in the trade, and then expect to rationally explain to them the benefits of being in a union......

[johnbellamy]

I know someone will probably freak out on me about this, but we union guys should stop the rat BS. It isn't the lineman, it is the company they work for that is the problem. Our local organizer made a good point recently. It is all of our jobs to organize. How are you going to encourage people to stick their neck out and attempt to organize a non-union shop if you treat them like crap. These guys have families too. I know they often times undercut us on wages, and some of them aren't very well trained, but abusing them won't change that. Many non-union lineman are good lineman, we should explain the benefits of being a brother to them so they join us and make us stronger, because there is strength in numbers.

The reality is Rats do not want to organize. They like the way things are.

You are right the owners of Rat outfits make tons of money by underbidding Union labor. You also know how they can accomplish this , by paying there workers less, not have to spend money on training there workers, They take a guy with some traning, put him in a bucket and say see your a lineman, these are guys who have either washed out or did not test well for the Union Jatc.

It is a fast track for them, they do not have to earn the right thru experiance or senority. Swamprat you especially do not have the right to question anybody on this board about how many post they have or there profile, This is not SWAMPRAT .COM. So before you question people, Think twice, and I have read your "INSIGHT" on this board, powerful stuff "DUDE".

Now I guess rats like to work for less money, and benifits, they have had how many years to organize to make a better living for there families, but they choose not too why. Because it is easier to take the short way and cut there own deals, not having to answer to a BROTHERHOOD like the IBEW. It is also my opinion that they enjoy taking jobs away from IBEW journeyman lineman who by the way also have families, as there own little way of saying **** you union hands, you did'nt want me well how do like me now. So If you don't think rats have heard that they should organize before, well I guess your living in that fantasy world where everybody gets along, and Rats and UNION hands get along. Like I said before "THEY CHOOSE NOT TO". They like it the way it is, Oh they will do it with a smile on there face, But they are taking Union jobs every chance they get.


So sympathize if you want, But think about it when your Union Brothers are out of work.

John Bellamy Union Journeyman and Damn Proud of it.

[Praim]

That's what I been sayin all along. "It's all Linework man". I don't know why the Union guys hate non union guys so much. It's all "interesting".:p

Non Union Contractors, are the "Farm Teams" for future Union Lineworkers.

But I hear ya......:D The "Shit and get, Get er done".... is gone from linework, when ya go union. So is alot of the "Fun" of Linework. It's just a fuc%in job.

But hay....That's why they pay ya the extra bucks, right?:D

There comes a time, when ya just....suck it up, and "go with the flow"....and suck up the bennies.

That's EXACTLY what I've heard from my Rat brothers, who have gone union.
And ya know what?

They've even told me....They're ashamed, but they have to do it to make more money for their family. But....It ain't "Linework".

Go ahead....Trash me. I'm use to it. Ya ain't gonna change me.
I'm a Rat Contractor, and god damn proud of it.


I am not sure I understand your point. But then again I am only a 4th step app.
My local has over 200 app's. almost all of them working.
And where i work we shit and get every day. We were at the bar by 3:00 today.
I love this job and will never do anything else.

[johnbellamy]

Welcome back johnny b.:p

I knew ya couldn't stay away.

It's a good thing ya didn't "swear on somebodys life" you'd never post on this site again. They'd sure as shit be dead now.:D

I got the right to say any damn thing I want here my man. Just like you do.

So, is mr. slaizar your apprentice that posted that cute post? Sure sounded like he'd been schooled by you.:p

I thought rats didn't have senority, I thought people could say what they want on this board, so I wonder why the moderator pulled my thread "Trail boss callin swamprat"?

I couldn't stay away and let you go on and on with your with your "COOL" insight "DUDE" How could anyone stay away from what kind of hooks or boots the great proud rat wares, or how you would handle a beef with a journeyman, or how about raking a pole, or pole gains, wow so much knowledge and "INSIGHT".

Or my personal favorite, on how rats are such hard chargers, and Union hands are soft and lazy, wow what a bunch of "INSIGHTFUL BULLSHIT"


So proud rat, enlightin me with some of your "INSIGHTFUL BULLSHIT" on why rats who work so hard and are so good at what they do, do it for so much less? You are so good and work so hard why aren't you getting payed more than us lazy good for nothin Union hands? Hmmm? Let me help you out a bit. Oh I think a "INSIGHTFUL RAT" like yourself already knows the answer to that.

So proud rat, keep trying to sell your "INSIGHTFUL BULLSHIT" to any rat sympathizing wannabe you want. And I will be hear to give my opinion if the "MODERATOR" allows it on your powerful "INSIGHTFUL BULLSHIT".

Question proud rat, why don't you organize? Let everybody on this board know why rats don't organize, and you can't blame the Union for your ratty ways, enlighten us all proud rat.

Hear is a little insight from me to guys like necpoletop. You better start asking the lineman you are working with these questions you know the guys training your ass. Not come hear than go second guess there ass, or your in for a real ass whoopin.

[johnbellamy]

You want some "Insightful Bullshit" johnny b?

How bout this.

"I", unlike your hypocrital ass, MEAN what I say.

And I'm sayin,.... this is my last post to you johnny boy.

So, you just "follow me around" boy, and read my posts like a stalker, and trash me anytime ya want. I'm flattered.:D

You're a waste of time, and I won't disrespect this board anymore with posts to your trivial trash comments to me, just cause you got a hard on for my RAT Ass.

You're the perfect persona of why I'm not interested in bein in the Union. There's not many bad seeds like you in the Union, but a guy like you is a real detriment to Union.

You work safe johnny boy.....:cool:

That didn't answer my question. Because of guy's like me? You know is wish you would answer the so guy's like organizer, and others would quite bangin that same old drum. Rat bashing? Thats what I keep hearing. Well quite crying and tells us all why you don't organize. I don't get guys like organizer who say they are Union, knowing that rat outfits take Union jobs, put good Union members, family men out of work, and they are ok with it. Like I said before this isn't anything new, the problem has always been there, since the Union was started.

So proud rat you have said you would never say a bad word about the Union, I think you need to read your posts, and I think you can even see what a fraud you are. So again I will look forward to how you get out of answering my question proud rat.

[Orgnizdlbr]

That didn't answer my question. Because of guy's like me? You know is wish you would answer the so guy's like organizer, and others would quite bangin that same old drum. Rat bashing? Thats what I keep hearing. Well quite crying and tells us all why you don't organize. I don't get guys like organizer who say they are Union, knowing that rat outfits take Union jobs, put good Union members, family men out of work, and they are ok with it. Like I said before this isn't anything new, the problem has always been there, since the Union was started.

So proud rat you have said you would never say a bad word about the Union, I think you need to read your posts, and I think you can even see what a fraud you are. So again I will look forward to how you get out of answering my question proud rat.


I never said organizing non union lineman would be easy. There are non union guys who prefer to remain that way. The non union companies are dead set against any organizing campaigns and spend big bucks hiring union avoidance firms who pull out all of the stops in order to assist the employers where campaigns have begun. Never the less, it is incumbent on every IBEW lineman to communicate with their non union counterparts to enlighten them on the benefits of organizing. Like I said, not all non union guys want to organize, but many do, if you know anything about the Wagner act, you know it takes only a simple majority to win in an organizing campaign.

Cast all the aspersions on non union guys you want, but do you think that enhances your position? Why not, for the sake of arguement, take a different approach with the non union guys and show them how union is better?

You need to seperate the worker from the employer and direct the anger you have in the proper direction. I hate Rat owners, they employ many dispicable tactics to avoid a unionized workforce, some of those tactics are overt, some are not. They use misinformation, fear tactics, economic blackmail and many other means to avoid unions, most btw, are illegal.

Do rat contractors drive down the wage for all of us, of course. But I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of union density, if you're not you should be. When you want to run down the non union sector, its the employer is who you target, not the worker. Those non union guys are just trying to feed their families John, just like you and me. Many would be proud to be members of the IBEW, so when you see and talk to them, let them know why union is better for the workingman and resist calling them names.

If you are interested, pick up a copy of "Confessions of a Union Buster" by Martin J. Levitt. It may give you a different perspective on those non union guys out there who would love to be organized, it just might show you what thy're up against.

[mainline]

Organizedlabor, you are right on. I think some parts of this country are very union which is excellent. Some of us, however, work in states where it is union in the utilities, but non-union in the contract ranks. It takes a lot of guts to be the first guy to sign a card when the only places you have to go are other non-union contractors, and they talk. This is the only way some guys can stay in state and do linework. We are starting to get a union contractor presence now, which is great, but the work is scattered and inconsistent. So to all of you out there who do nothing but shit on the non-union guys give them a break, and swamp I know what your saying there are lazy union workers, but I have also known plenty of sloppy, lazy, and poorly trained non-union personnel. It isn't always black and white, and it isn't always easy.

[johnbellamy]

Organizedlabor, you are right on. I think some parts of this country are very union which is excellent. Some of us, however, work in states where it is union in the utilities, but non-union in the contract ranks. It takes a lot of guts to be the first guy to sign a card when the only places you have to go are other non-union contractors, and they talk. This is the only way some guys can stay in state and do linework. We are starting to get a union contractor presence now, which is great, but the work is scattered and inconsistent. So to all of you out there who do nothing but shit on the non-union guys give them a break, and swamp I know what your saying there are lazy union workers, but I have also known plenty of sloppy, lazy, and poorly trained non-union personnel. It isn't always black and white, and it isn't always easy.

You guys can blame the rat owners, but it is the rat workers that do not organize. They do not have the guts to organize, what does that tell you about what kind of "men" they are? Now my focus when I started posting on this site was to organize Union Journeyman lineman, because that is what I care about, the linemans ability to negotiate for themselves, the "rat bashing" started when they started getting wiseass with me, read the whole thread.

Now I understand that there are some good rat lineman. Most of these guys are payed better then others they work with. They benifit by cutting there own deals. So they have the talent to work Union but choose not to. A guys got to work right? Thats what I keep hearing from you. So it is ok with you guys that rat lineman take jobs away from Union hands, but don't blame them for not organizing, blame the rat owners. I don't buy it. You have to know that when Unions were organized those few sure had the guts to do it, some lost there lives for better working conditions not just in linework but all sorts of trades, so reap the benifits of there courage and honor them by sypathizing with rat workers, I am sure they will understand.

Now organizer quit making excuses for them, and start asking them why they won't organize, like you said, they keep union lineman wages down right, so quit talking or preaching solidarity to them, they have heard it for decades, and be sure to wave to the rats on your way to the unemployment line, I am sure they will listen to you. "SOLIDARITY"

[Orgnizdlbr]

You guys can blame the rat owners, but it is the rat workers that do not organize. They do not have the guts to organize, what does that tell you about what kind of "men" they are? Now my focus when I started posting on this site was to organize Union Journeyman lineman, because that is what I care about, the linemans ability to negotiate for themselves, the "rat bashing" started when they started getting wiseass with me, read the whole thread.

Now I understand that there are some good rat lineman. Most of these guys are payed better then others they work with. They benifit by cutting there own deals. So they have the talent to work Union but choose not to. A guys got to work right? Thats what I keep hearing from you. So it is ok with you guys that rat lineman take jobs away from Union hands, but don't blame them for not organizing, blame the rat owners. I don't buy it. You have to know that when Unions were organized those few sure had the guts to do it, some lost there lives for better working conditions not just in linework but all sorts of trades, so reap the benifits of there courage and honor them by sypathizing with rat workers, I am sure they will understand.

Now organizer quit making excuses for them, and start asking them why they won't organize, like you said, they keep union lineman wages down right, so quit talking or preaching solidarity to them, they have heard it for decades, and be sure to wave to the rats on your way to the unemployment line, I am sure they will listen to you. "SOLIDARITY"

First and foremost, I am not an organizer. You have your opinion, I have mine, I dont think you enhance your position or that of the IBEW's by bashing non union guys. Would you join an organization that some members who belonged to ran you down and called you a Rat f****r? I think not. If you're intention is to organize all journeymen lineman, good for you, I applaud and admire that. I just think that casting aspersions on someone you want to join your organization is off base.

[johnbellamy]

First and foremost, I am not an organizer. You have your opinion, I have mine, I dont think you enhance your position or that of the IBEW's by bashing non union guys. Would you join an organization that some members who belonged to ran you down and called you a Rat f****r? I think not. If you're intention is to organize all journeymen lineman, good for you, I applaud and admire that. I just think that casting aspersions on someone you want to join your organization is off base.

Would I join an organization that payed me better, trained better, had better working conditions, better retirement, you bet your ass I would, would I stay away because someone treated bad, hell no I wouldn't, I would jam the work down there throat, better myself, my familes well being.

Would I take another mans job for less money, and benifits, Hell no I wouldn't. Would I run scared if someone threatend me for organizing, hell no I wouldn't. Would I break down somebodys elses working conditions, no I would not.

Rats know where I stand, I know where they stand. If a rat hires on and wants to be Union. I don't have a problem with it, as long as they start an Ibew app. program, earn there ticket . Pay there dues. Not just challenge some written test. If he knows what he is doing, the hands can always move them ahead steps, but what is three or four years of training for a fourty year career?

So I know we don't agree on things, so OK. This is just my opinion.

[Orgnizdlbr]

So I know we don't agree on things, so OK. This is just my opinion.

Truer words were never spoken..........

[neil macgregor]

what you guys call union we call board boys and rats are contractors
generally board boys do nothing and get paid peanuts contractors
work like mad men and get paid 3-4 timeswhat the board boys get
contractors like myself dont have company pensions but this is changing these days
most board boys if not all would be in a union im not im not in one but would gladly join if it actually did anything usefull for me
so i guess it,s the same over here as across there if your in a union your a lazy git cause you get paid feck all and if your a contractor you wrk like hell
and get no pension:)

[BigClive]

Uh oh. That's going to go down well... :rolleyes:

I'll just mention that the UK unions are not anything remotely like the USA unions. Here they used to just represent the workers if a wage or work-related conflict arose. They don't get involved in handing out work or anything else.

In the old days it used to be the EETPU which was an entirely technical union that had bite. Since then it's repeatedly re-formed into a general mish-mash union called AMICUS which seems to be too heavily influenced by the very organisations it was designed to protect against to be of any use.

As far as pensions goes. Whether you're in a company or a contractor you might as well assume there's going to be no pension. It's work-'til-you-die these days.

Oh Neil... Look at that council tax thing that came through the door from Glasgow council recently. See the big grey chunk that occupies a third of the chart and is marked "social work"? That 450 million pounds ($900m) was your pension. As you can see it's been handed out to the work-shy scum and their lawyers instead.

(And I don't benefit from the other third marked "education" either.)

[neil macgregor]

Uh oh. That's going to go down well... :rolleyes:

I'll just mention that the UK unions are not anything remotely like the USA unions. Here they used to just represent the workers if a wage or work-related conflict arose. They don't get involved in handing out work or anything else.

In the old days it used to be the EETPU which was an entirely technical union that had bite. Since then it's repeatedly re-formed into a general mish-mash union called AMICUS which seems to be too heavily influenced by the very organisations it was designed to protect against to be of any use.

As far as pensions goes. Whether you're in a company or a contractor you might as well assume there's going to be no pension. It's work-'til-you-die these days.

Oh Neil... Look at that council tax thing that came through the door from Glasgow council recently. See the big grey chunk that occupies a third of the chart and is marked "social work"? That 450 million pounds ($900m) was your pension. As you can see it's been handed out to the work-shy scum and their lawyers instead.

(And I don't benefit from the other third marked "education" either.)

yes thats true will give you that one clive must admit board boys are better trained than most contractors but their still lazy gits