stray voltage

[graybeard]

The call was for a customer who was getting a shock every time they used the shower. We have alot of rural lines in our service area. Most stray voltage calls seam to be out in the country. Anyway the last one we had to find we ended up dumping the whole tap and then picking up one tub at a time. It ended up being a well pump at a differnt farm. Most of those calls are because livestock wouldn't drink because they get a shock. Farmers are kind of cheap and we have to go and change tubs and arresters and go back and add a grnd to every pole instead of the normal 4 per mile. Then thy will finally get an elect. to fix their stuff.

[PA BEN]

Had a dim lights call. Voltage was fine but the service had old connectors so we replaced them at the house and transformer. This didn't fix the problem so we opened the customers panel and the neutral buss was lose, pushed it with a screwdriver and the lights would get bright. Tighten the lug and all was good. They said it all started when the water Dept. changed out their water meter and steel water line and replaced it with a plastic water line. The water line was carrying the house's natural. It's a wonder the water Dog that replaced it didn't get between the natural and get killed.:(

[Orgnizdlbr]

Had a dim lights call. Voltage was fine but the service had old connectors so we replaced them at the house and transformer. This didn't fix the problem so we opened the customers panel and the neutral buss was lose, pushed it with a screwdriver and the lights would get bright. Tighten the lug and all was good. They said it all started when the water Dept. changed out their water meter and steel water line and replaced it with a plastic water line. The water line was carrying the house's natural. It's a wonder the water Dog that replaced it didn't get between the natural and get killed.:(

We had a city worker killed here about 20 years ago when he cut a water service in half..........

[BigClive]

With the progressive (?) move to plastic pipe here, a common part of the plumbers toolkit is a bit of earth wire with two beefy crocodile clips on it to shunt out the area you're working on in case the pipe is carrying current.

Pipe bonding requirements are quite strict here too. In the case of showers or sinks the hot and cold pipes are bonded together locally to ensure no potential can exist between them.

[Bull Dog]

theres no such thing as strayvoltage right?

[JAKE]

we have hell with it round here. lots of single phase dairys and like said above theese farmers and dairymen think there all electricians. we ran across one a while back there was stray voltage in the dairy barn and we found out it was a plug with reverse polarity with a radio plugged in it.

we have run across improperly grounded water wells reaking havoc too. we have been using ronk blockers on alot of places that we have had a problem with stray voltage.

a good one for dairymen electricians had a 480 open delta water well at a dairy and they didnt have the disconnect grounded and he left burned finger prints on the disconnect when that water well went bad!! he was lucky all he got was the crap shocked out of him and left some fingerprints. well we changed that bank out to a 277/480 so it would be a bit safer and he hired an electrician after that one!!

[BigClive]

these farmers and dairymen think there all electricians.

Good to see the farming industry is consistent around the world too. :rolleyes:

[Special ED]

Back in Louisville,KY we would get calls all the time for energized water meters but mostly in the older parts of town where the neutral from the customers base would be bonded to the water line as well as the main line neutral. Never failed to be loose neutral connections. A load cone worked wonders on those calls but most were right at the bus.

[australiantroubleman]

Same problems down here too farmers dont seem to like hiring anyone .

Reverse polarities , no grounds, bodgie wiring and when you get there its always the companies problem in their minds.

Generators are the latest problems they are cheap theses days and the ole farmers love hooking them up backward through outlets .

Seen lots of livestock killed with only a small amount of stray voltage horses in particular die quickly.

[Squizzy]

Its the step potential that gets the live stock with the distance betwwen their legs they get it in a big way. Farmers and their generators are a pian in the a$$ as they often will use a suicide lead to feed up their property through a GPO and not turn off the main switch or even bother to have a change over switch and they are blissfully unaware that they are backfeeding lines....

[Bull Dog]

Have to agree farmers hate to call an electrician. A few times I've been out on a farm out and had to rebuild the whole on farm system to get them going. Usually it happens when they are very busy. I found one were two 200a mains were wired in series. He thought he had a 400a hook up. I love the look on there faces when I informed them they need an electrician. Usually they say I've got cows to milk or feed to put up. I would tell them you should have done this long ago and this wouldn't happen. Most farmers are very independent and don't like to be told they must do something. There are good farmers too but I guess trouble men are more likely to meet the bad ones.

[linemansmilestones]

It is great to see all these stories and comments from T-Men. This information in very valuable for future t-men, and not taught in schools.

When I responded to a high/low voltage, my first response was to check the neutral connections in the panel. Copper getting wet creates a green residue at connections. Aluminum creates a dust, as it breaks down. Underground services have a little screw holding the neutral lug to the panel, and is either loose or has burned off.

We had a Beast of Burden to test the service on our side, and it is a great tool. It will tell you where to look for the problem.

A ground on houses and farms was always a water pipe. Now these pipes are rusted and not creating a good ground, and that is why the code for grounding a service has changed.
T-men need to be careful about bad grounds, so they do not come in series when they are working these problems.

T-man comments and stories are a wealth to the safety side of helping new t-men and women.

[markwho]

It is nice to see the new for forum. It is better than just reading the trouble calls that are posted, though some were very interesting to say the least.
I work trouble with another lineman during day time hours. We are not full fledged t-men working alone. All after hours trouble calls go to the call out list that includes lineman and crew leaders alike. We have the wording in our contract but our employer never implemented it as of yet.
We use the Beast of Burden all the time unless the problem is obvious. We get quite a few calls for blinking lights and so on. It usually works pretty good on picking up bad neutrals, but you really need to watch the voltage differences. When measuring the voltage I always use a digital vom. It is my experience that any difference greater than 3.5- 4 volts is indicating a problem and we usually remake connections at poa and pole. The machine is not foolproof. I have had some calls where it picked up nothing, we remade connections and the blinking had stopped. Once again I think oxidation was the culprit, possibly when someone failed to clean the conductor before installation. I have also had loose connections it would not pick up. We have had problems with certain "H" taps, mostly #5's which cover 4/0- 6,4,2.

[PA BEN]

Had a call form a business about blinking lights. This was an old building with open wire secondaries. We couldn't turn them off at the time so we turned them off the next morning and put up new triplex, new transformer buss and all new connectors. This didn't cure the problem so when the boss was there to tell them to get an electrician the lights blinked as he was standing by the meter and heard arcing in the meter. A new meter problem solved.:D

[linemansmilestones]

You are right on about the digital beast. The meter is not accurate enough for many problems. Digital only.

[Pootnaigle]

If you suspect an open neutral or high resistance connection a simple method of checking is to use an ampmeter at the ground rod for the service entrance. If it shows any current flow at all there is a problem somewhere .

[australiantroubleman]

I agree a tong ammeter is a very good aid in finding poor neutrals ,check ground rods .. water pipe grounds .

Tried lots of new fangled devices but still fall back on old tried and true fault location methods.

[upntheair]

Another great instrument for finding bad connections is a loop impedance meter.

[ClimbingFool]

Well said MARKWHO the digital beast isnt foolproof. Had a blinking light call used the BEAST, showed nothing,so we changed the POA connections at the weatherhead. All connections looked good back to the TUB with binoculars. Two days later got another call to go back. This time we set up the bucket at every pole only to find bad two bolt bugs severely corroded under a tape job. Goes to show the Digital beast doesnt always show a bad readout. Probably doesnt put enough load on the service to show up.
Ill have to try the amp-meter test there POOTNAIGLE. Sure helps out my troubleman skills. Thanks

[markwho]

The beast we have is an analog model. The meters are not very accurate and are suspect to movement by static(brushing over indicator with your hand will move it), therefore we use a digital vom at the test jacks provided. Granted the analog will indicate a fully opened neutral with out a problem.

[Trbl639]

The Digital Beast ain't foolproff for sure, but it is a dang good tool!!!
It's lied to us a few times on UG services......but only a couple of times everything at the pot and meter can was good..........the UG was going bad!!!

I've used the adapter with the Beast to find a bad neutral connection on secondary, 3 spans from the meter can/house!!!

[Tsplice]

I've been a TS full time,for around 15 years and I'm still learning just how
"humbleing"this stuff can be.It seems to throw you a curve,every time
you think you have the answer.I use a simple little "2" speed compact heater
1500-2000 watts,to check for loose conection's and open neutral's.So far
it hasn't let me down.As for stray voltages;the majority of our complaint's
come from dairy farms.We found that by eliminateing the mainline neutral
from the secoundary service,ie;delta-delta 3 phase feeding the milkbarn,
stray voltage dropped to less than 2.5 mv.Which,according to the "experts"
cows can't feel!Who new?

[mmm2m8r]

I've been a TS full time,for around 15 years and I'm still learning just how
"humbleing"this stuff can be.It seems to throw you a curve,every time
you think you have the answer.I use a simple little "2" speed compact heater
1500-2000 watts,to check for loose conection's and open neutral's.So far
it hasn't let me down.As for stray voltages;the majority of our complaint's
come from dairy farms.We found that by eliminateing the mainline neutral
from the secoundary service,ie;delta-delta 3 phase feeding the milkbarn,
stray voltage dropped to less than 2.5 mv.Which,according to the "experts"
cows can't feel!Who new?

I've recently taken a trouble truck position. What a nice change it is. I use the hair dryer a lot to find neutral shifts. If a shift of about a volt occurs and the connections have been changed at both ends, do you stop at this point or do you call for recording volt meters or refer them to an electrician?

[grizzlybuck]

I've seen too many occasions where it seems a shift of voltage of up to 3-4 volts is normal. I and a co-worker once spent 9 hours on a "flickering light" call (idiot company enacted a policy that if the beast showed a 3 volt shift, you were to change all connections)

Upon arrival, we had a 10v difference with just a voltmeter, we found a bad neutral connection at the service pole (lot-line) changed connection and still had a 4v diff, changed old #4TP service and had 4v diff. Changed connections at two other lot-line poles where there were double deadends on the secondaries and ended up tightening connections on the Transformer legs, after all this (climbed 4 poles and changed out two other obsolete services) we still had a 4v difference, turned the transformer in to be replaced :D. We had a 60 amp difference between the legs at the transformer, so that probably accounted for part of the voltage difference. After this episode, the idiots in supervision saw the light and told us to do our best and if we could not find anything to order an RVM

Now though our meter department (who install the RVM's) are complaining about too many requests, so another episode of, as the stomach turns.

[CPOPE]

I've seen too many occasions where it seems a shift of voltage of up to 3-4 volts is normal. I and a co-worker once spent 9 hours on a "flickering light" call (idiot company enacted a policy that if the beast showed a 3 volt shift, you were to change all connections)

Upon arrival, we had a 10v difference with just a voltmeter, we found a bad neutral connection at the service pole (lot-line) changed connection and still had a 4v diff, changed old #4TP service and had 4v diff. Changed connections at two other lot-line poles where there were double deadends on the secondaries and ended up tightening connections on the Transformer legs, after all this (climbed 4 poles and changed out two other obsolete services) we still had a 4v difference, turned the transformer in to be replaced :D. We had a 60 amp difference between the legs at the transformer, so that probably accounted for part of the voltage difference. After this episode, the idiots in supervision saw the light and told us to do our best and if we could not find anything to order an RVM

Now though our meter department (who install the RVM's) are complaining about too many requests, so another episode of, as the stomach turns.

upsize the neutral and balance the load screw the rvm's

[CPOPE]

Sometimes identified as “neutral to earth voltage” or “neutral to ground voltage,” “stray voltage” or “exposure voltage” is defined as the difference in potential between animal or human contact points, such as a cow’s body and hooves or a child’s hands and feet. This definition obscures the two-fold nature of the problem – that of identifying a source for the voltage and a path for the current. The voltage source is often hidden by a multitude of contributing factors, some endemic to the particular farm or household. Although the path taken by the current is the one of least resistance, it is not constant because of the changes in path resistances.

The problems related to exposure voltage do not end with simply investigating the voltages on the neutral or the equipment connected to the neutral. The sources of exposure voltages may include inadvertently energized metallic objects, structures, or earth in public areas. A case in point is a recent investigation into a complaint from a residential customer who said his children were getting shocked while playing in the backyard. Approximately 18 volts were measured from the faucet to ground. After an exhaustive investigation involving three different utilities for more than three months, the source was found to be a high resistance fault on a buried street light circuit.

In a “customer-choice” market, utility companies are mindful of the potential trouble exposure voltage can cause for business and residential customers alike. Courts have awarded settlements to several farmers who identified exposure voltage as the culprit for poor animal performance.

Millions of viewers were indoctrinated to the potential hazards of exposure voltage when the television show “Picket Fences” (October 23, 1992) depicted people dying in their bathtubs and cow udders exploding as a result of exposure voltage.

The media has always teased audiences with sensational statements such as this from USA Today: “…stray currents of up to three volts caused Cook’s cows to go wild and bend the bars of the milking parlor.” (USA Today, October 7, 1992). What was previously known as “tingle voltage” is now branded as “killer voltage” by the media.

Electric utilities must be sensitive to the concerns these images raise for their customers and are prepared to respond rapidly with trained field personnel who can provide effective and timely resolution to customer concerns.

[CPOPE]

"ABC 4 Investigation: Is electricity killing Utah cows?" Article Link:
http://www.abc4.com/content/features/story.aspx?content_id=1279f697-7f55-4336-927e-e1d35c8fded5

DELTA, Utah (ABC 4 News) - “I grew up on a dairy farm. John worked on one from the time he was eleven or twelve years old. This is indeed what we know, what we love, it's where our passion is,” says Maria Nye.

An unseen force is threatening Maria Nye’s passion. She says her cows, as a herd, are not as healthy and happy as they should be. They are stressed, and that that is leading to immune problems and even premature death. Maria thinks she knows why.

“That is the power plant and we believe that the problems we are having with immune difficulties with the cows are based on stray voltage, stray current from the power plant,” says Nye.

The power plant is IPP. The Intermountain Power Project just a few miles down the road. It is a coal-fired power plant that sends millions of volts of DC electricity to Southern California.

The Nyes, along with several other dairy farms in the Delta area, have filed suit against the Intermountain Power Project, claiming that stray DC current from the plant is effecting their cows and their livelihood.

Maria really knows her cows and she notices how they act when they go to the water trough.

“A cow who is thirsty and wanting to drink, will stick her nose in a bucket of water and suck it all down you watch our cows when they go to the trough, they'll lap at the water, like touch it...touch...touch (Nye demonstrates). Okay...I think I can do this and then they’ll stick their noses in,” says Nye, adding, “A cow is twenty times more sensitive to electricity than the average person.”

Nye continues to explain how cows normally drink, pointing to a female cow who is attempting otherwise.

“Cows would usually go to the water trough and stick their nose right in and suck the water up and, that's not what she's doing,” explains Nye.

Nye says cows need to drink 30 to 40 gallons of water so they can produce milk, especially in Utah's dry climate. When their cows starting acting strange, Nye and other Delta dairy farmers had an expert come out and test for stray current. Don Zipse is an electrical engineer from Delaware who has studied stray current since 1970.

“The cows are not drinking water because there is electricity in the water,” says Zipse.

But the Intermountain Power Project argues if there is stray current on the dairy farm, it’s not coming from them.

“Based upon substantial scientific research and tests, Intermountain Power Agency management believes that our southern transmission high voltage line that goes from Millard County to Southern California does not emit stray voltage. Pure and simple, that's it," says Reed Searle, the general manager of the power agency.

Searle says IPP has done a lot of testing.

“I wish I could explain the amount of testing we have done but it is extensive,” says Searle.

He doesn't deny there could be a problem, but explains that the voltage is not coming from his plant.

“If the dairy farms in Millard County do have voltage on their farms (then) that comes from some other place or some other location or source other than ours,” says Searle.

Searle's words offer little comfort for dairy farmers like Maria Nye, who just want to see their cows, once again, healthy and happy.

“What we are really hoping for is a solution. Yes we've lost a lot of money over the years, but what we'd really like is for it to stop,” says Nye. “It would be great to have happy cows.”