How did the candidates vote?

[duckhunter]

Take a look, McCain voted for permanent tax cuts for EVERYONE. Hillary and Barrak vote for tax cuts for a few.

McCain votes against pork, Barrak and Hillary look like swine farmers.

[topgroove]

Go ahead and cast your vote for McCain... and be ready for US military in Irac for the next 100 years at a cost of twelve billion a month. your precious tax cut won"t be worth a hill of beans once this country is bankrupt and the dollar is useless as a curency. Ever wonder why oil is trading at over $100 bucks a barrell? Its because oil is traded in US dollars. A weak US dollar means higher cost per barrell. Well see $4 a gallon by memorial day and $5 a gallon by Augest.

[duckhunter]

We'll be in Iraq for another 100 years, really? Will we be out of Germany and Japan then? Seems to me we are still there, how long has that been? If you think the Dems will pull out of Iraq you are only kidding yourself.

And having higher taxes on Americans will cause the OPEC group to increase their output of oil? The value of the dollar will be worth more if it is taxed, that is an interesting theory. I know it will seem more valuable to me if I have less of them.

[topgroove]

the war in iraq is costing 12 billion a month. it has damn near bankrupted us. look at the economy.. the stock market, the housing forclosers, February was a record for unemployment. Its just gonna get worse. We are in the start of a ressesion and everybody seams to be ignoring it. Vote for who you want its your right and I'm not gonna tell you who to vote for. This country needs some drastic change before its too late.

[PA BEN]

They didn't do a God Damn thing, except for the Tax Cuts...which ya'll gonna repeal...and that's gonna be a mistake. But what the hell? YOUR Call!:cool: [/B]

Yes you sure cut taxes and bankrupted American doing it.

Your ignorant republicans cut taxs and spent the US into a hole that we may never recover from. Case the dollar to devalue, and put us into debt to the ChiComs. Great move bush.
Let's send more jobs overseas. Just like the Pentagon selling out the Air refueling tankers to France and Airbus

That clown still lives in a dream world.
Keep voting Your party batts, you might not like the man or woman you get!:eek: But as much as you say, "god damn" maybe God will allow your Democrat in office.:eek: and see who damns who:eek:

[duckhunter]

topgroove, I get it, you hate George Bush and you are opposed to the war. I accept that. But damn guy, tell the truth. The stock market and housing forclosures have zero to do with what the war is cisting us. The housing forclosrues have to do with GREED and LYING. Lenders were greedy and lent money to people that were never qualified for the payments at the higher interest rate. Buyers lied on their mortagage applications about what they made. Both buyers and lenders expected the housing values to grow at unreasonable rates, even though economists everywhere said the market could not sustain it. Economist everywhere said the bubble would burst and that there would be a major correction. Now if you want I can come up with links to articles that proove what I'm saying. The wonderful thing about the internet is that there is all kinds of information stored that tells the truth.

You said February set a record for unemployment, for what? For Feburary? For 2008? For this decade? Certainly you know that the economy is nowhere near bad times that have been seen in your lifetime.

You say no one is paying attention to a recession, you must listen to different radio and tv than I do. The major media has been hoping it would come true for months.

If you are not trying to tell people who to vote for, then what are you trying to say? I'm saying I prefer John McCain to Obama or Hillary, I think it is okay for me to say that and try to convince others why I think that. McCain was not my first choice. My guy had a religious faith that was okay to slam all oaver the media, as opposed to Obama's church which we can't talk about.

[topgroove]

you want the truth... ok here goes. this country is headed for the worse financial crises we've ever seen in our lifes. the collapse of Bear Stearns, one of the worlds largest investment banks has investors all over the world scared shitless. Rival JP Morgan will aquire Bear Sterns for $236.2 million or $2 a share. At their peak Bear stearn stock was trading at $159.36. The deal will be financed by a special deal from the feds. The reason Bear Stearns folded so quickly is beacause they were grossely over extended and investors felt a growing crisis of confidence in the global financial system. Basicly in simple terms, they had a run on the bank.
How does the the war in Iraq have anything to do with this? We are financing this war at a cost of twelve billion a month... Thats Billion with a "B", twelve Billion we don"t have. The treasury simply prints up more money to make up the shortfall. Now what does that do to the dollar? It causes the the value of the dollar to fall when compared to other currencies. Oil is traded in US dollars so as the value of the dollar falls the more we have to pay for it. A barrell of oil is currently trading for around $110. Gold is at $1000 an ounce. As americans are squezed at the pump, not to mention all other goods and services that are rising in price, we are forced to buy less. Most Americans are maxed out on credit and forced to cut back on spending.the fuel that keeps this economy lumbering along. As the US economy grinds to a halt what effect will it have on the Asian and European markets ? Thats right you guessed it, say goodbuy to foriegn investment. the Asian and European markets will fall like a house of cards. Plunging the world into a worldwide recession.
Have you looked at your 401K lately? Kinda scarey . Oh the feds keep telling us its only a bump in the road things will get better... I'm not so sure. All I see here in western NY is people leaving the area in droves, Every day I read about another factory closing down. I can see the collapse of Ford, GM and crysler in less then ten years.
So what does any of this have to do with the Novemer elections? Well I can see if we stay on our current path it dosen't look good. Its time for change in this country and it may allready too late.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Topper,
You make valid points, and you are probably right about most of them. However, Bear Stearns painted themselves into a corner with questionable business practices. And how is it the government's fault if people maxed out their credit? Lots of people took loans and mortgages that they couldn't afford and shouldn't have gotten in the first place. These banks that are crying now were pissing themselves with delight when they were writing these loans, too. So I say f*** 'em. Maybe people will learn something from the mess they're in.
12 Billion a month is a lot of cash, but that is NOT why the economy has hit the wall. it may be contributing to the downward spiral, but even without this war, the bubble was gonna burst. Think back to the tech boom that crapped out a bunch of years ago. Everyone takes all they can get, and when things dry up, they all whine like bitches. Bottom line: keep your financial house in order, and you will survive this economic downturn. Spend money faster than you make it, fall on your face.

[Dave@PSE&G]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/17/news/economy/gothere/index.htm?postversion=2008031716

This article helps make my point.

[topgroove]

its not the governments fault people are defaulting on their loans but many have lost their high paying jobs because of nafta, many good people struggling to get by have watched their insurance preimums tripple.all of us here are lucky. we all have great high paying jobs and can weather the storm. their are millions of americans doing the best they can living paycheck to paycheck and just getting by. we need change now .we need to elect a president that dosen't pander to lobiests and special intrest groups that push their agenda's through congress. it dosen't matter if they're democrat or rebublican they all take pac money from the big pharmaceutical ,insurance ,financial and energy companies to name a few. only one candidate left does not take pac money or donations from lobiests .

[topgroove]

swamp, I truly believe the american people are smarter than congress gives us credit for. I believe most politicians think we spend more time reading the sports page than the business section. I believe change comes from the bottom up.its not a democrat or rebublican issue anymore. we need to change the way washington does business and the american people are the ones that will make it happen. am I naïve... I don't think so. you ask what is this great change... i'll tell you. its an administration that's willing to work bipartision. an administration that will not pander to lobiests and special intrest groups. am I naïve...lets just say the american people will send a message to congress this november. we're sick of your greed and incompetence and its time to take back our government.

[duckhunter]

Even after the Bear Stearns problems yesterday the market is up today, so far.

Tpp, I agree with you that the American public is smarter than our elected officials give us credit for. I believe that is why so many voters got behind Ron Paul. I believe we are naive if we believe one President can change things. We need Senators and Congressmen who have the thought process like Mr. Paul. I'm not saying we all need to agree on every topic, I certainly don't agree with him on everything. But we have to ask ourselves, why is has the media acted as though the guy doesn't exist? I'll be honest, I haven't done the math. But I'll bet Ron Paul recieved more votes than any canddate like Ross Perot, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or the like ever did.

My issue with your arguements is that you seem to blame most of our problems on the war. You really don't believe that if the war were not going on, that our elected officials would be practicing fiscal restraint do you? Look at the billions of dollars in new programs that Hillary and Barrak are proposing. Remember, this thread started based on how everyone voted for tax cuts and pork barrell spending.

[Orgnizdlbr]

http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon1.gif

Stinger, vote for the candidate that best represents what your core values are. Take a look at what both major parties have done that are consistant with your core beliefs. If you are a Union member, just look back and see what the parties have done to our cause. It started with Ronny Reagan, thats why he is held in such high regard by corporate America. Reagan began the assault on the Wagner Act (NLRA) and the rest of the republicans ran with it.

Since then while that assault was slowed under Clinton, never the less, it continued. NAFTA is an aboration, Clinton got it passed congress and agreed to, that to me is unforgivable. Now there is a similar proposal to Nafta which Nancy Pelosi is in favor of, it involves Peru. The safe guards for workers in the agreement are so bad, and essentially unenforcable, that 2 Peruvian workers right groups came out against the agreement. Even though it would mean more trade with Peru, it only benefits big business, the workers in Preu are smart enough that they wont gain anything. Yet, Miss Pelosi thinks that the agreement is peachy keen, go effen figure.

Back to the republicans. Under the current administration your rights have been eroded more than under any other administration since the enactment of The Wagner Act and Taft Hartley. He stack the NLRB against us. His appointments to the Federal courts and the decisions coming out of the fed court system are so detrimental to your right to protected concerted activity that it is frankly UnAmerican. Couple that with no bid contracts to Haliburton well you see where I'm going, although the Dems arent great shakes as far as workers rights go, they are miles ahead of the neandethal republicans and their view of big business and what they allow to occur. Remember, we live in the second coming of the Robber Barrons, remember Enron? A Bush crony ran that show, Kenny Lay was on Bush's energy committee, wonder whay the electrical infrastructure was allowed to go into the toilet in Texas, and around the country?

So I say vote who best represents your core values. Dont get waylayed by single issue candidates who promise one thing or another on a hotbutton issue like guns, the right to choose, abortion and the like. Look at the total package. And get involved, volunteer with your local to man the phone banks, do the labor walks, get involved in GOTV or "get out the vote" the politicos pay attention to who helps, who contributes and so on. When you get your candidate into office, make sure you hold their feet to the fire, dont be timid, they make us promises, if they dont keep their word kick their doors down and remind them who got them elected.

Now there are those on this site who will tell you that organized labor's influence on the political process has a small effect on the process. Those people are dead wrong. :Look at what happened in 2006 and the change in the house and senate. Those are the states that were targeted by the AFL_CIO and look what happened. We in labor cant match the money that corporations can. Organized labor gave between $65 and 75 million last cycle. Big business gave ten times that. But what we have that big business doe not have is "boots on the ground" thats why i asked you to get involved in the labor walks. You're in Mass. I assume you are with National Greed, they hate when your politically active, thats reason enough to get involved.

So, in the words of Eugene Debbs, remember what the republicans did to your right to protected concerted activity, your right to collectively bargain on a somewhat level playing field and in November of 2008 "Annihilate the Bastards and Organize Their Pallbearers"



I didnt feel like retyping this......posted last year, still and always hold h sae view......

[topgroove]

No worries swamp... Your vote wont count anyway.You live in a state where the election process has proved to be much too difficult to get right.

[topgroove]

Even after the Bear Stearns problems yesterday the market is up today, so far.

Tpp, I agree with you that the American public is smarter than our elected officials give us credit for. I believe that is why so many voters got behind Ron Paul. I believe we are naive if we believe one President can change things. We need Senators and Congressmen who have the thought process like Mr. Paul. I'm not saying we all need to agree on every topic, I certainly don't agree with him on everything. But we have to ask ourselves, why is has the media acted as though the guy doesn't exist? I'll be honest, I haven't done the math. But I'll bet Ron Paul recieved more votes than any canddate like Ross Perot, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton or the like ever did.

My issue with your arguements is that you seem to blame most of our problems on the war. You really don't believe that if the war were not going on, that our elected officials would be practicing fiscal restraint do you? Look at the billions of dollars in new programs that Hillary and Barrak are proposing. Remember, this thread started based on how everyone voted for tax cuts and pork barrell spending. the war in Iraq is only one part of the problem. the estimated cost so far is about 500 billion and some estimates run far higher.Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and harvard University public finance expert Linda Bilmes have estimated the eventual cost at $3 trillion when all the expences, including long term care for veterans are calculated.Obama is proposing tax cuts for the middle class and relief for people trapped in ajustable rate morgages. Obama is proposing a major investment in our infrastructure. Our roads and bridges are crumbling and in need of urgent repair creating jobs for hundreds of thousands of middle class men and women. Obama is proposing changes to nafta which has all but destroyed major manufacturing jobs in this country. Obama proposed eliminating tax breaks to companies that out source good paying jobs overseas. An Obama administration will not let lobiests and special intrest groups dictate policy in Washington. I believe The American People have become disgusted with Washington and will demand change in our government. We cannot continue with business as usual.

[duckhunter]

The sky is still not falling, a weak link has been eliminated.

"An Obama administration will not let lobbyists and special intrest groups dictate policy in Washington. I believe The American People have become disgusted with Washington and will demand change in our government. We cannot continue with business as usual."
SO that means, the union lobbyists, AARP, the Sierra Club, and a whole host of left-wing lobbyists will not have any impact on policy on an Obama adminstration? Kool-Aid, please! This "change" thing is a line of CRAP. Do you think that there is even one group of people that don't want change? It is just the change that each group wants. Conservatives want less spending, lower taxes, and less government. Liberals want to increase taxes, increase social programs, and more government control.

Eliminating NAFTA will not bring back jobs to the USA if Americans continue to buy from other nations. The buying public feeds the manufacturing overseas. Our union brothers and sisters may drive a car from the big 3, but who do they by their tv, computers, furniture, tools and clothes from? We can make a difference without elected officials doing anything. And then we leave them scratching their heads.

[rat1369]

as i've said in other threads you need to have a complete free market system. gov't cannot fix what is wrong. look at the policies that come out of the depression. social security was one of the worst programs invented. then the income tax come about to fund WW2. now in WW2 we had every right to fight the japanese, but why did we go to europe and africa. hitler and mussolini didn't do a damn thing to us until we got involved. so was stopping the holocaust wrong because it cost to much. back then AMERICANS HAD SPINES. the genocide in iraq was no different with the kurds. and may i remind all that disagree with the war, it has been over six years without an attack on american soil. so if i pay a little more intaxes to fight over there, and cost someone their welfare check i really don't give a damn. the govt is there to provide oppurtunity not a paycheck, house, food, or a college education. why do you think i do linework. it is one of the best paying jobs there is. i don't expect the govt to protect my right to be unionized. i've never read that in the constitution. if union is the way to go then the free market will reflect that. i do agree however about abolishing tax breaks for outsourcing. in fact i support a flat tax across the board. this progressive system the dems have given us violates the very fairness they preach. under the clinton admin. i served in the U.S. Navy. when i would get promoted i would actually bring home less after taxes. how does that promote achievement. if someone wants to eat they need to work. if they want a car they need to work. i'm sick and tired of people talking about change and that hussein obama will bring it. ya'll are right if you want this country one step away from communism. change for the sake of change brought brilliant leaders to power like hitler, stalin, mussolini and moa tse tung. obama is no different. so when you do go vote think about what you want. change that helps people stand on their own or change that punishes success and rewards failure and laziness. AMERICAN FIRST CAPITALIST SECOND AND LINEMAN THIRD

[Special ED]

What we need is another Richard "Tricky Dicky" Nixon!

[IN THE SHADOWS]

What we need is another Richard "Tricky Dicky" Nixon!

Oh my aching ass NO!

Jesse " The Body" Ventura with Hank Williams Jr as a running mate for me:D

[Special ED]

The Terminator stands a better chance than Ventrua.

[IN THE SHADOWS]

OK...Cant argue....I just remember that when Ventura was the gov of Minnesota for a while it seemed like he kinda shook things up a little in the right direction.....I sorta liked his thoughtline

[Special ED]

He was big talk during elections but thats about it if I'm not mistaken.

[wtdoor67]

We'll be in Iraq for another 100 years, really? Will we be out of Germany and Japan then? Seems to me we are still there, how long has that been? If you think the Dems will pull out of Iraq you are only kidding yourself.

And having higher taxes on Americans will cause the OPEC group to increase their output of oil? The value of the dollar will be worth more if it is taxed, that is an interesting theory. I know it will seem more valuable to me if I have less of them.

If my memory serves me right, I believe the Wars with Germany, Japan and N.Korea were started respectively by Germany, Japan and N.Korea. A big difference than the flimsy excuse for war with Iraq. Not a big difference, a vast difference.

Not exactly on topic but about oil. Exxon owns 29 billion barrels of oil and at $100 per barrel with an inventory value of $2.9 trillion. That oil cost Exxon a measly $5.45 per barrel. Chevron's estimated oil inventory is worth an estimated $2.2 trillion at a cost of $5.34 per barrel and Royal Dutch Shell's inventory, values at $2.6 trillion, only cost them $5.77 a barrel.

Since 2002 , Big Oil collectively earned nearly $1 trillion in profits after taxes. Exxon put zero percent of its profits into renewable or alternative energy; BP, 0.6 percent; Chevron, 0.5 percent; Conoco Phillips, 0.7 percent.

Our current president comes from Oil, our current V.P. was chief executive of Halliburton, the largest oil service co. in the world. Now where would you guess our leaders interest's lie?


The foregoing 3 paragraphs were gleaned from Malcolm Berko's column.

[duckhunter]

You people that think President Bush and Vice-President Chaney have ANYTHING to do ith the price of petroleum need to really think about what you are saying. If they really had any control, why wouldn't they lower the prices to get the LOVE from everyone?

While Haliburton is an American company, how many other BIG OIL companies are? The majority of our petroleum in this country comes from Canada. Why doesn't anyone talk about them having such high prices. They are not being good neighbors.