ELT Sr

[mmm2m8r]

Dpl is talking about requiring the use of fall protection equipment for climbing poles. One device was explained to consist of a rope line going around the inside of the pole from your belt creating some sort of cinching device if jerked downward (cut out). The new safety man is saying most utilities are already using them. I wonder if anyone has experience with this and are most utilities requiring their use? (We are in a safety blitz after a near fatality last year. I find most of our problems are from not using existing safety rules and some pretty lax attitudes especially with some of the older linemen.)

[Electriceel]

Nope we do not and so far are not required any sort of fall protection.
Young lineman whom should be the ones doing the climbing are the bucket babies majority of them spend their day talking on cell phones or joking around while us old fools do the work for them. God forbid we get a little testy with them, all they do is run to supervisors or management next thing we know we are all the old grumpy men.

I found just the opposite the younger ones seem to not understand the safety rules.

[Miami Bear]

I'm in the process of becoming an apprentice and we are required to use Pole Chokers, aka "Yellow Bellies", when climbing. They take a little getting used to but before you know it, you forget it's even there. The major annoyance is when climbing over obstacles since now you have to unhook it as well as your safety strap (if you don't free climb of course).

I imagine most linemen who have never used it will not welcome it but I've seen a few people completely cut out while using it and they only slid down the pole a foot at the most before it cinched down and caught them.

[mainline]

We don't use them, but I'm sure someone in managment will soon decide it is a great idea.

[Special ED]

Ive never worked anywhere they are required but I have seen alot of apes using 2 safeties. Makes no sense to me to have the extra weight and the extra saftey hanging down when your not climbing over stuff. Most of them their biggest issue is climbing over things and they are afraid to lean in and un saftey. The extra saftey either for a lineman or ive seen some use a tree trimmers saftey rope is kinda like their security blanket. In my own humble opinion I think more time should be devoted to pole climbing techniques. But if they must require something of this nature there is only one product I have seen that I would tolerate but not like and that is the retractable saftey straps I think Buckingham makes. I had an Ape who had one on his belt. It kinda resembles a seat belt. You have the housing on one side of your belt with a saftey snap on it and when you get to an object you must climb over you simply pull it out like a seat belt go over the object your climbing over and hook it into your D ring on the opposite side. Then you can un saftey without worries of falling and climb over the object and saftey back in and remove the retractable strap.

Like I said I prefer to free climb and think it is a matter of prefrence. But as Mainline stated its only a matter of time before someone thinks it is a great idea and implement it into the saftey program. Guess when the time comes we will have to adapt and overcome.

[Miami Bear]

LOL ED, aside from the pole choker, we are also required to use the seatbelt you are referring to. Neither are much of a hassle on the training facility since the poles are clean all the way up to the secondary. I can only imagine the time it will take to use these safety items on a real pole that's got all kinds of communication cable hung on it.

I can't really complain since this is the way we've been taught since the begining and won't know what we're missing but I feel for the rest of you though.

[mainline]

Do they at least teach you guys to free climb so you can quickly do pole top rescue? I watched the video of the guy in the fatigues do a rescue with a pole choker. It was painful to watch.

[old lineman]

Time and time again I read where linemen are using this system for pole climbing.
How well does this method protect from a free fall that could occur during a cutout.
Let's be honest every lineman who has 'clum sum' has cut out some time. Been there done that!
Let's say for an arguement sake you are wearing a second belt which would mean that you 100% belted to the pole. Should you cut out you will cetainly ride the pole to the next fixture below you before you stop.
That just may be the ground 20, 30, 40 feet below. The belting-in will ensure that you land on your feet at the bottom of the pole instead of on your back 10 feet away.
That's reassuring especially when you realize that there are 27 (X2+54)bones in each foot that can be broken enough that you may never walk in comfort again or at all.
Personal experience, I fell 30 ft. while belted in and I was on the ground before I knew it. There is no time to think let alone react.
Remember you free fall at 32 ft. per second, what can you do in 1 second, plan and protect . Forget it! You'll take what's dished out.
The only sensible and logical way to protect is to have a device that eliminates the thought process automatically.
The powers to be are being forced to protect us from ourselves and there is no one individual who can successfully fight it unless you go against the grain.
Going against the grain is always risky whenthe rules say otherwise.
Sometimes it's grounds for dismissal.
The Old Lineman

[Miami Bear]

Do they at least teach you guys to free climb so you can quickly do pole top rescue? I watched the video of the guy in the fatigues do a rescue with a pole choker. It was painful to watch.

Yes, when we were taught to climb, we were taught to free climb. Before certification, we had to do a pole top rescue in under 4 and a half minutes. Most people did it well under 4 minutes and some even under 3.

I feel comfortable doing it either way really. Many people don't like it, but no one I've heard complain has really been able to argue that the Jelco Pole Choker doesn't work. I've seen people cut out with it and they didn't slide more than a foot. You kinda bang into the pole and just hang there until you get your bearings and step back in.

[Special ED]

I saw that same video Mainline and boy was that pathetic. If they are gonna take the time to tie a tag line to my feet so the rescuer can climb over me well they might as well only send him up with the tag line and a good sharp knife and good lord willin the when my fat ass bounces off the ground from the top of a pole it will re-start my heart. Cause them Canuks in that video aint gonna rescue anyone.. Maybe that was a pole top retrieval class not rescue.

[BigClive]

I think in real life the newer linemen will use the buckstop style climbing belt just because that's the way they were taught. However, I'm sure that when faced with a particularly obnoxious pole they will just sneak up freehand anyway.

Likewise, in an emergency situation I guess they'd just run straight up that pole to do the rescue.

[LeadHead]

Well said. The man who knows everything still has alot to learn.

[Special ED]

Hookman I dont believe anyone is really bitching about progress.

In my own humble opinion apes are being pushed through their classes and lessons too fast in some cases and because not all apes are natural climbers and the growing demand to turn out bodies from apprenticships there has been an increase in lineman cutting out and falling. So in an effort to side step that set back they are making these rules and devices to make up for experience.

Been a lineman sice 2001 and only seen a couple guys fall off a pole and they were both the climbers fault. One wasnt paying attention and was climbing really fast showing off and the shell on the pole broke before he reached the secondaries and down he came to right where he started. The other simply hooked his saftey into his klines. He suffered a broke back.

As many cut outs and falls you have seen maybe your co-workers should use the new saftey features and products comming out. All in all it should be prefrence.

I don't know many on here that have built powerlines up on mountain sides with nothing but your belt and hooks and a team of mules but when your packing that stuff up a mountain side the less there is the better. Thats why I dont want to use a buckstop or second saftey.

Like I said in my previous post though. I guess at some point we will all have to adapt and overcome. But if Im up on a pole workin it hot and my ape or lineman on the ground had better know how to free climb to do a pole top rescue incase the shit gets bad. Cause everyone knows time is everything and there wont be time to put some device on the pole to help someone hitchhike up to do what needs to be done.

[mainline]

I agree with both Special and Hookman if it is possible. I fell from cable position on a turnpike crossing. Fortunately I didn't land on anything or get hurt. The only thing that was injured was my pride. I understand that falls are a danger. I also understand that the ability to climb with all methods can be an important part of the job. I usually hitchhike on transmission, and freeclimb on distribution because of obstacles. I an do both and should be able to do both. This doesn't mean that I think using a miller or bucksqueeze makes you less of a lineman. I just think that it removes one more skill form our tool bag.
I think a lot of this is driven by the fragmentation of skills and push for warm bodies in our trade. We have non-union contractors in our area who are turning out two year journeyman. How can you learn enough in two years to be able be considered a journeyman?
My utility has increasingly broken up the trade. We have maintenance crews, construction crews, transmission crews, underground crews. Yes we do have crossover, but increasingly if you start in the company as a grunt and work in maintenance you will never do construction, or much transmission. The same limits affect the other areas. It can make it hard to be well rounded. We have great lineman, and some who really are unable to work self-directed. The increasingly draconian safety rules are driven by the fact that the company needs to over regulate safety in order to make up for an increasingly weak knowledge base. Before anyone accuses me of being an old fart, I'm not. I'm in my thirties. I don't think that things like the miller are inherently bad I just worry that they are a symptom of something larger.

[Special ED]

I don't think that things like the miller are inherently bad I just worry that they are a symptom of something larger.

My thoughts exactly.

[johnbellamy]

If you want to use a bucksqueeze, second skid, a 100% fall arrest sytem, or hell not even go in the air at all, or even get out of a truck to go home safe every night, I personally could give a shit.

If you think these "young guns" are a good product of the trade, hey what ever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

What I am saying is I should not have to have the same out look as you, I will be the journeyman I choose to be, I do not think I should be have to use anything other than my hooks and belt, climb as I choose, It has worked for many of lineman for many of years, don't throw "progress" or "safety" at me for the lack of so called "old school" linework, or for the refusal to train properly.

Like in other posts I have read, who's actually doing the work, and who is saying there is a lack of safety with the older guys, maybe the older guys know what they are doing, have these guys ever thought of that? Maybe they have survived all these years without all this "progress" you speak of because they were trained like they should be.

So call me stupid, I sures hell been called worse, but don't make me use a bucksqueeze, or what ever the new flavor of the month is. I think some of you own stock in the bucksqueeze.

[Special ED]

I was looking at the pictures forum and realized where hookman was comming from with the picture he posted. Got a picture of a 60 footer knuckle over boom. Its boomed all the way over off the side to reach a pretty bare pole. In my own humble opinion I rather climb the pole and work it out than goto that much trouble to get out of climbing.

Had an old forman once who insisted on gettin a truck to a pole like that so we could make up a service (non-payment off reconnect) I told him you and my grunt at the time can get the truck back there while I do the work. And low and behold the truck was just gettin set up as I came down the pole. From that point on the forman asked me what I felt like doing. Of course Im a unit man and used to humpin it 10 hours a day to turn em out.

[Special ED]

I came up on the work and took the pic, there was a lineman and a equip operator only on the job. Who the hell was left to climb the pole smart ass.
Once again EAT ME BITCHES

Your lineman dont climb? Doing wreck out work I'm assuming it is all dead. Usually is for me unless its reconductor work.

[johnbellamy]

I hav'ent forgot what it is like, and I find myself protecting apes from the assholes you speak of, if the new guys are required to use things thats not there fault, but the lack of work ethic is, the attitude they have of lack of respect for there journeyman is, the right of entitlement they feel is.

Not all are bad, but I don't see the drive that I believe they should have, or that they only do the minimum that is required of them, rather than pushin so guys have to keep up with them.

Like Ed said, it is almost a feeling of guilt guys give you if you just throw you hooks on anymore, shouldn't be that way. If they don't want to climb, not my problem, but when that ape feels that way, it is my problem cause I'm training him.

[Special ED]

Where did he go?