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View Full Version : After 2 Deaths @ Mid American Energy Co Adopting 0 Tolerance Policy



weevy
09-01-2008, 09:13 PM
This is what has happened in less than 3 weeks at this Company

1. Substation Electrician Apprentice Electrocuted while Working @ Substation.

2. Apprentice working for Mountain Power Killed and another Burnt Severely on routine shakedown on Dist.System. Contractor was working for Mid American Energy's Rockey Mountain Power or Pacific Power both owned by Mid American Holdings Company

3. Line Crew was told to Install Grounds on 161,000 kv line. The line crew got their tester out that measued voltage and they misread the gauge. They thought the lines were De-Energized and Began installing the grounds when after hooking up to the neutral they went to the first phase and found out the circuit was still energized. Needless to say the Ball of fire was incredible. They never got close to grounding the first phase. Apparently they mis-read their voltage meter.

So after these 3 terrible three weeks at this company, the company has now implemented a Zero Tolerance Policy. If you are found guilty of transgressing a safety rule it appears you will be terminated on the spot. It doesn't appear that their will be any leeway!!!!! From the smallest transgression to the largest it appears they will all now be punished with the same discipline.

cololinehand
09-01-2008, 10:33 PM
Instead of working on the problems that cause accidents let's have a knee jerk reaction and fire anyone for anything on the spot.

Par inacted that 2 years ago and we see what amazing strides they have made.:rolleyes:

C

BigClive
09-02-2008, 09:38 AM
"Zero tolerance policy". Just a routinely used buzz-phrase by office workers to make it look like they care. It helps them avoid corporate or personal liability if they surround themselves with buzz-words and patronising posters. My favourite is the use of logo's on workwear that say things like "100% safety motivated worker" With a big "thumbs up" logo. I tend to avoid wearing that sort of tat.

They'll still keep on rushing "trainees" through and employing anyone who says they're a tradesman.

Perhaps workwear with a "Led by idiots" and a "thumbs down" graphic would be more accurate.

old lineman
09-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Where I come from that policy isn't worth a pinch of coon shit. It would never stand up in court until the company has done their part.
That takes an unwavering commitment.
You first have to call meetings and document that everyone has been well versed in the rules and person has to sign off. Documentation, documentation, documentation.
Then you can lower the boom.
It's curious though, that new stance is really an addmission that they have been lax and tolerating rule contraventions all along. Kind of a dangerous approach just when the families are likely getting ready to sue their asses.
Also it makes no difference if they have this policy if the immediate supervisors can prod and force the worker to take short cuts.
They have to be onboard and held accountable. If they have trouble with any individual and take that information back to upper management the result has to be that management supports their supervisor's or else the wheels fall off the system.
For awhile they'll look like rat finks but it only takes one case and everyone will catch on real fast.
Following rules is a condition of employment.
That's the way it should have been all along and we wouldn't have these tradesmen dead and maimed.
When will they ever learn?
The Old Lineman

returntotheeve
09-03-2008, 01:07 AM
If you want to see how serious they are stop a few jobs to discuss safety. Make sure your trucks are pretripped 100%. Check that rubber. Your sticks been tested? You want me to use old untested sticks? Crews are pressured to break rules cut corners all the time. How many times have we heard here "They knew their capabilities. They knew the rules." F' that. AND before you sign anything make sure you do understand. They'll have you sign anything whether or not your training was sufficient.

mainline
09-04-2008, 04:14 PM
The problem at the utility seems to be a lack of knowledge not necessarily rule breaking, but it is hard to tell. If employees can't even read the meter they are supposed to be using to determine if conductor is deenergized they have a problem. Their time would probably be better spent on training and methods than on discipline and termination.

Fiberglass Cowboy
09-04-2008, 06:56 PM
It was probably a contract line crew installing grounds on the 161 Kv before working it. Just speculation though. The more extensive, in-depth and technical training has always been at the utilities.

Edge
09-04-2008, 07:32 PM
"Zero tolerance policy". Just a routinely used buzz-phrase by office workers to make it look like they care. It helps them avoid corporate or personal liability if they surround themselves with buzz-words and patronising posters. My favourite is the use of logo's on workwear that say things like "100% safety motivated worker" With a big "thumbs up" logo. I tend to avoid wearing that sort of tat.

They'll still keep on rushing "trainees" through and employing anyone who says they're a tradesman.

Perhaps workwear with a "Led by idiots" and a "thumbs down" graphic would be more accurate.




That sir is a solid Fuggin post.... this "push them through" apprenticeship (if they even go through one!) shit is getting old and even worse it's getting people killed...

Old Lineman... that documentation, documentation, documentation.... thing... lmao you sound like my Pop! (not a Bad THING he's the best Lineman I've ever seen/known!) he always said and still says now that he's upper management... that the only way company's know how to fix problems was/is to throw paper work at 'em till they go away....


and WTF kinda meter were they using on the 161? prolly a bunch of fuggin retards that ran a "tick tracer" up on a long stick ....

yeah Main you hit it on the head some training is needed.... but the bean counters think we need more safety rules.... or you need fired for not wearing gloves when you stapled your timesheets together...

Edge

Stay safe... Stay at the house!

Trbl639
09-05-2008, 08:42 AM
We've got a Zero Tolerance Policy....................also got 5 Stay Alive rules.........................violate any of them, and ya go to the house for a few days...then if you violate another within a year of the first time, and you're history!!!!

Seen more guys go to the house/laid off in the last few years, than in the 28 I've been with this outfit....they/management always want to make an example of someone to show they mean business!! They don't have a clue!!!

One guy was sent home the other day, for doing what he thought was right and safe...and he was from what I was told by a co-worker, and he got 5 days off!!!! I don't know the details.

our management thinks all accidents are preventable..............that's BS, that's why they are called accidents!! We can follow all necessary safety proceedures, and take all steps necessary to mitigate the hazards involved, but there are things that are beyond OUR Control........thus you have an accident!!!!

I was told this, after I asked a question, proposed a situation..........I'm set up.....on the side of the street, in the air, repairing a street light...all cones/flags/signs, flashers/strobes on, I am by the Book.........a Drunk is driving down the road, and plows into my bucket, throwing me out...I am not hurt, but the truck and other property is, and you are telling me that this is a Preventable Accident!!! Their/management's answer was YES!!!!!!

cololinehand
09-05-2008, 10:43 AM
It was probably a contract line crew installing grounds on the 161 Kv before working it. Just speculation though. The more extensive, in-depth and technical training has always been at the utilities.

Why do you say "probably a contract line crew?" I have seen some pretty messed up things the power company crews have done here. Wasn't you who was lambasting everyone else for their "speculation" on the accident in KS

C

old lineman
09-05-2008, 11:21 AM
Companies who's philosopy is 'there is no such thing as an accident' have stolen this idea from 3M or Proctor & Gamble. It's not a bad thing except that it appears silly sometimes especially when it wasn't your fault in any way.
There should be some leaway.
As for time off I always remember this story.
Two guys working, one is 25 and the other is 55. They are working together and are caught violating a rule.
The supervisor says, "you guy's are going to get 2 days off without pay".
The 55 year old guy is really pissed and says, "to himself you SOB's I'll get even if it's the last thing I do". Linemen ALWAYS get even, somehow.
The young guy says,"could I have 3 days to go with it because I'm going hunting"?
That's why you can't always be a whipping boy, it doesnt get the same reaction for everybody.
In the modern age the first step is to retrain and document. That's the set up for a harsher reaction which everyone knows is the next level.
You've been warned so to speak.
The Old Lineman

WCLR
09-05-2008, 12:49 PM
I was told this, after I asked a question, proposed a situation..........I'm set up.....on the side of the street, in the air, repairing a street light...all cones/flags/signs, flashers/strobes on, I am by the Book.........a Drunk is driving down the road, and plows into my bucket, throwing me out...I am not hurt, but the truck and other property is, and you are telling me that this is a Preventable Accident!!! Their/management's answer was YES!!!!!!


See thats b.s. right there. Sounds just like the bean counters.

I guess an insulator breaking while you are booming up and the phase lands on top of you is your fault as well? Even though you havent touched anything?

Trbl639
09-05-2008, 02:15 PM
See thats b.s. right there. Sounds just like the bean counters.

I guess an insulator breaking while you are booming up and the phase lands on top of you is your fault as well? Even though you havent touched anything?

Around here, if that happened, you'd still get time off!!! Cause they'd say you didn't check the structure either side of yopur work area......what we got now, X-ray vision!!!!

We had a contract crew working storm restoration!! A company serviceman had cleared a line and grounded it at the source...........he took the crew out there and told them it was grounded...the source ground could also act as a box/working ground, because it was within five spans......they failed to check for a ground or install another ground on the other side of the work area.........they got caught....the foreman of the crew owned up to it, and said he made a mistake, took the serviceman's word it was grounded...........the contract crew, got 3 days off.......but they worked em 2 more weeks before they laid them off:mad:

Well the serviceman failed to write a Clearance on the line............before we can place grounds, we MUST write a Clearance, or get a Clearance before we Install Grounds (depends on if the line is Local or Dispatcher controlled)!! What happened to him..he was wrong, he violated policy/rules.....NOTHING, NADA, ZIPPO!!!!!

Fiberglass Cowboy
09-05-2008, 06:02 PM
I take it you work for a contractor. I work for an Inverstor Owned Utility (IOU), in the city. Alot of the utilities around here (midwest) are not allowed to work transmission. And some still are, and they still do. I wish i worked at a utility that had their crews still do transmission maintenance. But instead, most utilities rely on contractors to do their transmission maintenance and construction. We don't have the tools and equipment to do it anymore, nor the training. Which leads me to believe it was a crew of contractors. That's all. Not looking for a pissing contest here.

P.S. I've seen alot of shotty workmanship done by contractors in my neck of the woods. Alot of drifters come through here. You might see a guy working for our union contractor everyday for a month, then never see him again.

graybeard
09-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Not many crews within MEC that do trans. work. Some shops don't want anything to do with it and others still do. Some of it is the cost of the equipment required to do that kind of work.
Never heard for sure but would also guess it was a contract crew doing the work on the 161. Sounded like there are 3 circuts and the switching sheets were screwed up and those doing the work were given the wrong info and when they checked it indicated hot so they borrowed one and didn't know how to read it (I KNOW,I KNOW, I KNOW). IT HAPPENED AND IT SHOULD NOT HAVE. I've picked up some good tips on this site but the last thing I think we need to do is to hammer on each other.
I'm only guessing but I would bet that alot of companies are spending way more time on SAFETY and every little on TRAINING. When I work with a lineman who acts like he knows it all he scares the hell out of me. When we don't work together as a CREW watching out foe each other and bringing things up if we have a question about whats being done then we let everyone down and I think thats how people get hurt.
Ok I put my two cents in so so start hammering if you fell you need to.

old lineman
09-05-2008, 08:19 PM
I've noticed that more than a few contributors have asked not to rip them apart and others have said go ahead. I can imagine for everyone that says that, there are many more who won't wright anything because they think they would get ripped apart. They may have a little thinner skin than you 'been there, done that type of guys'.
To me that's a shame.
The only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked.
If some of you would go a little easier perhaps an important question will get asked and answered saving some one's bacon.
The Old Lineman

cololinehand
09-06-2008, 10:49 AM
Yep, you're right I do. I guess you will have shoddy workmanship anywhere by anybody. There has always been a division between contractor and utility hands as long as I have been in the trade.

I dislike when the contractor and shoddy workmanship are seemingly ever linked and I'm sure it works the same way when someone says the same thing aobut the ute hands for you.

I have worked in Denver since topping out in '96 and have always done my best, as you never know when you may have to return to add something to the end of a job you have done or fix something someone else has messed up. I had to do just that when a caisson contractor dug into 1000 CU that I had put in 2 weeks prior.

I understand your feelings/statement about the drifters. We have had some come through that I have seriously doubted their quals.

C