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AEE/linehand
12-03-2008, 09:43 PM
my company is having difficulty with tail boards. would like advice on a tail board training session or where to get started. we have all the osha sheets but it still seems like it is just going through the motions

Special ED
12-04-2008, 12:26 AM
Make sure everyone is in the know. From the grunt to the lineman as well as everyone else on the job.

Its easy.
1. Gather everyone prior to work starting or when someone new shows up.

2. Discuss the job assignment and issue responsibilities if needed.

3. Discuss hazards associated with the job. For example "Its energized".

4. Discuss PPE that will be needed such as FR shirts, gloves and sleeves, hard hats, and saftey glasses. As well as traffic vests for ground help

5. Discuss any special precautions. For example "The pole is broke and could fall anytime.", or "We are working on the side of a busy road so watch out for traffic."

6. Discuss and make sure everyone knows the circuit(s) your working on, the address of your location, where the nearest hospital is, where the nearest phone is, and what to do in case of an emergency.

Going through the actions shouldnt be that hard.

Pootnaigle
12-04-2008, 06:47 PM
What ED said but ya needa ask for input frum the other guys also. Try and make every job a team effort n try to use any ideas that can be incorpoated frum the tail board to make everyone feel some ownership for the job.If ya do this right first thing yanno the tailboard does itself on the next jobs.

CPOPE
12-06-2008, 06:31 AM
Video posted on YouTube might be helpful?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctqzydl3oaw

Holding a proper tailboard session takes extra time up front, but it’s worth the effort if we can eliminate the kind of mistakes and oversight that cause accidents.

Individual’s Responsibility
Each individual must practice safe working habits at all times. This is the only way any safety improvement program can work. Commitment to “Safety First” is the most important factor in preventing accidents. You must also have a sense of responsibility for the welfare of your co-workers, no matter what the personality relationships may be.

The company should provide you with the right tools and all the necessary safety equipment. Your supervisors should provide the leadership and required training. The individual must practice safety to protect himself/herself and co-workers from careless accidents.

Leader’s Responsibility
Individuals should look to their leader for guidance on how to do the job safely and efficiently. The leader’s role is to fully inform each person of his/her duties and the relationship of those duties to the whole job. No job, no matter how simple it may seem, should be started until you have planned it thoroughly, reviewed it with your work group completely, and feel certain that every possible safety hazard has been discussed. This is the value and purpose of the tailboard session.
You must understand that, as a leader, YOU are responsible for the safety of your work group. You should be proud of your position, and recognize that, in the eyes of your people, you are a role model for safe work habits. You must set the proper example.
The Tailboard Session
The person in charge of the work group is responsible for conducting the tailboard session. The ideal place to hold a tailboard is at the job site where everyone can clearly see the work to be done.

To be complete, it must contain these essential steps:
T Talk About the Job
A Assign Employees Specific Duties
I Identify Known Hazards
L Let Employees Know What’s Expected
B Beware of Creating Additional Hazards
O Observe Applicable Safety Rules
A Allow Time to Do the Job Safely
R Review Protective Equipment Needed
D Determine If Employees Understand Their Duties

Focus on the importance of each step…
TALK about the job.
When you arrive at the job site, the leader should gather all crew members together and begin by explaining the overall purpose of the job. This is where all members can openly discuss the work to be done and offer their suggestions on how best to do it. Noise can be very distracting. Try to find a reasonably quiet place to hold your tailboard session. Turn off the truck engine and shut off any loud power equipment. Quiet will help to make your tailboard session a success. The leader should never assume that everyone knows what’s going on. Instead, take the time to thoroughly explain exactly what is to be done. This way, if any part of the job doesn’t make sense, the members can ask questions. The leader should not allow the conversation to stray away from the job to be done. It’s also very important that only one person talks at a time. When a question is being asked, or the answer is being given, everyone else should be listening so they don’t miss the point.
ASSIGN employees specific duties.
The leader must be very selective when giving out work assignments. This requires knowledge of the skills and qualifications of each crew member. For example, trainees should not be assigned work that is beyond the scope of their abilities. It is even more critical for crew members to know their assignments when the job is complex, will involve a large work group, or when the workers will be spread out over a large area. In this situation, the leader should gather the workers together and present a “Project Overview.”
At the project overview, the workers should be given the overall scope of the job, told how they fit into the work plan, who they will be working with/for, and in what sequence the work will be done. Everyone must understand their part of the job – before the work begins.
IDENTIFY known hazards.
The leader must be very specific when pointing out hazards. Never assume your workers “know” that a hazard exists, even if they’re experienced people. Remember, it’s often the minor details we overlook that can contribute to an accident. Try to discuss the hazards in a logical sequence. Encourage everyone to offer their suggestions openly and freely. When someone identifies an additional hazard, the leader should recognize this person’s contribution and discuss the concern. The more critical the hazards, the more important it is that all crew members understand the danger and what steps will be taken for their protection. Go into detail and discuss all the hazards:
• Have you considered the public?
• Will the traffic control plans effectively protect the work area?
• What are the clearances to adjacent power lines?
• If the job involves pole climbing, have you checked the butt for decay?
• Have you accurately located underground facilities?
• Is fatigue a concern? Can you rotate your people or tasks more often to eliminate this dangerous situation?
• If you’re working near energized parts, is the lighting good enough to see what you are doing?
If you are using chemicals, are you familiar with the material safety data sheet and what protective equipment you need?
LET employees know what’s expected.
The leader should always let the members of the work group know exactly what is expected of them. If the workers have any doubt about what they are expected to do, they should ask the leader to explain the job again – this time in greater detail. Generally, it’s the leader who sets the safety, quality, and productivity standards for the group. And most workers will try their best to meet the leader’s standards. But they’ll never be able to do this if the leader doesn’t let them know what’s expected.
BEWARE of creating additional hazards.
Everyone must constantly be on the alert for the unforeseen hazards that occur during the course of the day – but especially the leader. The leader must be extremely observant of the work in progress and identify new hazards as they may develop. The leader should encourage all crew members, no matter what their job may be, to voice their safety concerns whenever they have them. By recognizing and discussing these concerns, the leader can further encourage the crew members to be aware of unsafe conditions. If the leader doesn’t think a concern is valid, he/she should explain why. Never reprimand or ridicule someone who seems overly concerned about safe working conditions.
OBSERVE applicable safety rules.
When you are given an assignment, make it a habit to review the safety rules that apply to the job you’ll be doing and to the area where you’ll be working. No one expects you to “memorize” all the safety rules. But if you use them regularly, you will become more familiar with the safety rules and be able to find topics quickly. Take the time to read and understand these rules, and you will be much less likely to have an accident. Whenever there is a conflict of opinion or a misunderstanding about safe work rules or protective equipment, ask your chief or supervisor.
ALLOW time to do the job safely.
One of the most basic safety policies is: No job we do or service we provide is so urgent that we cannot take the time and use the necessary equipment to do it safely. In the first steps of a tailboard session, you discuss the scope of the job and plan how to do the work safely. Now you should discuss how long it will take to complete the various tasks. Be realistic, and don’t overlook the fact that working safely means being careful – and that may take more time. When we hurry to get jobs done, we usually take shortcuts and risk our personal safety just to save a little time. This is a very foolish practice. Accidents are much more likely to occur when you are in a hurry and are not concentrating on the work.
REVIEW protective equipment needed.
There are three types of protective equipment you must review at a tailboard session:
1. personal protective equipment
2. rubber protective equipment, and
3. work area protective equipment.
Items such as safety glasses, gloves, ear plugs, hard hats, rubber gloves, sleeves and safety shoes are worn for your personal protection. Hose, hoods and rubber blankets are examples of rubber protective equipment. Signs, flags, cones, flares, barricades, tapes and other warning equipment are items used for work area protection. After you decide what equipment is appropriate, you should always inspect the condition of the equipment before you use it. Never use unsafe equipment or tools.
DETERMINE if employees understand their duties.
This is the last step in a proper tailboard session, but perhaps the most critical one. Now the leader must verify that all members of the work group were paying close attention. The work should not begin until the leader is confident that everyone knows and understands their assignment. For the most hazardous jobs, this step is extremely important.
By asking each person in the work group to repeat (in their own words) the most important aspects of their duties, the leader can determine if they were paying attention. Each person must be able to clearly describe his or her part of the overall job, the known hazards, and the protective equipment required. The leader must be satisfied with the responses before allowing work to begin.
The leader should never skip this part of a tailboard session. The members of the work group are much more likely to pay attention if they know you will be expecting them to contribute.

Stinger
12-07-2008, 10:42 AM
What the brothers said so far is valid and to the point. Remember this, ANY MISHAP the fisrt thing safety does is grab the tailboard. The tailboards is one the most important things a crew does before an outrigger is put down. Tailboards are done on the jobsite where you can see the job to be done and the hazzards it presents. Once you commence work and a safety issue or hazzard appears that was not present when you started the job, bring them down and regroup to discuss the solution. Allow nobody( regardless of his link in the food chain ) other than the crew in the zone, until they have been briefed and signed the tailboard. In our company if you start a job without a tailboard, the foreman is fired on the spot, no exceptions, tailboards are that important.

PA BEN
12-07-2008, 01:21 PM
If something does happen and not all crew members have not signed the tail board.....will you know the rest. If the job changes in mid stream, an up dated tailboard needs to be done. Pull in the crew and have a new tailboard. If someone shows up on your job, work stops and the new crew member is given the tailboard briefing and signs it.;)

mainline
12-08-2008, 05:17 PM
So let me get this straight you guys have an actual tailboard form? So instead of just having a job site briefing about duties, hazards, and methods you have to have an actual signed sheet? Yet another layer of paper work to cover our asses. It really amazing what our profession is coming to.

Pootnaigle
12-08-2008, 06:18 PM
Trust me that paper aint to cover our asses Its for the express purpose of covering the companies we work for. even a serviceman working by himself is expected to fill out the form, Listing every potential hazard and what he intends to do to avoid em.They actually do more to harm a safe attitude than help one.But I beleive many of these companies dont give a damn bout your safety as long as they can deny any responsibility.How many times have you been sent out with out the proper equippment or manpower to do a job that the company knew required sumpin extra. It happens everywhere and supervisors routinely plead ignorance of additional needs.
So when ya do one of these you needa make Sure they tow their end of the deal. If youre shorthanded ask for help, If you dont have the proper equippment then dont start the job until you do. Remember you have a stake in this also.

PA BEN
12-08-2008, 09:16 PM
Our employer requires signed paper work. This is what our rules require.
WAC 296-45-135 Job briefing.

The employer shall ensure that the leadworker conducts a job briefing with the employees involved before they start each job. The briefing shall cover at least the following subjects: Hazards associated with the job, work procedures involved, special precautions, energy source controls, and personal protective equipment requirements.

(1) Number of briefings. If the work or operations to be performed during the work day or shift are repetitive and similar, at least one job briefing shall be conducted before the start of the first job of each day or shift. Additional job briefings shall be held if significant changes, which might affect the safety of the employees, occur during the course of the work.

(2) Extent of briefing. A brief discussion is satisfactory if the work involved is routine and if the employee, by virtue of training and experience, can reasonably be expected to recognize and avoid the hazards involved in the job. A more extensive discussion shall be conducted:

(a) If the work is complicated or particularly hazardous; or

(b) If the employee cannot be expected to recognize and avoid the hazards involved in the job.

Note: The briefing is always required to touch on all the subjects listed in the introductory text to this section.

(3) Working alone. An employee working alone need not conduct a job briefing. However, the employer shall ensure that the tasks to be performed are planned as if a briefing were required.

[Statutory Authority: RCW 49.17.010, .040, .050, .060. 98-07-009 (Order 97-17), §296-45-135, filed 03/06/98, effective 05/06/98.]

wtdoor67
12-09-2008, 08:36 AM
Tailboards are just another way for the co. to paper cover their butt. You must admit that 90% of jobs by an ordinary distribution crew are repeats of things that most Journeymen have done over and over. A transformer changeout, a pole changeout etc. etc. There is no reason for example, if a crew is assigned to change out perhaps 30 or 40 poles in a line for a tailboard to be filled out each day to point out the hazards that were encountered the previous 2 days or so doing exactly the same thing. However that was the fashion at my last place.

I have found no reason to believe that tailboards have increased safety.

My thoughts are that like many things, if the safety people can find someway to increase the paper load they will do so in order to make their job a little more secure. HR people suffer from the same syndrome. They just love paperwork and job security. It always tickles me that on mergers a lot of these paper dudes lose their jobs.

If the companies were serious about safety they would only appoint people to these positions that were from the trade. Of all the safety people I can recall only about half were experienced tradesmen. I can remember one who was an ex meter reader. Real relevent. One an ex Limey military. Real relevent. One ex army MP. Real relevent. No one takes these kind of people serious. Just more examples of co. arrogance. Using the "BATTS SYSTEM" and the "BELLAMY SYSTEM" will of course greatly increase safety and cause most safety people to swoon with pleasure.

PA BEN
12-09-2008, 08:55 AM
[QUOTE=wtdoor67;51418]

I have found no reason to believe that tailboards have increased safety.



QUOTE]
I don't believe a Lineman would say this:confused:

HEAVY DUTY
12-09-2008, 07:19 PM
I personally think that with all the new hires that a pre job breifing is definetly a good idea. It gets everyone on the job on the same page. They pay you to do it, so do it and dont complain. There are alot of people out there looking jobs that would love to make the money that you are making and they wouldn't mind doing a pre job briefing. One thing for sure.........................IT DONT HURT ANYTHING BY DOING ONE............

wtdoor67
12-09-2008, 07:30 PM
[QUOTE=wtdoor67;51418]

I have found no reason to believe that tailboards have increased safety.



QUOTE]
I don't believe a Lineman would say this:confused:


Hell yes I'm serious as cancer. I think a formal written tailboard has been around at PSO for about 8 or 10 years. It's just another phoney pain in the ass I think.

From the amount of burns and fatalities I have seen posted on this forum I don't believe tail boards have done a damn bit of good. If some one can come up with some creditable stats I would become a believer.

Of course a person new to the job is going to get a briefing. Just common sense. Ah well those safety gurus just love a little more paper work. Makes them feel secure. The only way tail boards came about is because some ding a ling screwed up and said. "No body told me what was going on." Therefore the co. decided to cover their butt.

Special ED
12-09-2008, 08:06 PM
In a way I kinda agree with ya Danny. Tailboards dont increase saftey. But the heightened sense of awareness that they encourage does. It covers all loose ends and removes all doubt that everyone is on the same page.

I think they are good but not really a tool to cover the companies ass but your own.

HEAVY DUTY
12-09-2008, 08:27 PM
Tailboards may have not increased safety, but they sure have not hurt anything.

AEE/linehand
12-09-2008, 09:34 PM
I think tail boards should be an important part of every job for a crew. while the actual job might be something you have done before, no job is identical. and if the job is a "repeat" all the more reason for a job discussion, because complacency might be the biggest killer in our field. a job briefings most important aspect is to make sure that you and your pole buddy are on the same page and got your head in the game.

PA BEN
12-09-2008, 11:23 PM
Hell yes I'm serious as cancer. I think a formal written tailboard has been around at PSO for about 8 or 10 years. It's just another phoney pain in the ass I think.

From the amount of burns and fatalities I have seen posted on this forum I don't believe tail boards have done a damn bit of good. If some one can come up with some creditable stats I would become a believer.

Of course a person new to the job is going to get a briefing. Just common sense. Ah well those safety gurus just love a little more paper work. Makes them feel secure. The only way tail boards came about is because some ding a ling screwed up and said. "No body told me what was going on." Therefore the co. decided to cover their butt.
So let me get this right, When you say,"I have found no reason to believe that tailboards have increased safety" , you mean written? Or tailboard in general?

PA BEN
12-09-2008, 11:29 PM
[QUOTE=wtdoor67;51447]

From the amount of burns and fatalities I have seen posted on this forum I don't believe tail boards have done a damn bit of good. If some one can come up with some creditable stats I would become a believer.

QUOTE]

I would say that most of those job's didn't have a tailboard. ESCI has all the stats you need. It just makes sense that it's safer to have your crew on the same page before you start a job. Just a simple statement like test and ground that before you work it, can save the guy on the crew who might have come to work with his head up his ass.

wtdoor67
12-10-2008, 06:13 AM
about formal, written, signed by each crew member type of tailboards.

I don't think I've ever did any work that actually didn't have a discussion, however brief that told everyone what was happening. I just don't think it's necessary to have a written and signed piece of paper. To me it's just a thing that allows management to hold it up and say. He was told about it, and he still screwed up so therefore we have a reason to discipline him and perhaps fire him.

I just regard them as a management tool. They resemble safefty meetings in a lot of their tone.

Most of the ones I experienced, I regarded them as not 100% sincere.

I think a tailboard should be necessary for hot work, but not always.

HEAVY DUTY
12-10-2008, 04:17 PM
To PA BEN.

Can you prove that tailboards dont help prevent accidents.. NO

How many more accidents would we have if we didnt do them.

If they tell you to do it ..then do it shut up or find yourself a job at walmart.

Someone out there would love to make 30.00 an hour to fill out a tailboard.

Stop crying and accept change

Thanks Heavy duty

Pootnaigle
12-10-2008, 05:46 PM
I agree with Door on this one........... while tailnoards are necessary and productive they were never intended to be documented, They were to get the entire crew on the same page, How, who,when ,what and where. Its now being used as evidence against us when sumpin goes wrong. I dont beleive the signed sheets add a damn thing to saftey and possibly take sumpin away from many peoples attitude toward safety.

Phoenix-7
12-10-2008, 07:38 PM
Did a planned job on the weekend, Supervisor had no written tailboard or work signs out.

Do as I say, not as I do!
If I had ran that job, if work signs or tailboard sheets not filled out, name would have been shitte.

wtdoor67
12-10-2008, 08:06 PM
#1. You are an experienced hand and know the co's specs and hardware. You're assigned to a crew that's framing H fixtures for some wood transmission line. As you load up with the rest of the hands and head out for the ROW, your fellow hands inform you that they have all the equipment and hardware scattered etc. Need a tailboard?

#2. The job is to load the material and go to a certain address and set the 5 poles. You can tell by the hardware alone that it's just an average area lite type job. On the way to the location the foreman informs you that all ya'll need to do is frame and set the poles etc. and that the serviceman will come by in his little bucket and hook the duplex wire to it's overhead source. Need a tailboard?

#3. The job is to terminate URD primary and secondary in pad mts. that have been set previously with the wire on the inside etc. Nothing can be energized until your crew makes up the dip source. Need a tailboard?

#4. The job is to change out a bad OH transformer. The foreman gets the pole number, pot size etc., address from the boss and after loading the pot you proceed to the location. You glance up the pole and notice the troubleman has lifted the hot clamp stinger and of course the cut out is open also. It's just a simple single phase dead end pole. Need a tailboard?

#5. You and crew are given 3 services to upgrade, from #2 to 1/0, all single phase overhead. Helping the service man to catch up. Since each has it's own pot, and outage arrangements have been made it's really simple to do. Need a tailboard?

#6. A couple of secondary poles with only 1/0 triplex on them have started to lean. It's decided to put down anchors and hang guys on the both of them. Need a tailboard?

If you answered yes to any of the above, then I don't know how to deal with you. If people have to be warned continually that using digger trucks, putting down outriggers, digging pole holes, moving and setting poles have some hazards then I don't know how to deal with you. There are some things that are so routine that if a person had to be reminded constantly of them then I would regard him as a little shy of a full load.

I'm just trying to emphatize that mandatory, written tail boards are largely BS.

Daddyof2
12-10-2008, 09:34 PM
Sad to say door but where I work I would have to answer yes to all of the above. Not only that but we had better fill out and sign one for something as simple as a reconnect at the meter.

PA BEN
12-10-2008, 10:22 PM
To PA BEN.

Can you prove that tailboards dont help prevent accidents.. NO

How many more accidents would we have if we didnt do them.

If they tell you to do it ..then do it shut up or find yourself a job at walmart.

Someone out there would love to make 30.00 an hour to fill out a tailboard.

Stop crying and accept change

Thanks Heavy duty
Hay Dip Shit, I'm for tailboards:eek: BTW, I get 33.79 an hr to do mine. 34.97 the first of the year, I have no problem doing signed tailboards. I'm not a foreman but I have pushed crews on upgrades. And when my ass is hanging out, you sign my tailboard.
And to you DOOR I'd say yes to all. First of all no job is routine. Good men have died because they have taken this job for granted. Even if your tailboard is to in form your crew to use safety glass's on the URD job or the address so if you have a heart attack and need an ambulance, or the drunk driver drove his can in you work zone and ran your ass over, no matter how small the job, tailboard it. As far as a signed tailboard? I'm not saying you do it, but my employer requires it. And I have no porblem with it.

wtdoor67
12-11-2008, 06:51 AM
have to tell an experienced hand to wear his safety glasses, his leather gloves and all the basic things a lineman does, watch the outriggers and so on I think I would question his ability.

I think many jobs are routine. I do not think this work is exceedingly dangerous as many would like for the general public to think. Some people just want to posture and be macho. The most dangerous thing about this work is the ordinary stupidity of some hands.

Sure many jobs require a tailboard and it should be left up to the foreman and hands to know and understand when they are necessary. I think all hotwork should have a tailboard, but not framing up an area lite or something mundane. If a person doesn't know when to ask questions etc. then he is folding to peer pressure. If a tailboard isn't given and you believe one is necessary then ask for one. Better to ask than not.

My main point is I don't think a written, signed piece of paper should be mandatory for ever dinky operation.

PA BEN
12-11-2008, 09:09 AM
Well, wtdoor67, you've been at this trade 11 years longer then me. You are set in your ways. I'm not a new generation lineman and not old school ether. I've always tried to think outside of the box, I've retained a lot of good things over the years. I love this trade and still have things I can learn. I haven't done it all, and like to better myself. And if more safety will keep my co-workers alive to go home at night, so be it. I know lineman that can't see another way of doing things other then the way they have always done it. So lets Agree to disagree.

mainline
12-11-2008, 12:05 PM
Ben both of you are right to a point. I don't think anyone would argue that a tailboard is anything but a necessity. The fact that your utility requires a written one of course means that you have to fill it out. Who really wants to go home for not filling out paper work, not me. At the same time this is in the same vein as two layers of FR, blast shields, ground to ground sleeves, and fall arrest devices. The companies do not due this out of any real concern for your well being, they do it because of liability. No matter how many forms, rules, and devices the companies force us to utilize we will never be able to remove all of the risk from linework. The unforseen can and will happen. If we had safety people with a solid grasp of the work they would understand that, but increasingly the people charged with safety lack the necessary experience. It is sad, but the day of the lineman thinking and acting on the basis of judgment and experience seems to be passing.

wtdoor67
12-11-2008, 12:33 PM
run out of words on this subject. I am not set in my ways and am all for safety. I have always thought change is good, but not all change. It seems that change for the sake of change is stupid in my opinion.

I just cannot see making a written tailboard mandatory for ever little job. I think paperwork should be kept to a minimum. To insist on a paper tailboard on ever thing is just management and the safety departments way of creating more work for themselves.

As I have said before many times, when safety people are not relevant from the trade then hands become cynical and regard many things as silly. I have seen many safety people who have no business being in the position they are given. I have seen this many times and all it does is sap the hand's confidence in the companies sincerity regarding safety.

For example one time a second line supervisor (our boss's boss) came out and watched us change out an arm. He had read the safety rules and came to the conclusion that the groundman must wear his primary rubber gloves in order to run the handline. He insisted on this and we complied. Everyone agreed that basically he was an idiot. Just a small example of how management needs to understand what's going on.
.

AEE/linehand
12-11-2008, 06:00 PM
i am a safety person appointed by my fellow ibew linemen to run safety meetings. I am not looking to give the company ammunition by having guys sign stuff. I am looking for a way to get 150 other workers to perform good quality job briefings. I know we have some crews that are good at it but i am looking to help steer some of the weaker crews in a new direction. maybe a template or map might help? Doesn't osha require companies over a certain size to document job briefings any way?

HEAVY DUTY
12-11-2008, 06:53 PM
No pa ben I must not be able to read. I am sorry that I mis read your post. My fault.

PA BEN
12-11-2008, 06:58 PM
No pa ben I must not be able to read. I am sorry that I mis read your post. My fault.
Been there done that. I try to blame it on "posting while on beer":D

PA BEN
12-13-2008, 03:16 PM
The only way an employer, at least in my State, can prove a tailboard is conducted is by a paper trail. Shall is a strong word in the Safety Rules.

WAC 296-45-015 Scope and application.

(9) “Shall” and “must” as used in this chapter make the provisions mandatory. “Should,” “may,” or “it is recommended” are used to indicate the provisions are not mandatory but are recommended.




WAC 296-45-135 Job briefing.

The employer shall ensure that the leadworker conducts a job briefing with the employees involved before they start each job. The briefing shall cover at least the following subjects: Hazards associated with the job, work procedures involved, special precautions, energy source controls, and personal protective equipment requirements.

IN THE SHADOWS
12-14-2008, 06:09 AM
have been around as long as linework. Formalized sign-off sheets for tailboards have not. Were added to the equation in recent years to cover the employer's butts only, AND to add another bullet to their "discipline gun" they shoot at ya in the event of an accident.

Good Journeymen know when a tailboard is required and when it isnt regardless of whether a formal sheet needs to be turned in with your employer or not.

If your job requires distribution, transmission, or substation hot work, you are STUPID if ya dont do a tailboard. It aint any more complicated than that.:mad:

Bull Dog
12-14-2008, 12:39 PM
I agree with you. We have forms that you just put a check mark in each box then everyone signs. Not a big deal to me. Then you forget about the thing and keep your eyes open for the things that really count. All the tail boards in the world won't help if you don't watch out for yourself and everyone else.

AEE/linehand
12-15-2008, 10:18 PM
"Good Journeymen know when a tailboard is required and when it isnt regardless of whether a formal sheet needs to be turned in with your employer or not." Shadows

I realize that "good journeymen know", but what about a not so good journeyman or a young guy stuck working for a foreman that is a really bad communicator. you cant just throw them away and say they shouldnt be here cause they aint a super lineman. that is not reality. how do you help the weaker communicators to improve with out giving management a tool? today it seems like safety reflects on the entire workgroup or company instead of the individual. whether your union or non, utility or construction, you still want your company to do well or sooner or later the worm will turn.

rcdallas
12-15-2008, 11:14 PM
Tailboard, what is that?

Where I am at I have yet to see one. The main thing I am for is with new guys, when I first came in it was just snatch and grab, monkey see monkey do... that in particular I do not care for, stressful enough starting out, even more not knowing what the hell is going on.

I do see where some minor work, being with the same guys knowing how everyone works with each other not a big deal, however I feel a crew foreman should still take a minute and say hey you do this and I'll do that.

PA BEN
12-21-2008, 12:04 PM
Tailboard, what is that?

Where I am at I have yet to see one. The main thing I am for is with new guys, when I first came in it was just snatch and grab, monkey see monkey do... that in particular I do not care for, stressful enough starting out, even more not knowing what the hell is going on.

I do see where some minor work, being with the same guys knowing how everyone works with each other not a big deal, however I feel a crew foreman should still take a minute and say hey you do this and I'll do that.
This is the very reason Co. and Utility's require a written tailboard sheet.

Phoenix-7
12-22-2008, 05:38 PM
Tailboard, what is that?

Where I am at I have yet to see one. The main thing I am for is with new guys, when I first came in it was just snatch and grab, monkey see monkey do... that in particular I do not care for, stressful enough starting out, even more not knowing what the hell is going on.

I do see where some minor work, being with the same guys knowing how everyone works with each other not a big deal, however I feel a crew foreman should still take a minute and say hey you do this and I'll do that.

Does that mean you start working on different phases at the same time?
Where is the team work come into play?
Holy Shit, you are lucky you are still alive!

rcdallas
12-23-2008, 08:22 AM
Does that mean you start working on different phases at the same time?
Where is the team work come into play?
Holy Shit, you are lucky you are still alive!

That just means I've learned to read the writing on the wall and have put forth into going somewhere else.

AEE/linehand
12-29-2008, 08:12 PM
does any one have any examples of a tailboards sheet that they have to fill out?

rcdallas
12-30-2008, 05:49 PM
From what I remember at lineschool it would have things like

PPE
Ambient Noise
Voltages
Traffic Hazards
Weather Conditions

Now it's just sign here the -next- morning... guess the signature gets forged if someone is killed (hopefully not).

Pootnaigle
12-30-2008, 08:39 PM
Thats the whole damn problem with em, All the little boxes are things that some dipshit who knows nothing of linework decides to place on the form. There is precious little on any of those forms that even remotely apply to the actual job. They are nothing more than a very generic and useless ( unless yer trying to cover yer ass) FORM . A real tailboad has to do with the specific Job at hand and any and all obstacles that can be spotted before hand. it should include The how we gonna do it's, as well as the who is gonna do it, and the why it needs to be done. Before the work ever begins every man on the crew should know exactly what is expected from him .They should also know where they are located ( an adress of somekind) in case an emergency does crop up, and a phone number or some other kinda contact for emergency help. the ground help should be trained in hurt man rescue, including CPR and bucket rescue. an overall assessment should be made to insure the crew has enough qualified people to perform the job at hand. And at the slightest change of plans every crew member should be made aware of the change be fore the job progresses.
Thats a tailboard . Its also called teamwork, everyman on the same page at the same time.

CPOPE
12-31-2008, 05:20 AM
From what I remember at lineschool it would have things like

PPE
Ambient Noise
Voltages
Traffic Hazards
Weather Conditions

Now it's just sign here the -next- morning... guess the signature gets forged if someone is killed (hopefully not).

A video on the subject FYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctqzydl3oaw

PA BEN
12-31-2008, 08:19 PM
Will that video explains it all. I guess wtdoor67 well have a problem with it, because he believes you don't need a tail board for simple job's like setting a pole.:rolleyes:

wtdoor67
12-31-2008, 09:00 PM
You guys act as if tailboards are something new. It's just the formal written ones I think are silly. Tailboards, especially in distribution work have always been around. Just not written down and signed.

If safety awareness is only increased by a "tailboard", then I think some are in the wrong trade if they have to be constantly reminded that a hazard exists.

If OSHA mandates you must do them then I guess there is no choice. However I sorta looked at the fatalities and burn accidents that have reported here and I saw approx. a dozen since early Nov. this year. Now that's not a very impressive record I don't think. I think the powers need to be looking deeper than just mandating tailboards etc. Training and supervision must be looked at. My favorite bitch is not having a first line supervisor from the trade. I have seen several that weren't and they just had to basically trust the judgement of their crew foremen. Not a good system but if you're a management buddy then I guess that's the system you will get.

It just gives me a sick feeling when I hear of a guy getting toasted. Even worse is the pain and loss their families feel. You see letters etc. from their family sometimes and it just makes it painful to see someone's life snuffed out by lack of experience and poor judgement on someone's part.

It's sometimes difficult to give a good analogy of this subject for me sometimes. In the little video when I see 2 very experienced men given a step by step explanation of what they must do it just gives me a lot of cynicism, especially when the example is such a simple job. Then I see one man alone go up in the primary and cover up. Yeah it's dangerous as hell but just send one person up to cover the primary. Plenty of people are gonna say. It's safe to cover primary alone. There are plenty of things folks can do alone, but the line must be drawn somewhere. I know of people changing out bad transformers alone in the climbing days, but that doesn't make it safe.

I guess a good analogy would be after experiencing hunting for 20 years being reminded ever time you pick up a gun that you might shoot yourself. It eventually just falls on deaf ears.

PA BEN
01-01-2009, 09:45 AM
When I lived in whitetail country and deer were hit every night on the road, I would remind friends that were over at my house and driving home at night to "Look out for deer". This would put it in there mind to look out of deer. A reminder doesn't hurt, someone might not have his head in the game because of something going on in there life at the time. BTW, I don't think it's a good idea to have one person covering phases.

Hatteras
01-06-2009, 02:42 PM
#1. You are an experienced hand and know the co's specs and hardware. You're assigned to a crew that's framing H fixtures for some wood transmission line. As you load up with the rest of the hands and head out for the ROW, your fellow hands inform you that they have all the equipment and hardware scattered etc. Need a tailboard?

#2. The job is to load the material and go to a certain address and set the 5 poles. You can tell by the hardware alone that it's just an average area lite type job. On the way to the location the foreman informs you that all ya'll need to do is frame and set the poles etc. and that the serviceman will come by in his little bucket and hook the duplex wire to it's overhead source. Need a tailboard?

#3. The job is to terminate URD primary and secondary in pad mts. that have been set previously with the wire on the inside etc. Nothing can be energized until your crew makes up the dip source. Need a tailboard?

#4. The job is to change out a bad OH transformer. The foreman gets the pole number, pot size etc., address from the boss and after loading the pot you proceed to the location. You glance up the pole and notice the troubleman has lifted the hot clamp stinger and of course the cut out is open also. It's just a simple single phase dead end pole. Need a tailboard?

#5. You and crew are given 3 services to upgrade, from #2 to 1/0, all single phase overhead. Helping the service man to catch up. Since each has it's own pot, and outage arrangements have been made it's really simple to do. Need a tailboard?

#6. A couple of secondary poles with only 1/0 triplex on them have started to lean. It's decided to put down anchors and hang guys on the both of them. Need a tailboard?

If you answered yes to any of the above, then I don't know how to deal with you. If people have to be warned continually that using digger trucks, putting down outriggers, digging pole holes, moving and setting poles have some hazards then I don't know how to deal with you. There are some things that are so routine that if a person had to be reminded constantly of them then I would regard him as a little shy of a full load.

I'm just trying to emphatize that mandatory, written tail boards are largely BS.

Door - OSHA requires a tailboard be conducted for each job. The employer must be able to prove one was held, and the employer is free to decide how they want to document that tailboards are conducted. The reg does give some leeway for routine jobs. From 1910.269:

1910.269(c)
"Job briefing." The employer shall ensure that the employee in charge conducts a job briefing with the employees involved before they start each job. The briefing shall cover at least the following subjects: hazards associated with the job, work procedures involved, special precautions, energy source controls, and personal protective equipment requirements.
1910.269(c)(1)
"Number of briefings." If the work or operations to be performed during the work day or shift are repetitive and similar, at least one job briefing shall be conducted before the start of the first job of each day or shift. Additional job briefings shall be held if significant changes, which might affect the safety of the employees, occur during the course of the work.
1910.269(c)(2)
"Extent of briefing." A brief discussion is satisfactory if the work involved is routine and if the employee, by virtue of training and experience, can reasonably be expected to recognize and avoid the hazards involved in the job. A more extensive discussion shall be conducted:
1910.269(c)(2)(i)
If the work is complicated or particularly hazardous, or
1910.269(c)(2)(ii)
If the employee cannot be expected to recognize and avoid the hazards involved in the job.

Note: The briefing is always required to touch on all the subjects listed in the introductory text to paragraph (c) of this section.