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Linemanblood
07-06-2009, 05:13 PM
What is your companies fall restraint policy for climbing poles? Do they give you any break using the devcie on poles with telephone and cablvision garbage( drop running vertical , cable converter boxes telephone steps etc.) on it while try to get to neutral.

T-Man
07-07-2009, 07:44 AM
we are issued the bucksqueeze and a rope lanyard, you start the climb in the squeeze so when you come to a pole step or drop you put the lanyard over the top of the obstacle and unbelt the squeeze then if you go higher than two feet above the last obstacle you need to have the squeeze on again. We are allowed to use a screwdriver to hold the lanyard while installing riser and duct cause the squeeze is in the way for that. We can also use the lanyard like the old belt if we are climbing over steps as long as you can't fall more than two feet into the arrest system. It's not pretty but eight is eight and if it takes all day to be safe so be it.

Ski_Digger
10-03-2009, 10:59 PM
It has not happened yet. I should keep my big yapper shut but no bucksqueeze yet.
Free climbin or hichhikken our choice unless poles are ice covered then I do think the safy book say with a belt and doublin over everything.:confused:
Just wonderin last time this was brought up, I looked into that new cable one for climbin (can not rember the name) is it any better? than bucksqeezin it.
Ski

loose neutral
10-04-2009, 03:26 PM
The idiots we work for decided to enforce this cluck (buck) squeeze 100%. We argued that it was too slow and cumbersome to perform a pole top rescue. They said in an emergency such as life or limb, that we could use our original brown leather safety. Now they have decided to take our leather safeties away from all of us and hide them somewhere. They are telling us to use the yellow floppy ass nylon safety from the cluck squeeze if we need to rescue. All this from people who have never climbed anything but a 6' stepladder.:mad:

gritter
10-06-2009, 08:04 PM
Right now we can free climb up to catv or tel .Then we have to belt in with the regular pole strap.Now here comes the fun part we have the yellow seat belt thing that we have to use when we come to next obstruction.
We have a "choker" belt but we only have to use that in in bad weather ice wind and big wood 50' and up
They want to go ground to ground with rubber too waitin on that one
Be safe

MI-Lineman
10-06-2009, 10:08 PM
The dumd ass pukes up in the offices need to realize THERE AINT NO SUBSTITUTE FOR PROPER TRAINING!!!: And that includes climbing!!

AEPline
10-07-2009, 07:51 PM
my company is 100% buck squeeze, jelco, or miller. We can use what ever we want as a secondary belt-- most guys use an 8' rope safety. My garage is about 50-50 between the bucksqueeze and jelco. Speaking for my self, I hate the bucksqueeze. The jelco is not much different than a normal belt. NO DOUBT it is a pain in the butt.

hobbyknocker
10-07-2009, 08:39 PM
I have a Jelco and try not to use it when I can get away with it. As for a second belt, I will not use that stupid retractable belt. I'll use either a second buck strap or I'll climb in my harness and just choke the lanyard around the pole or I use a large grouper and clip it onto whatever hardware that I feel is safe.

Edge
10-07-2009, 09:13 PM
GD Fu(ksqueeze here at Dominion... would have rather had them cut my sack off...

what a useless peice of garbage...

Edge

wildcard
10-12-2009, 10:30 PM
More bull sH@@ to use.Why in the hell does all this safety crap come out ?answer some one fell and we have to fix it so the anouther 40'000 lineman don't.Plus we can sell a anouther safety tool to a company .Yes training would be great but not cost effective (shit sound like them).We use ladders sometimes to access the pole ,and some dumb A^^ said we have to have a way to save the lineman from the ladder.So they came up with this deal the the person going up has to set up be for he can go to work.It work great on a dead pole with know hardware on it .Every yearv we have to do the training for this and the only set we have is the set for training .cost to much to get all the crews one.Safety is number one to the company when it is cost effective.example FP&L What a SH&T company to work for.

johnbellamy
10-13-2009, 12:16 AM
GD Fu(ksqueeze here at Dominion... would have rather had them cut my sack off...

what a useless peice of garbage...

Edge

Like they already have.:D

For what it's worth Brother.........

Johnny B.

LAMartin.CVEC
10-13-2009, 08:40 PM
Here at CVEC all apprentices that have been hired since about a year ago are required to wear the Bucksqueeze fall protector. Remember, since OSHA defines fall restraint or arrest in the same category either one requires that you be decelerated by a shock absorbing lanyard fixed to a "Dee" ring positioned at the back (think of your bucket harness). The Bucksqueeze, Jelco, Stopfall and various and sundry others that have cropped up in the past 10years or so for woodpole "fall arrest" are in fact no such thing. They are merely "fall protection devices; you can still cut out and fall a few feet, slapping into the pole some hardware, mounting bolts etc. Not to mention the fact that momentum is not (!) decelerated, leaving you to the mercy of the full impact--even if it is only for a few feet.

Journeyman have the option to use such a device here at CVEC, I myself have been issued a Bucksqueeze however, if is still hanging in the third bin on the drivers side of the bucket I'm in charge of... BEHIND my Bashlin 88 and its 54N-2HL and my BD14 with polished gaffs and CCP pads.

We Journeyman at CVEC have and will continue to fight against contraptions as these as the majority of use feel that proper training and technique are fare more critical to the job of climbing poles than more gadgets are.

Here in Division 3, we've hired 3 apprentices in the past 2 years or so, one had already "graduated" if you will from the Bucksqueeze. He free climbs now to his work and then "belts in". Most of us are of the opinion that if the other two decide to stay with the bucksqueeze then that's their decision. After all it doesn't matter how long it takes to get to the work as long as you know what to do when you get there.

Work safely,

LAMartin
Journeyman CVEC

MI-Lineman
10-14-2009, 04:00 PM
We had two "POTENTIAL" apes fall in the bucksqueeze, one from 40 ft to the ground and one about half way? If you freek (which most will) and grab the pole the fn thing can't "squeeze".:mad:

Edge
10-14-2009, 10:00 PM
yeah I'm only required to wear the GD thing working on the bustion side of things and I'm an OT whore even as the sun's setting on my career... guess ya can't take the dog outa the wood if thats where he wants to die...

I don't work the low side much... big storms and pick up calls for cats... but WTF.... I can freeclimb a 100 foot lattice as long as I got a dring on my back but can't limb a 40 foot stick with out a GD'ed peice of shit that kills my shoulders my neck and back? fuggin joke I swear...

just glad I usually stick to the high side of life...

Martin... you boys at CVEC do a great job of keeping the lights on... my wife thanks ya... keep fightin it... hell as far as I know you guys might be the last power company on the east coast that can free climb... glwt

oh and JB... your right...

for what it's worth...

Edge

johnbellamy
10-15-2009, 09:43 PM
They will re-think this, they just throw thing's out there without merit.

Still nothin where I work, Let's make a deal, the rest of the country can do whatever you want, glove, bucksqeeze, whatever, just leave us here in the northwest alone, deal?

Work safe, work how ya want, do what ya want, just don't make us all do it.

Peace my brother's,

Johnny B.

RR E.T.
10-17-2009, 05:50 AM
we are using the miller now too with a nylon lanyard and a meat hook ughhh they want us to have 3 points of contact what a crock a little overkill we went from our leather belts to this overnight a new amtrak policy

climbsomemore
11-12-2009, 11:39 AM
Pole choker-Hurt man rescue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

while working for that major midwestern company I did proctor a lot of HMR training.

Our AP's had to learn "secondary" rescue (same as any other..but the test was at 22'). I kept records for several years, and the average time (ground to ground) was about 2:45.

Those guys did it again later on at 45 feet.... the average time was still 2:45

The first bunch of pole choker folks...times went over 5 minutes and the longest one we had was over 7 minutes...at 22 feet.

Company has since dropped time for qualification. So much for records and documentation eh?

Joe Guy
01-11-2010, 10:32 AM
The dumd ass pukes up in the offices need to realize THERE AINT NO SUBSTITUTE FOR PROPER TRAINING!!!: And that includes climbing!!

I dont know about that. Because gravity still applies. I am a linemen in Ontario, work for Hydro One. I have always worn fall arrest, I mean why risk it? If you kick out while free climbing, you're toast. Don't understand the mentality. No amount of training will stop the laws of gravity. I agree some rules are stupid (ground to ground rules suck), but when it comes to fall protection... i am a major voice against such practices.

thrasher
01-11-2010, 11:12 AM
We are another Coop in Virginia that has taken the attitude that until such time as OSHA flat requires full fall protection we will not require the bucksqueeze or Jelco etc. We do have one journeyman here who wears a second belt and hitch hikes the pole then uses the second belt to move over obstructions. We believe training and practice is the deciding factor, not a bucksqueeze. Due to our terrain, lots of swamps, our guys still routinely climb.

old lineman
01-11-2010, 11:39 AM
I dont know about that. Because gravity still applies. I am a linemen in Ontario, work for Hydro One. I have always worn fall arrest, I mean why risk it? If you kick out while free climbing, you're toast. Don't understand the mentality. No amount of training will stop the laws of gravity. I agree some rules are stupid (ground to ground rules suck), but when it comes to fall protection... i am a major voice against such practices.

Spoken like a true Hydro One lineman.
'Ground to ground sucks', since 1936 the ground to ground rule has worked for most linemen in this trade but you and your brothers hold out in spite of the evidence that your 4 foot rule SUCKS.
Several years ago a lineman working in St. Catherines was electrocuted by 120 volts from a bucket. He was violating the EUSA 'ground to ground rule'. If he was working for Hydro One he would have been following your rules.
My question is, "how can you be following all the rules and be killed".
Because the rule is wrong. It sucks as you say.
Hydro One, eh!
The Old Lineman

Joe Guy
01-11-2010, 01:52 PM
Spoken like a true Hydro One lineman.
'Ground to ground sucks', since 1936 the ground to ground rule has worked for most linemen in this trade but you and your brothers hold out in spite of the evidence that your 4 foot rule SUCKS.
Several years ago a lineman working in St. Catherines was electrocuted by 120 volts from a bucket. He was violating the EUSA 'ground to ground rule'. If he was working for Hydro One he would have been following your rules.
My question is, "how can you be following all the rules and be killed".
Because the rule is wrong. It sucks as you say.
Hydro One, eh!
The Old Lineman

Last time i checked that lineman working in St Catherines was working on live 120 in wet conditions with no rubber gloves. If the line is de-energized and isolated, you wont get a shock, but yes wearing your leathers while working on live secondary isnt a good practice. When we are doing live line we wear rubber gloves (unless its stick work above 27.6). Since Ontario Hydro became Hydro one, we have had only 3 fatalities, 2 of them linemen one an electrician. Of those deaths, one, the electrician was mistakenly took the wrong ground off that was grounding a 500 kV bus inside a TS. In stations there is a ground to ground rule. Anyway i just think the rule ground to ground, wearing them all the time no matter what is insulting on intelligence. But when you rely on just your skill to save you... what happens when you screw up? Anyway I believe that you went on a tangent. PS... Ontario is not governed by the EUSA, we have our own utility rules

lewy
01-11-2010, 04:28 PM
You are partially correct EUS&A is responsible for the local utilities ,but we both have to follow the Electrical Utility Safety Rules, there are just some supplemental rules near the end that only apply to EUS&A. I personally do not have a problem with ground to ground when there are energized conductors on the pole. I can see how you would not care for it on transmission, but I have never worked transmission so if I am wrong in my thinking I am sure some one will tell me.

old lineman
01-11-2010, 07:59 PM
Last time i checked that lineman working in St Catherines was working on live 120 in wet conditions with no rubber gloves. If the line is de-energized and isolated, you wont get a shock, but yes wearing your leathers while working on live secondary isnt a good practice. When we are doing live line we wear rubber gloves (unless its stick work above 27.6). Since Ontario Hydro became Hydro one, we have had only 3 fatalities, 2 of them linemen one an electrician. Of those deaths, one, the electrician was mistakenly took the wrong ground off that was grounding a 500 kV bus inside a TS. In stations there is a ground to ground rule. Anyway i just think the rule ground to ground, wearing them all the time no matter what is insulting on intelligence. But when you rely on just your skill to save you... what happens when you screw up? Anyway I believe that you went on a tangent. PS... Ontario is not governed by the EUSA, we have our own utility rules

ISN'T A GOOD PRACTICE, bull roar, it's suicidal.
Perhaps it's a mental fart you had but I thought that you always isolated, tested, then de-energized.
When doing live line work you wear rubber gloves great! I would think you would have to.
Ironically most electrocutions occur to linemen who never really intended to actually contact the conductor but did inadvertently. I've investigated too many accidents where the victim couldn't give a reason why he was where he was when the contact occurred.
When linemen are electrocuted the percentage of hand to another part of the body contacts are in the low 90% range.
Seems logical to me that simply wearing rubber gloves would prevent about 90% of the contacts.
You are absolutley wrong. Ontatio must follow EUSA rules. Period.
The only utility that can follow their own rules is Hydro One.The two sets of rules are identicial save for a couple of supplemental rules as Lewy said.
The old Lineman

Joe Guy
01-11-2010, 08:32 PM
You are partially correct EUS&A is responsible for the local utilities ,but we both have to follow the Electrical Utility Safety Rules, there are just some supplemental rules near the end that only apply to EUS&A. I personally do not have a problem with ground to ground when there are energized conductors on the pole. I can see how you would not care for it on transmission, but I have never worked transmission so if I am wrong in my thinking I am sure some one will tell me.

yes but, we always use rubbe gloves while live line work is happening on the pole above us, or while guiding the pole in the hold with insul. pole tongs. Thats just common work practices, that I am sure are used everywhere (unless its 115, then you use live line ropes to guide the pole)

Joe Guy
01-11-2010, 08:38 PM
ISN'T A GOOD PRACTICE, bull roar, it's suicidal.
Perhaps it's a mental fart you had but I thought that you always isolated, tested, then de-energized.
When doing live line work you wear rubber gloves great! I would think you would have to.
Ironically most electrocutions occur to linemen who never really intended to actually contact the conductor but did inadvertently. I've investigated too many accidents where the victim couldn't give a reason why he was where he was when the contact occurred.
When linemen are electrocuted the percentage of hand to another part of the body contacts are in the low 90% range.
Seems logical to me that simply wearing rubber gloves would prevent about 90% of the contacts.
You are absolutley wrong. Ontatio must follow EUSA rules. Period.
The only utility that can follow their own rules is Hydro One.The two sets of rules are identicial save for a couple of supplemental rules as Lewy said.
The old Lineman

Wow... easy there old times, so I skipped a step! What I am implying, is that you have already done said steps, and now it is de-energized. What is the purpose of ground to ground then? We have rules that work. Not many linemen are electrocuted in ontario. You are right though, when you are within the vicinity you must where the proper PPE or use approves live line tool methods, or practices. I really believe you are misinterpreting what I am saying here, or the rules of our company. Reason we can follow our rules is because they exceed OHSA rules and the ESA. LAst time I checked American rules are different than Canadian ones. Electrical contacts are rare in our country, and when they do happen, it was because someone was doing something they were not supposed to...

old lineman
01-12-2010, 11:38 AM
Hey Joe,
EUSA and Hydro One have the only rules for working on voltages above 600 volts. OHSA never went there so we don't supersede them.
They left the development of the rules to the experts. Which translates to tradesmen developing the rules and not some management guy in an ivory tower.
Therefore, they are logical, all encompassing and meaningful.
Thankfully the MOL recognized that they were lost when it came to our industry.
As you know they did dictate our fall restricting system and that suits us just fine.
By the way Ontario is the safest place in the world to work. For at least 5+ years we've done better than Sweden. Our WSIB (WCB elsewhere) rate is less the one dollar per 100 dollars pay role. By comparison a carpenter in Florida is over $60.
If you don't cheat on the 4 foot rule that's good.
The Old Lineman

Joe Guy
01-12-2010, 05:07 PM
yeah i have never cheated, I think what I mean is some utilities that are required to use rubber gloves all the time, regardless of what they are doing. Maybe my understanding on the ground to ground rule is wrong. But if I am not don't you think thats a little silly?

lewy
01-12-2010, 05:18 PM
ground to ground is only when there is energized conductor on the pole, once the line is grounded we wear our leather gloves, we also follow the same rules as you when it comes to using leather gloves doing stick work, but if you are in a bucket & you have a (live) phase in your jib you have to put your gloves on to change the insulator when you touch the pole.

Joe Guy
01-12-2010, 05:38 PM
yeah we have those rules too... i suppose I didn't understand the term ground to ground

MI-Lineman
01-12-2010, 10:39 PM
I dont know about that. Because gravity still applies. I am a linemen in Ontario, work for Hydro One. I have always worn fall arrest, I mean why risk it? If you kick out while free climbing, you're toast. Don't understand the mentality. No amount of training will stop the laws of gravity. I agree some rules are stupid (ground to ground rules suck), but when it comes to fall protection... i am a major voice against such practices.

Well for one because that's all you know! Second you jumped in the middle of a (old) discussion! Read everything I've said about the CHICKENSTRAP! It's not the answer is my point! I'm not going to type the 4 months of sh!t I already did on this topic in one night so you can do your homework and look back at ALL of what I said but there are other solutions!

Bottom line it's a piece of sh!t that restricts us from doing our job in a more proficient and stress free to the body (and mind in some cases!:cool:) manner!

You guys gonna de-energize EVERYTHING so ya don't risk being accused of havin a "Cowboy" mentality?:rolleyes:

It's our f$ckin job! If ya can't get over "Gravity" then get out!

lewy
01-13-2010, 06:51 AM
Well for one because that's all you know! Second you jumped in the middle of a (old) discussion! Read everything I've said about the CHICKENSTRAP! It's not the answer is my point! I'm not going to type the 4 months of sh!t I already did on this topic in one night so you can do your homework and look back at ALL of what I said but there are other solutions!

Bottom line it's a piece of sh!t that restricts us from doing our job in a more proficient and stress free to the body (and mind in some cases!:cool:) manner!

You guys gonna de-energize EVERYTHING so ya don't risk being accused of havin a "Cowboy" mentality?:rolleyes:

It's our f$ckin job! If ya can't get over "Gravity" then get out!

You guys gonna de-energize EVERYTHING so ya don't risk being accused of havin a "Cowboy" mentality?:rolleyes:

If we want to work in this province we have no choice about fall restraint, but I do not understand the comment about de-energize everything.

heelwinch
01-13-2010, 10:33 AM
You guys gonna de-energize EVERYTHING so ya don't risk being accused of havin a "Cowboy" mentality?:rolleyes:

If we want to work in this province we have no choice about fall restraint, but I do not understand the comment about de-energize everything.

Cowboy mentality.

using steps to complete a job that might endanger yourself our others around you.

So if you can't climb without some type of fall arrest, you might as well kill the power and bring your wife in to take care of business. There's no cowboy mentality in that process.

Take the skill out of a "skilled profession" what do you have left?

"Welcome to McDonalds, can I take your order for you."

I've had many apes drag cause I wouldn't give them a break on climbing, only to see them return a year or 2 or 3 later with a JL ticket and no better in the stirrups then they were when they dragged up 2 years earlier.
They were fiberglass cowboys, always wanting to ride the elevator to work. Good thing about them boys was you didn't have to worry about working with them on the ROW jobs, they'd turn around in the show up parking lot first day.

Most guys I started with had the same mentality I did. First time I went up in a 80' bucket I bought crapped myself, never liked the feeling, I always preferred being on the structure. They tried getting me on the skid of chopper once tying in a static... No thanks, I'll either climb it or move on to the next job. It's a control thing, controlling your own destiny, not the chopper pilot who woke up hung over or the buckettruck that was assembled on a Friday afternoon.

old lineman
01-13-2010, 11:35 AM
yeah we have those rules too... i suppose I didn't understand the term ground to ground

If you have trouble with 'ground to ground", that's rubber gloves on before you leave the ground and on til you are back on the ground.

'Rest to rest' means rubber gloves on before the boom leaves the stored position and kept on til the boom is back in the rest position.

'Lock to lock' means that after you unlock the access door rubber gloves go on before the access door is openned and stay on until the access door is closed once again.
The Old Lineman

old lineman
01-13-2010, 11:56 AM
MI Lineman,
Your use of a term CHICKEN STRAP says it all!
You've just created an atmosphere whereby anyone using the strap appears to be a pussy in your estimation. You've put your nose into somebody else's affairs.
Men like to be thought of as men , not girly men, so they feel intimidated by your use of the term. Most who are young and trying to impress the older guys or fit in will shun the strap just to be one of the gang.
That mentality has caused an untold number of deaths in the work place throughout the ages.
If you don't want to use a second belt or a fall restricting system that may be your choice for now. But I cannot understand why you feel it's your duty to put down people who want to protect themselves more that you do.
Not a lot of linemen fall while climbing poles, that's true, but I've known some that have and the injuries sustained range from none to death.
I'd suggest that you mind your peas and ques and let others chose their methods of protecting themselves they feel comfortable with.
What they do is really no skin off your ass.
The Old Lineman

Joe Guy
01-13-2010, 05:42 PM
MI Lineman,
Your use of a term CHICKEN STRAP says it all!
You've just created an atmosphere whereby anyone using the strap appears to be a pussy in your estimation. You've put your nose into somebody else's affairs.
Men like to be thought of as men , not girly men, so they feel intimidated by your use of the term. Most who are young and trying to impress the older guys or fit in will shun the strap just to be one of the gang.
That mentality has caused an untold number of deaths in the work place throughout the ages.
If you don't want to use a second belt or a fall restricting system that may be your choice for now. But I cannot understand why you feel it's your duty to put down people who want to protect themselves more that you do.
Not a lot of linemen fall while climbing poles, that's true, but I've known some that have and the injuries sustained range from none to death.
I'd suggest that you mind your peas and ques and let others chose their methods of protecting themselves they feel comfortable with.
What they do is really no skin off your ass.
The Old Lineman

At least you and I old Lineman can agree on one thing... actually I think you and I can agree on all of it. Now to the MI Linemen... LOL Wow... well see I do 115 kV stick work all the time with a prefectly fine fall restrict. I mean, are you on commision MI Lineman? Last time I checked most linemen are paid by the hour. Take my wife to do it LOL. I like what you say Mister, it just goes to show you that our quality of life seems a bit higher up here. Evolve. Its what you do. But you say my wife right? Well lets say something happens and I am on a 100 ft pole... something happens, my fall arrest system will still make me come home to her, as with yours.. well lets just say gravity still applies.
Anyway hope your mentality changes, because your mentality is in my opinion... not quite civilized

Joe Guy
01-13-2010, 05:45 PM
Cowboy mentality.

using steps to complete a job that might endanger yourself our others around you.

So if you can't climb without some type of fall arrest, you might as well kill the power and bring your wife in to take care of business. There's no cowboy mentality in that process.

Take the skill out of a "skilled profession" what do you have left?

"Welcome to McDonalds, can I take your order for you."

I've had many apes drag cause I wouldn't give them a break on climbing, only to see them return a year or 2 or 3 later with a JL ticket and no better in the stirrups then they were when they dragged up 2 years earlier.
They were fiberglass cowboys, always wanting to ride the elevator to work. Good thing about them boys was you didn't have to worry about working with them on the ROW jobs, they'd turn around in the show up parking lot first day.

Most guys I started with had the same mentality I did. First time I went up in a 80' bucket I bought crapped myself, never liked the feeling, I always preferred being on the structure. They tried getting me on the skid of chopper once tying in a static... No thanks, I'll either climb it or move on to the next job. It's a control thing, controlling your own destiny, not the chopper pilot who woke up hung over or the buckettruck that was assembled on a Friday afternoon.

Oh yeah... if you aren't feeling comfy in a bucket... then you are just a pole monkey. To be a linemen you have to do er all bud. You shuold really try a pole chocker man. Thats what I use, nothing wrong with it, who cares if it takes you an extra minute to get up there... Big Freaking Deal!

Joe Guy
01-13-2010, 05:48 PM
Sorry it really gets me mad when hillbilly linemen who think this is some kind of daredevil sport instead of a "skilled trade"
Being skilled means you use your head. Guess you havent felt the sting of gravity yet. Keep testing it... you never know when it's gonna bite.
I will stay up here in our nice province with the best workplace safety record... oh yeah did I mention our province is a bit less effected by the recession? And look... powerlines are still built within the budget. And I still made 100+ last year. Oh well...

MI-Lineman
01-13-2010, 05:55 PM
MI Lineman,
Your use of a term CHICKEN STRAP says it all!
You've just created an atmosphere whereby anyone using the strap appears to be a pussy in your estimation. You've put your nose into somebody else's affairs.
Men like to be thought of as men , not girly men, so they feel intimidated by your use of the term. Most who are young and trying to impress the older guys or fit in will shun the strap just to be one of the gang.
That mentality has caused an untold number of deaths in the work place throughout the ages.
If you don't want to use a second belt or a fall restricting system that may be your choice for now. But I cannot understand why you feel it's your duty to put down people who want to protect themselves more that you do.
Not a lot of linemen fall while climbing poles, that's true, but I've known some that have and the injuries sustained range from none to death.
I'd suggest that you mind your peas and ques and let others chose their methods of protecting themselves they feel comfortable with.
What they do is really no skin off your ass.
The Old Lineman

Well you're another one who doesn't look back past the last few posts of someone before ya make ASSumptions!! I took this job knowin I could get killed or hurt fallin, being shocked or killed, A FRIGGIN CAR HITTIN ME WHEN I PUT OUT CONES! THAT'S WHY I MAKE MORE THAN SOMEONE AT MCDONALD'S!

So my point is why don't we kill everything so we can't be electrocuted AND OUR WAGES DROP IN HALF CAUSE IT WON'T BE AS DANGEROUS A PROFESSION!:mad:

The reason I use the term "CHICKEN STRAP" is to see who takes the bait? Huh look at that!:cool:

Are ya offended cause you have to use as a government requirement OR CAUSE YOU'RE AFRAID OF HEIGHTS!:rolleyes:

I deal with the damn thing every day so you shouldn't assume I don't know what I'm talkin about! It's not my duty to put somebody down for workin safe WHICH A LOT OF RETIRED LINEMAN DID FOR DECADES WITH OUT IT! I just weed out the "pussies" (your word!) who can't get over the fear of heights while helpin me with PRIMARY CONDUCTORS! So yea it is skin off my ass!

You're puttin words in my mouth by saying in my "estimation ANYONE who uses it is a pussy"! WRONG! All the discussions on this topic (THAT YOU FAILED TO LOOK BACK AT?) usually lead to the FACT this device lets SOME (NOT ALL) "PUSSIES" IN TO OUR TRADE EVEN EASIER THAN EVER!

The "Chicken strap" which I refer to the Miller and Buckingham models hinder and restrict our abilities every day AND RAISE ONE OF THE BIGGEST SAFETY CONCERNS, POLE TOP RESCUE! There may be a better device that I would be all for by Bashlin and that's fine!

You should "mind your p's and q's" and do a little more research on things before you come at me! And yes I do believe there are "pussies" in our trade because of your beloved (that's a joke by the way!) "Chicken strap" and if ya deny that then you're a GOOD EXAMPLE!:D

MI-Lineman
01-13-2010, 06:07 PM
Sorry it really gets me mad when hillbilly linemen who think this is some kind of daredevil sport instead of a "skilled trade"
Being skilled means you use your head. Guess you havent felt the sting of gravity yet. Keep testing it... you never know when it's gonna bite.
I will stay up here in our nice province with the best workplace safety record... oh yeah did I mention our province is a bit less effected by the recession? And look... powerlines are still built within the budget. And I still made 100+ last year. Oh well...

MAN YOU GOT A LOT TO LEARN KID? You "within budget" but you apparently by your words WORK SLOW! Yea stay up there kid! You'd probably run back home like a few other of your buddies with your tail between your legs!

And stop preachin proper etiquette when ya can't address someone properly yourself!:cool:

MI-Lineman
01-13-2010, 06:20 PM
"And I still made 100+ last year. Oh well...[/QUOTE]

Huh? That's makes two of us!

But guess what makes us different? I kept more each week then you ever will!:D

lewy
01-13-2010, 06:29 PM
I know I will be repeating my self, but when I started we were aloud to free climb & the highest pole I free climbed was a 60 because the opportunity never came to climb a higher one. Than after my second year fall restraint was introduced & we had every complaint I have heard so far & other than it is a little slower none of them have happened, I am fortunate to say that in over 20 years no one at my work has had to perform a rescue, there has never been a fatality or loss of limb. As I stated earlier if you want to work in this province you have to use fall restraint, but climbing is just 1 of many skills not the only skill to be a good lineman. We have crews working live line everyday on voltages from 4kv 8kv 12kv 13kv 28kv & 44kv. We have lineman who are as good as any lineman who do not free climb & we have lineman who do not know up from down, as I am sure is the same everywhere. As far as the cowboy mentallity I like working live, but if I can do the same job dead with no customers off I will do it dead I don't have to prove anything, if it means spending an hour to cut in a set of switches live to isolate a bad corner to work it dead (no one out of power) I will do it.

heelwinch
01-13-2010, 06:47 PM
Oh yeah... if you aren't feeling comfy in a bucket... then you are just a pole monkey. To be a linemen you have to do er all bud. You shuold really try a pole chocker man. Thats what I use, nothing wrong with it, who cares if it takes you an extra minute to get up there... Big Freaking Deal!

Son, i was retired before you even thought about linework. Pole monkey, damn straight, I could put any jack ass in a bucket and teach him linework, as long as it was road side. What ya gonna do when it's not, then you'd have to call me to tkae are of business.

It's all good though, your a youngster with lots of opinions, just not to many of them are right. No biggy you'll figure it out as life passes you by.

115?? I used to let my kids build them lines in the back yard.

MI-Lineman
01-13-2010, 07:09 PM
I know I will be repeating my self, but when I started we were aloud to free climb & the highest pole I free climbed was a 60 because the opportunity never came to climb a higher one. Than after my second year fall restraint was introduced & we had every complaint I have heard so far & other than it is a little slower none of them have happened, I am fortunate to say that in over 20 years no one at my work has had to perform a rescue, there has never been a fatality or loss of limb. As I stated earlier if you want to work in this province you have to use fall restraint, but climbing is just 1 of many skills not the only skill to be a good lineman. We have crews working live line everyday on voltages from 4kv 8kv 12kv 13kv 28kv & 44kv. We have lineman who are as good as any lineman who do not free climb & we have lineman who do not know up from down, as I am sure is the same everywhere. As far as the cowboy mentallity I like working live, but if I can do the same job dead with no customers off I will do it dead I don't have to prove anything, if it means spending an hour to cut in a set of switches live to isolate a bad corner to work it dead (no one out of power) I will do it.

That's fair enough! The problem I got ALL JOKIN ASIDE is that damn pole choker was the first "Fall Restraint" (Hows that?:D) our apes had to use and I sh!t you not they still fell PROPERLY USING THE THING? I know you wont agree but I (and who am I asks J. Guy I'm sure:D) saw it happen! Plus they replaced them twice for slipin WAY out of adjustment and made several FACTORY advised repairs?

Then Buck squeeze slips and two apes fell in climbing school the same damn day in it! Plus Buckingham (or who ever makes it I forget?) visited an ape climbing school job and told our ape committee they designed it for the journeyman lineman who climbs "occasionally"? Not for everyday use which explains the slipin out of adjustment!

If you like it fine but damn it don't tell me and the thousands of Lineman who haven't that we're now Cowboys and unsafe! Yea I do get off on the idea that not everyone can do this job AND THAT I MAKE GOOD MONEY DOING IT! Maybe if someone disagrees then they're in the wrong profession?;)

As for burnin a stick I've done my fair share! I climbed poles older than Heelwinch in the Big D. and more than once after burnin them!

Joey G.'s gotta get a few more years under his belt before he runs his mouth like that!:cool:

old lineman
01-13-2010, 08:25 PM
For many years now I have said, "it's better to have it, and not need it, than need it and not have it".
That certainly applies to the skill of an efficient and timely rescue. I've always taught that in the case of an emergency you can free climb.
MI Lineman I think you may have said that also. So we agree. Horray.
That's one for the record book.
It is a legitament concern that someday a fellow lineman will take too long to get to his stricken co-worker.
For anyone to say that nobody should use a fall restraint system because one day he may have to rescue somebody is exactly like my neighbor.
He won't wear his seat belt because he says if I ever have an accident and end up in water I'll drown.
Both agruments are hair brained.
How many linemen do you know who have had to rescue their buddy?
I'll bet even less than linemen who've seen grounds work.
May be that's why we can accept this system so easily up here, because we work safe enough that it's not a major concern anymore. Just a thought.
The Old Lineman

Trbl639
01-13-2010, 10:10 PM
We had to start using the Buck Squeeze, about a year before I retired......didn't use it that much, but enough to know I hated the damn thing, after free climbing for 35+ years, it was just like learning to climb again.......they finally let us take it off, if we were within 2 ft of an obstruction, but only if ya had the rope safety.....no retractable seat belt............

It was Mandatory, but if I would have had to do a Rescue.......I'd just used the rope safety, free climbed and said to hell with it, got my Brother down and taken a lay-off, or firing!!!!!!!

MI-Lineman
01-13-2010, 10:21 PM
For many years now I have said, "it's better to have it, and not need it, than need it and not have it".
That certainly applies to the skill of an efficient and timely rescue. I've always taught that in the case of an emergency you can free climb.
MI Lineman I think you may have said that also. So we agree. Horray.
That's one for the record book.
It is a legitament concern that someday a fellow lineman will take too long to get to his stricken co-worker.
For anyone to say that nobody should use a fall restraint system because one day he may have to rescue somebody is exactly like my neighbor.
He won't wear his seat belt because he says if I ever have an accident and end up in water I'll drown.
Both agruments are hair brained.
How many linemen do you know who have had to rescue their buddy?
I'll bet even less than linemen who've seen grounds work.
May be that's why we can accept this system so easily up here, because we work safe enough that it's not a major concern anymore. Just a thought.
The Old Lineman

Are you sh!tin me?:eek: You're comparing millions of drivers on the road to thousands of line workers workin on ELECTRICITY? Not to mention there's a slight (mind you) possibility you would still be coherent enough to push the stupid release and get out! And I've been to Canada quite a few times and you drive so slow how the hell do you get into accidents? Oops! There's that "cowboy mentality"!:D

Gish! You guys work safe up there (in hooks) or just out of the buckets all the time?

What if aliens come down and start abducting only Canadians for gruesome bodily experiments and your strapped to the pole with your "FALL RESTRAINT"....NA F$CK IT...YOUR "CHICKEN STRAP"! That's enough reason for me not to wear it!:D (please tell me you have a sense of humor?)

I don't know about you but we've got a lot of porcelain breakin and that jerkin ya do (and there's know way around it!) doesn't help! Or the slap spans in the big cities, how the hell do ya get up the pole AND NOT BURN SH!T DOWN WITH OUT CHEATIN THE STRAP!

I haven't seen to many (and I helped in training apes) apes that looked comfortable in the fall arrest let alone free climb during an emergency! I'm glad you guys haven't had the need HONESTLY (That's f$ckin AWESOME!) but I only hope and pray IF it happens "Gravity" isn't an issue with who ever's comin to get ya!

By the way I've seen and known a few myself that have been burnt and I've also seen your system and as I didn't build ours originally I still got to maintain it and there's a big reason we loose more here on our old ratty systems EVEN WHILE WORKIN SAFE!

Hey is it the "cowboy mentality" that makes you think you're better than someone else cause you may have worked higher voltages?:rolleyes: NOT REFERIN TO YOU MIND YOU BUT YOUR LITTLE YOUNGIN J.G.!

Look Old Timer, I have a lot of pride in what I do and I ALWAYS WORK SAFE and never put myself AND OTHERS unnecessarily in harms way! If a pole isn't fit for climbing then common sense says find another way! Other wise I'm free climbing till they force that "Chicken Strap" on me!

KEEP UP THE GREAT SAFETY RECORD!!!!!

Joe Guy
01-14-2010, 06:10 AM
That's fair enough! The problem I got ALL JOKIN ASIDE is that damn pole choker was the first "Fall Restraint" (Hows that?:D) our apes had to use and I sh!t you not they still fell PROPERLY USING THE THING? I know you wont agree but I (and who am I asks J. Guy I'm sure:D) saw it happen! Plus they replaced them twice for slipin WAY out of adjustment and made several FACTORY advised repairs?

Then Buck squeeze slips and two apes fell in climbing school the same damn day in it! Plus Buckingham (or who ever makes it I forget?) visited an ape climbing school job and told our ape committee they designed it for the journeyman lineman who climbs "occasionally"? Not for everyday use which explains the slipin out of adjustment!

If you like it fine but damn it don't tell me and the thousands of Lineman who haven't that we're now Cowboys and unsafe! Yea I do get off on the idea that not everyone can do this job AND THAT I MAKE GOOD MONEY DOING IT! Maybe if someone disagrees then they're in the wrong profession?;)

As for burnin a stick I've done my fair share! I climbed poles older than Heelwinch in the Big D. and more than once after burnin them!

Joey G.'s gotta get a few more years under his belt before he runs his mouth like that!:cool:

I can run my mouth as much as I want. I could freeclimb, but I wont. Have a wife at home, and its really unfair to risk that on her. I have never kicked out ever since my 1st year, once I got the hang of it. Ive been in this trade for almost 7 years. I am sure in a real life emergency I would take the risk and break a rule (likely get up there illegally). Its true i still have a lot to learn about this trade, but thats true for any linemen, one who has been here for 7 years or 20. But the point is, you're ignorant attitude to safety is what bothers me. Its an insult to the intelligence of linemen. I always had the impression that a skilled trades person does the smartest thing, not the fastest. I respect linemen who did it the old way, a lot of the guys I work with who have seen the change. Anyway, I can see safety where you are comes second to production.

heelwinch
01-14-2010, 06:26 AM
I can run my mouth as much as I want.





Anyway, I can see safety where you are comes second to production.


That you can, and do.






A skilled tradesman has the confidence in his ability to maintain all safety requirements and still be productive. The 2 go hand in hand to a real JL.

MI-Lineman
01-14-2010, 07:06 AM
I can run my mouth as much as I want. I could freeclimb, but I wont. Have a wife at home, and its really unfair to risk that on her. I have never kicked out ever since my 1st year, once I got the hang of it. Ive been in this trade for almost 7 years. I am sure in a real life emergency I would take the risk and break a rule (likely get up there illegally). Its true i still have a lot to learn about this trade, but thats true for any linemen, one who has been here for 7 years or 20. But the point is, you're ignorant attitude to safety is what bothers me. Its an insult to the intelligence of linemen. I always had the impression that a skilled trades person does the smartest thing, not the fastest. I respect linemen who did it the old way, a lot of the guys I work with who have seen the change. Anyway, I can see safety where you are comes second to production.

You respect NO ONE! I never said I worry about production over ANYONES SAFETY! I said the "Chick Strap (just cause it bothers ya!:cool:) "restricts us from doing our job in a proficient and stress free manner!"

LOOK UP THE WORD PROFICIENT SMART GUY! Like I said you need a few more years under your belt before you run your mouth like that! In other words your not PROFICIENT with words enough to play with the big boys!

I have been trained LIKE ALL REAL LINEMAN to get the job done safely and quickly! Why quickly you ask? For a commission? For production?

NO! So I and my coworkers aren't standing on the same pole for hours lookin like a dumb ass (somethin you're apparently real familiar with!) with sore feet! Why the hell would anyone KNOWINGLY take longer to do anything unless you're lazy and trying to avoid the next job!

PROFICIENCY, SPEED, AND SAFETY all come together with Union Labor! It's what keeps givin us contracts!

I'll ask again.....Does the fact you think you're better cause you think you've worked higher voltages than some on here constitute someone accusin you of having the UNSAFE cowboy mentality?:rolleyes:

flashman
01-14-2010, 10:28 AM
The only thing that I can honestly say is that the bucksqueeze is a big pain. By the time I climb up the pole and start working my hands are freezing. It takes twice as long to get to where I need to do the work and just as long to get back down. For trouble work it is one of the most dangerous piece of equipment that I'm forced to use. Troublemen are supposed to be a little more experienced than regular lineman and climb in adverse weather conditions. I don't like using the stupid belt and I think it's more dangerous than my normal climbing belt. I can hardly wait to get out of this business because it will only get worse not better.

Joe Guy
01-14-2010, 05:46 PM
You respect NO ONE! I never said I worry about production over ANYONES SAFETY! I said the "Chick Strap (just cause it bothers ya!:cool:) "restricts us from doing our job in a proficient and stress free manner!"

LOOK UP THE WORD PROFICIENT SMART GUY! Like I said you need a few more years under your belt before you run your mouth like that! In other words your not PROFICIENT with words enough to play with the big boys!

I have been trained LIKE ALL REAL LINEMAN to get the job done safely and quickly! Why quickly you ask? For a commission? For production?

NO! So I and my coworkers aren't standing on the same pole for hours lookin like a dumb ass (somethin you're apparently real familiar with!) with sore feet! Why the hell would anyone KNOWINGLY take longer to do anything unless you're lazy and trying to avoid the next job!

PROFICIENCY, SPEED, AND SAFETY all come together with Union Labor! It's what keeps givin us contracts!

I'll ask again.....Does the fact you think you're better cause you think you've worked higher voltages than some on here constitute someone accusin you of having the UNSAFE cowboy mentality?:rolleyes:

You really are an ignorant person aren't you? Lazy? See the thing is I can do my job proficiently while using proper safety procedures. So really who is the better linemen here? I could freeclimb, in fact you sorta hafta doing stick work (I dont need to tell you that, you're a REAL Linemen). We have a jelco seatbelt on our belt. Speed and proficiency? So... when say... a linemen is killed on your contract because of not wearing proper fall protection, what then? Do you still get the contract? But whatever, its very clear to me you DO have the cowboy mentality, and you just wont get it. I am proficient at my job, I do believe I work for one of the best utilities in north america. I mean even your country has called us down for hurricane relief. Why you ask? Because we do things proficient and in a safe manner. I cant remember the last time I was on a pole for hours. I do not think I am better than anyone, I never insiniated that at all, you did. I have never been retricted by my what you call "chick strap"
Just goes to show you you can't adapt. I believe Darwin put it best... those that do not adapt will not survive. It is only a matter of time before that changes down south, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that its safer. But apparently for you just want people like you in the trade. Let me tell you something. An older linemen used to freeclimb back in the day when in ontario that was allowed. He had a hissy fit when they implemented the polechocker. However he said it took him only an extra 2 minutes to his job.
So really if an extra 2 minutes or so is going to make your feet sore... whose the real linemen?

MI-Lineman
01-14-2010, 06:34 PM
You really are an ignorant person aren't you? Lazy? See the thing is I can do my job proficiently while using proper safety procedures. So really who is the better linemen here? I could freeclimb, in fact you sorta hafta doing stick work (I dont need to tell you that, you're a REAL Linemen). We have a jelco seatbelt on our belt. Speed and proficiency? So... when say... a linemen is killed on your contract because of not wearing proper fall protection, what then? Do you still get the contract? But whatever, its very clear to me you DO have the cowboy mentality, and you just wont get it. I am proficient at my job, I do believe I work for one of the best utilities in north america. I mean even your country has called us down for hurricane relief. Why you ask? Because we do things proficient and in a safe manner. I cant remember the last time I was on a pole for hours. I do not think I am better than anyone, I never insiniated that at all, you did. I have never been retricted by my what you call "chick strap"
Just goes to show you you can't adapt. I believe Darwin put it best... those that do not adapt will not survive. It is only a matter of time before that changes down south, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that its safer. But apparently for you just want people like you in the trade. Let me tell you something. An older linemen used to freeclimb back in the day when in ontario that was allowed. He had a hissy fit when they implemented the polechocker. However he said it took him only an extra 2 minutes to his job.
So really if an extra 2 minutes or so is going to make your feet sore... whose the real linemen?

Union contracts as in agreements between utilities and its OWN EMPLOYEES! Your young age is showin threw Joey G.! Seems I remember (when you were still pickin buggers from your little snot nose!:D) sending several crews to Canada for an ice storm! Not to mention Thiro brought Canadian workers in Detroit on work visas and the few that stayed refused to climb BECAUSE OF THEIR "CHICKEN STRAP" and are probably still trying to figure out how to kill the looped Delta primary and looped secondary to be able to do anything! Oh I guess that probably seems like the "Cowboy mentality" to ya but see IT'S IN MY JOB DESCRIPTION TO MAINTAIN LINES WITH MINIMAL OUTAGE TIME TO CUSTOMERS IF AND WHEN POSSIBLE!

Course you wouldn't know or remember that cause your to young! Once again you make ASSUMPTIONS with out doin a little research first!

Now your "Cowboy mentality" pops up again with the idea you insinuate that your so damn proficient in your job AND ALL THE CONTINUOUS MENTIONING OF TRANSMISSION WORK! Really? Hey do you do transmission work? I didn't get that the first few times! You can't count ground work KID!:cool: God your dumb!

I follow every safety rule to a tee, never said I was better for anyone (your the one worried about "The better Lineman here"!) because I free climb (A PERFECTLY FINE SAFETY RULE HERE!), only that (evidently) people like you who are afraid of heights (which doesn't matter with or with out your BELOVED belt...YOU STILL CAN'T BE WORRIED ABOUT HEIGHTS!) into my trade so I have to worry whether your thinkin about the hot jumper in your hands or the fact your off the ground!

Not only are ya ignorant yourself, your arrogant, lack knowledge, lack experience, and your hiding the fact your scared sh!tless to do your job but can push through it with the FAULTY "Chicken Strap"!

All that attitude's gonna get someone hurt but I guess it takes more than the WHOPPING 7 years ya got to figure it out (for you mind ya!):D

heelwinch
01-14-2010, 06:58 PM
Union contracts as in agreements between utilities and its OWN EMPLOYEES! Your young age is showin threw Joey G.! Seems I remember (when you were still pickin buggers from your little snot nose!:D) sending several crews to Canada for an ice storm! Not to mention Thiro brought Canadian workers in Detroit on work visas and the few that stayed refused to climb BECAUSE OF THEIR "CHICKEN STRAP" and are probably still trying to figure out how to kill the looped Delta primary and looped secondary to be able to do anything! Oh I guess that probably seems like the "Cowboy mentality" to ya but see IT'S IN MY JOB DESCRIPTION TO MAINTAIN LINES WITH MINIMAL OUTAGE TIME TO CUSTOMERS IF AND WHEN POSSIBLE!

Course you wouldn't know or remember that cause your to young! Once again you make ASSUMPTIONS with out doin a little research first!

Now your "Cowboy mentality" pops up again with the idea you insinuate that your so damn proficient in your job AND ALL THE CONTINUOUS MENTIONING OF TRANSMISSION WORK! Really? Hey do you do transmission work? I didn't get that the first few times! You can't count ground work KID!:cool: God your dumb!

I follow every safety rule to a tee, never said I was better for anyone (your the one worried about "The better Lineman here"!) because I free climb (A PERFECTLY FINE SAFETY RULE HERE!), only that (evidently) people like you who are afraid of heights (which doesn't matter with or with out your BELOVED belt...YOU STILL CAN'T BE WORRIED ABOUT HEIGHTS!) into my trade so I have to worry whether your thinkin about the hot jumper in your hands or the fact your off the ground!

Not only are ya ignorant yourself, your arrogant, lack knowledge, lack experience, and your hiding the fact your scared sh!tless to do your job but can push through it with the FAULTY "Chicken Strap"!

All that attitude's gonna get someone hurt but I guess it takes more than the WHOPPING 7 years ya got to figure it out (for you mind ya!):D

No sense getting your underwear in a bunch over Joe. I mean he's just a boy who clamps the front of his Kellums. How much experience could one have if their pullin stunts like that.
If he is truly on a tranmission crew he is definately not a lineman, he said and I quote" I have never been on a pole for more than an hour".
I've spent days on one structure, too long to count hours. That's what tranmission is about, big wire, big poles, long days. He's most likely a ground hand that got to climb a pole one day with the GF's bucksqueeze.

Joe Guy
01-14-2010, 07:15 PM
No sense getting your underwear in a bunch over Joe. I mean he's just a boy who clamps the front of his Kellums. How much experience could one have if their pullin stunts like that.
If he is truly on a tranmission crew he is definately not a lineman, he said and I quote" I have never been on a pole for more than an hour".
I've spent days on one structure, too long to count hours. That's what tranmission is about, big wire, big poles, long days. He's most likely a ground hand that got to climb a pole one day with the GF's bucksqueeze.

Wow... seems the belligerence keeps on coming in. Look, you guys can insinuate all you want. I don't care, I know what I do, and thats fine. The point I am saying its plain stupidity to climb without fall protection. Period. Its been a little while since I was doing any stringing, lately its just been 115 sticking, but now that you mention it yes, it is only two, but I think the reason 3 stuck out to me was because a foremen I once worked for did that, and for some reason today I still have to kick that habit. Like I said, I need to learn alot as well, but I sure as hell have put my time in, worked long hours. Its ok, one day you guys will wish you had a fall arrest. Why have the potential for something to go wrong?
Anyway back on topic. I dont know what a bucksqueeze is, never heard of it. Always used the polechocker 3 (they have polechocker 4s now). Its easy, and safe and doesnt take you much time to get up there. I have been up a pole for hours, but that was sticking 115. Distribution, 9 times out of 10 we used buckets, but when we were on our hooks we weren't up there for very long. Live line work on your hooks is a totally different experience, but I dont need to tell you guys that.
I am not afraid of heights. Doesnt matter if you are afraid of heights or not, a fall can either cripple you for life, or kill you. Its your choice. Point in note. This is something I don't tell many, I have had to make a rescue on a tower, and I nearly got fired for it because I climbed with no fall protection to get to the guy quickly. That is the ONLY time I would, and the only time I feel it would be ok to break the rule. Any other time, is just foolishness. But that being said, what happens if I fell? Slipped, kicked out? I see the company's point, I would be just another victim. But I stand by fall arrest because it saved my life once as well. I used to cheat when I was younger, cuz I was a cowboy. Had some bad influences, but it was an unnecessary risk. I just dont understand why you can't see that?
Oh yeah, and MI-Linemen? I was never on the attack. You began the attacks, the belligerent comments and ignorant attitdude to me. I already dealt with a fatality in 2008. Once you see a coworker leaving in a hearst...

Joe Guy
01-14-2010, 07:20 PM
Not only are ya ignorant yourself, your arrogant, lack knowledge, lack experience, and your hiding the fact your scared sh!tless to do your job but can push through it with the FAULTY "Chicken Strap"!

All that attitude's gonna get someone hurt but I guess it takes more than the WHOPPING 7 years ya got to figure it out (for you mind ya!):D

Yep, you're awesome, the best linemen on the planet. You freeclimb... and you are not scared of heights... bravo, you win. Yep im just a dumb kid, with no experience and no knowledge. You sure know how to make me smile, man. Keep up the good fight, hurry up get up there. Time's a wasting!

Edge
01-14-2010, 09:12 PM
JG you got an interesting signature... even more interesting when ya read how it reflects to what you post...


go to the safety forums... read past linework forums.... we've beat this issue to death...

me? I hate the fact that I was just given one choice... the buck squeeze.... I'm all about safety... if thats your GD motivation thats fine....

I can wear what I like when it comes to safety glasses... you gonna require me to wear a certain brand??? or just let me wear one that has your stamp?

last I was in da great white norte... they all had those contraptions and thats been well since the 90's... heard J4's are the thing now with those GD gripper teeth on 'em...

my thing is this...

let the Journeyman decide...

freeclimb...hitchhike...scarestrap...doublebelt... J4...stopfall...poleshark...lariat...bucksqueeze.. . WTF ever!!!

but let the Journeyman decide how he gets to the job and give him the use of what ever tools are available... or give him the option to buy his own!

and put your sarcasm in your back pocket... it usually don't fly well round here...

For what it's worth...

Edge


oh and MI check your pm's

lewy
01-14-2010, 09:15 PM
Joe the difference is the whole time you have been in the trade there has always been fall restraint & for us who have been around long enough north of the border we have had it for so long that it has become normal. We are no better or worse just because we use fall restraint. That is why it is hard for some to understand why some would not use fall restraint, but I agree with you the day will eventually come where they will all be using some form of fall restraint south of the border, it is already happening in some places.

hobbyknocker
01-14-2010, 09:30 PM
You guys need to agree to disagree. I've got a Jelco and I don't care for it very much. A safety, is a mechanical device that can fail. What do you do when it fails 110 feet off the ground and you aren't accustomed to freeclimbing? I think it is a great tool that should be utilized. At least enough to keep you comfortable enough to use it in an emergency situation. I do a bit of transmission work and I'm fairly certain that you are going to be on the pole for several hours at a time. I enjoy a little more freedom of movement on the pole when I can get away with not using a 100% fall protection belt. They are also not very much fun on square poles. Just my opinion. You guys play nice. Heelwinch, I've enjoyed your opinion on here. Hope to read more of your posts.

Joe Guy
01-14-2010, 09:43 PM
You guys need to agree to disagree. I've got a Jelco and I don't care for it very much. A safety, is a mechanical device that can fail. What do you do when it fails 110 feet off the ground and you aren't accustomed to freeclimbing? I think it is a great tool that should be utilized. At least enough to keep you comfortable enough to use it in an emergency situation. I do a bit of transmission work and I'm fairly certain that you are going to be on the pole for several hours at a time. I enjoy a little more freedom of movement on the pole when I can get away with not using a 100% fall protection belt. They are also not very much fun on square poles. Just my opinion. You guys play nice. Heelwinch, I've enjoyed your opinion on here. Hope to read more of your posts.

sorry just... i know im young, and have only been in the trade for 7 years... but in those 7 I have already witnessed a coworked plummet 120 ft to his death (it was a tower. For some reason he wasnt doing stuff properly). Thing is it nearly broke me. I was in a situation before when a guy passed out on a stiff ladder and just hung there. I ran up to rescue him because no one else on the crew was ably fit. Talk about a panic attack. Anyway it just upsets me, when people dont understand. I used to think like that too... let them decide. But I get a little emotional when I hear a fellow linemen dying. So I am sorry if I seemed pushy... not really a good impression. I just get a bit teary eyed when I think about that day. I am sure if you were in my position MI you would understand. I hope to god you never were, or ever will be.
- Joe

Edge
01-14-2010, 09:45 PM
pretty sure Joe is doing maintenance work... if he's not there for long...

prolly spar arms and bell change outs and what not... shit like that can take anywhere from 30 mins to 3-4 hours depending on how good your crew is types of equipment and the rest... but thats not the topic...

and don't get me off topic... I can go there with hellwinch... I've spent many hours on structures... usually on steel... waiting for the next section to fly in...

damn it almost went there...

Edge

MI-Lineman
01-14-2010, 10:10 PM
sorry just... i know im young, and have only been in the trade for 7 years... but in those 7 I have already witnessed a coworked plummet 120 ft to his death (it was a tower. For some reason he wasnt doing stuff properly). Thing is it nearly broke me. I was in a situation before when a guy passed out on a stiff ladder and just hung there. I ran up to rescue him because no one else on the crew was ably fit. Talk about a panic attack. Anyway it just upsets me, when people dont understand. I used to think like that too... let them decide. But I get a little emotional when I hear a fellow linemen dying. So I am sorry if I seemed pushy... not really a good impression. I just get a bit teary eyed when I think about that day. I am sure if you were in my position MI you would understand. I hope to god you never were, or ever will be.
- Joe

But see Joe G. that's what I mean! You don't know what I've been through and YES PEOPLE BEFORE YOU (which is why I made the comment about you jumpin in the middle of the discussion) AND ALSO YOU IMPLY I THINK I'M A COWBOY (which if ya couldn't tell I have horses:)) BECAUSE I DO WHAT I AND THOUSANDS BEFORE WERE TRAINED TO DO! SAFELY!

I worked in a town where ya saw or knew more than 1 guy who "went down"! I knew and worked with some of them.

I fell 3 times in a two week period! Why? For one I climbed two poles with shell rot that I knew they had and I still did it! That was wrong not free climbing them! I was trained to look for that and use other avenues for workin them poles out! So there's a good example of why we should have the fall restraints right? To take the stupid factor out of the equation! Make it so we don't have to think? THEN WE'LL BE DENERGIZIN EVERYTHING WE WORK ON AND MAKE HALF THE PAY! IT'S A HAZARDOUS JOB AND CO-WORKERS OR US WILL DIE OR GET HURT BUT I WAS TOLD THAT FROM DAY ONE AND GIVIN A CHANCE TO STAY OR LEAVE! I STAYED!

Most accidents result from "human error" which I call the "Human factor". Take that factor out and what do ya have?.............A pole standin there with know one able to work it because you could fall from poor decisions or get electrocuted from a poor decision!

My argument before you came about is there are other devices and procedures that could be easier and potentially safer that need to be explored? You can't deny there are some who slip in because they believe the choker or squeeze will save them! Sorry J.G., I know you think the choker is bullet proof but I actually was involved in training with them and the Buck squeeze and they had MAJOR safety and usability issues!

I'm for fall arrest but I haven't seen the answer yet in my opinion!
That's all Joe!

LINEHAND
01-14-2010, 11:27 PM
GREAT another over zealous self rightous know it all Canuck shoving his bullshit down our throat! Give it a rest not everyone does or even cares to do it your way dimwit! But what else is new, all this thread needs is CL:rolleyes:

Its amazing to me after reading all the Canucks that anyone outside Ontario has lights at all! Gimme a effin break!

I thought Old and all his crap was one of a kind! WOW

Joe Guy
01-15-2010, 01:37 PM
GREAT another over zealous self rightous know it all Canuck shoving his bullshit down our throat! Give it a rest not everyone does or even cares to do it your way dimwit! But what else is new, all this thread needs is CL:rolleyes:

Its amazing to me after reading all the Canucks that anyone outside Ontario has lights at all! Gimme a effin break!

I thought Old and all his crap was one of a kind! WOW

hmm yeah, well you're the best linehand. You are the best. Amazing, how can I be like you? I wish I was. I'm just a stupid canuk, who can't compare to you smart americans :eek:

Joe Guy
01-15-2010, 01:40 PM
But see Joe G. that's what I mean! You don't know what I've been through and YES PEOPLE BEFORE YOU (which is why I made the comment about you jumpin in the middle of the discussion) AND ALSO YOU IMPLY I THINK I'M A COWBOY (which if ya couldn't tell I have horses:)) BECAUSE I DO WHAT I AND THOUSANDS BEFORE WERE TRAINED TO DO! SAFELY!

I worked in a town where ya saw or knew more than 1 guy who "went down"! I knew and worked with some of them.

I fell 3 times in a two week period! Why? For one I climbed two poles with shell rot that I knew they had and I still did it! That was wrong not free climbing them! I was trained to look for that and use other avenues for workin them poles out! So there's a good example of why we should have the fall restraints right? To take the stupid factor out of the equation! Make it so we don't have to think? THEN WE'LL BE DENERGIZIN EVERYTHING WE WORK ON AND MAKE HALF THE PAY! IT'S A HAZARDOUS JOB AND CO-WORKERS OR US WILL DIE OR GET HURT BUT I WAS TOLD THAT FROM DAY ONE AND GIVIN A CHANCE TO STAY OR LEAVE! I STAYED!

Most accidents result from "human error" which I call the "Human factor". Take that factor out and what do ya have?.............A pole standin there with know one able to work it because you could fall from poor decisions or get electrocuted from a poor decision!

My argument before you came about is there are other devices and procedures that could be easier and potentially safer that need to be explored? You can't deny there are some who slip in because they believe the choker or squeeze will save them! Sorry J.G., I know you think the choker is bullet proof but I actually was involved in training with them and the Buck squeeze and they had MAJOR safety and usability issues!

I'm for fall arrest but I haven't seen the answer yet in my opinion!
That's all Joe!

you are right its not a perfect system, and there are always risks. Hell I used to forget to put my chocker on all the time, but have been a bit more observant lately. I understand it does limit you what you can do, but my point is, if its safer... would you not do it?

LINEHAND
01-15-2010, 03:14 PM
hmm yeah, well you're the best linehand. You are the best. Amazing, how can I be like you? I wish I was. I'm just a stupid canuk, who can't compare to you smart americans :eek:

Um evidently that is the way you see yourself! But typical awnser form a 26yr old know it all!!!!:rolleyes:


You said it man . . . . . . . . . . just a stupid canuck!;)

Joe Guy
01-15-2010, 04:14 PM
Um evidently that is the way you see yourself! But typical awnser form a 26yr old know it all!!!!:rolleyes:


You said it man . . . . . . . . . . just a stupid canuck!;)

are you going to say anything intelligent, or are you just going to insult me? Just remember, when the rules that we have up here ARE applied down in the south... who will prosper? People who evolve, or people like you who just cannot adapt? I can see you also are a bit of a bigot as well.

LINEHAND
01-15-2010, 06:16 PM
are you going to say anything intelligent, or are you just going to insult me? Just remember, when the rules that we have up here ARE applied down in the south... who will prosper? People who evolve, or people like you who just cannot adapt? I can see you also are a bit of a bigot as well.

Wtf are you talking about? U know what happens when you make assumptions dont ya:cool:

You got no clue about what you speak of. . . . . . . . . . . but you are 26 and quite obviously know it all. . . . . . . . . . dont believe him just ask him:rolleyes:

Bigot huh? Nah I just agreed wholeheartedly with your opinion of yourself . . . . . . . . . . just a stupid Canuck. . . . . . . . . . YEP I AGREE!!!!:D

heelwinch
01-15-2010, 08:16 PM
You guys need to agree to disagree. I've got a Jelco and I don't care for it very much. A safety, is a mechanical device that can fail. What do you do when it fails 110 feet off the ground and you aren't accustomed to freeclimbing? I think it is a great tool that should be utilized. At least enough to keep you comfortable enough to use it in an emergency situation. I do a bit of transmission work and I'm fairly certain that you are going to be on the pole for several hours at a time. I enjoy a little more freedom of movement on the pole when I can get away with not using a 100% fall protection belt. They are also not very much fun on square poles. Just my opinion. You guys play nice. Heelwinch, I've enjoyed your opinion on here. Hope to read more of your posts.

That is a valid point. I am totally unfamiliar with these devices as far as actual hands on. I had only heard of them and never seen one until I started reading this forum. I have looked them up on the web and seen a video or two on how they are used.
But like HK says what happens when you have a failure? First off chances are that failure is going to cause you some sort of disoreintation, are you going to be able to recover from that and get your ass back to the surface? Or is this going to be another type of rodeo event. Saving your pole bud from bucksqueeze failure.

HK you are in the minority with your opinion of my views. But I appreciate your encouragement.

Stephen.

Joe Guy
01-15-2010, 10:32 PM
Wtf are you talking about? U know what happens when you make assumptions dont ya:cool:

You got no clue about what you speak of. . . . . . . . . . . but you are 26 and quite obviously know it all. . . . . . . . . . dont believe him just ask him:rolleyes:

Bigot huh? Nah I just agreed wholeheartedly with your opinion of yourself . . . . . . . . . . just a stupid Canuck. . . . . . . . . . YEP I AGREE!!!!:D

Assumptions? I didn't make any assumptions, I just made an observation. Two totally different actions. Assumptions would mean I assume how you are without you giving me any reason for me to think that way. However, I have observed you making belligerent comments, which shows me you are incapable of participating in any intelligent argument. I am by no means a genius, hell far from it. But I can already assess that I have a bit more common sense than yourself. I didn't want to draw attention to your... obvious problem.
The fact that I bring valid points to the table, and you do not wish to even consider it, shows to me how narrow minded and simple you really are.
Now. If you don't have anything smart to say, don't bother. I respect MI for what he does, and him and I got a bit heated in our conversation, but he does know how to speak in an argument. I am confident he can see my points, as I have seen his. You though lack the skill in how to speak in an argument. So..... :D

LINEHAND
01-15-2010, 11:23 PM
hmm yeah, well you're the best linehand. You are the best. Amazing, how can I be like you? I wish I was. I'm just a stupid canuk, who can't compare to you smart americans :eek:


Well in that case keep up the good work cause you are spot on with this "observation" your arrogance is well deserved you do at least know this!!! The best part "Im just a stupid canuck" . . . . . . . . .good job, real insight there!!:eek:


Good day!

Joe Guy
01-16-2010, 09:34 AM
Well in that case keep up the good work cause you are spot on with this "observation" your arrogance is well deserved you do at least know this!!! The best part "Im just a stupid canuck" . . . . . . . . .good job, real insight there!!:eek:


Good day!

see i knew you couldn't handle an intelligent conversation.

Highplains Drifter
01-16-2010, 10:49 AM
Joe, give up son! Some day you will run into a young lineman like your self and it will remind you how obnoxious you where your self! http://bestsmileys.com/argue/1.gif

Joe Guy
01-16-2010, 11:07 PM
Joe, give up son! Some day you will run into a young lineman like your self and it will remind you how obnoxious you where your self! http://bestsmileys.com/argue/1.gif

I may be a bit obnoxious, but what I speak is the truth. I'm just saying... :D

copperlineman
03-09-2010, 05:09 PM
Some conversation going on here. I may as well add my two cents. I've posted these comments in the Safety Forum before, but here goes again.
The Bucksqueeze (BS) and other fall restraint systems are a good piece of equipment to have around. They sure come in handy on an old rotted pole, an icy pole, a tall pole in a wind storm, or other out of the ordinary situations. I'm one that always welcomes a better and safer way to do my job. But...
I am totally against the thing becoming a "Law" that everyone must follow. It also has it's down-side. Three reasons. Least important first.

It solves a problem that doesn't exit for many of us. I retired from a large investor owned that had over 1000 linemen and another 400 or more in underground who also climbed at times. In the 10 years prior to my leaving, we had two injuries from guys falling off poles. To outfit and train that many people would cost over 1 million dollars to solve a problem they don't have. I hate to talk money, but it has to come from somewhere and this stuff does cost money. It would also require a great many of us to learn how to climb all over again. I learned to keep my hands on the pole while climbing. If you slip, your hands are there to catch you. Most falls happen while belt climbing, not free climbing. Your hands are off the pole when you hitch-hike or use a BS.
Second, you can forget about a Pole Top Rescue. And don't think an accident can't happen, just because it hasn't. I know of at least 10 times guys have been taken off the pole and only 2 were contacts. The others were injury, sickness, and heat related. These can happen to anyone at anytime. There is no way a rescue can be done using a BS in the required amount of time. I've seen Canadians climb and they are good with those things, but not when there are multible obstacles on the pole. To navigate around phone, cable, our own secondaries, etc. takes too much time with fall restraint. To say we will "free climb" in an emergency is false. Once you get used to climbing with fall restraint, I'd be the last one to suggest you change your style in an emergency. That doesn't work. In an emergency, you do what comes natural and what you do the best or you're bound to screw up. Before I would require fall restraint, I'd get rid of the hooks and belts and buy some rear lot carts with buckets. Now; no climbing at all. Problem solved...until we get to number three.
Third. This one is hard to prove, but I know it when I see it. To be a lineman, one must be comfortable at heights. Simple as that. We work with high voltage and our window for error is very small. We have to think straight all the time, and think fast at others. I've been asked to do a few evaluations as a third party for people on a bubble. The only reason they made it through climbing school was they were allowed to belt-climb (because their company allowed it). Over 20 feet, their brains turned to mush. They passed the course because they were allowed to use a crutch. Now we're moving to where we will "require" a crutch. You'll see many more unqualified men in the field that don't belong there simply because they were not afraid to fall anymore. Falling is still on their minds as they work at heights. They're minds are not completely on linework. But they can deal with the falling part of it. I expect many more contact accidents in the future because the BS will allow more unqualified people to pass a climbing school compared to without the BS. Right now, I teach free-climbing. After you qualify, I'll show you the BS and other rigs, but you will be able to free climb or you don't qualify. And I've had literally hundreds of guys go through my climbing schools. Of course, they all didn't make it.

That's the short version of it. I'm afraid that companies are going to be forced to go to fall restraint in the long run. Look up OSHA's General Duty Clause. I'm sorry for the guys who have to put up with it.
Climbing is a lineman's duty. Climbing is how we get to work. It's the basic part. Can't climb? Find another job. I know I sound old fashioned, but it really is that simple. It's not a macho thing, or a cowboy thing, it's just part of the job. I don't want to be in the air with someone who's first thought is they will fall. I know where his mind is. Maybe that's why we used to have about a 70% drop out rate at climbing schools. Not everyone is qualified to do this work.
You may not agree with me and that's ok. I think I've earned my opinion after 39 years in this business. Just thought I would share it, but I know it's my opinion. Stay alert and work safe.

lewy
03-09-2010, 06:00 PM
"I've seen Canadians climb and they are good with those things, but not when there are multible obstacles on the pole. To navigate around phone, cable, our own secondaries, etc. takes too much time with fall restraint."
You are correct it does take longer, but we are talking minutes a small part of actually completing the job.
I would freeclimb in a rescue situation, but I did freeclimb when I first started, how the new guys would respond I do not know, but fortunatly we have never had to perform 1 in my 20 years.
"I expect many more contact accidents in the future because the BS will allow more unqualified people to pass a climbing school compared to without the BS."
This part has not happened up here, if anything our record is better, but we do not have a lot of contacts up here.

MI-Lineman
03-09-2010, 08:00 PM
I agree with your post Cooper but I to haven't seen an influx of contacts either? I will say that the "New breed" of apes comin in have less ambition to climb than in the past and they also have NO problem sharin that at times with fellow crew members! NOT ALL BUT MORE AND MORE EVERY DAY?:mad: I would never had even thought of givin a disgusted look at my journeyman when I was told to "Get my tools" let alone say somethin about it!:eek:

You hit the nail on the head about the "cost" and such! It's now ALWAYS about money anymore! What a shame!!

I don't believe that I should be forced to wear somethin as restrictin and ergonomically unfriendly as such a device but I also believe if places (like Canada) have used it so long and have accepted it then let them have it with out lookin down on them! They've learned to live with it and that's fine although I still don't know if they have systems as congested as some of our major cities?

WHY CAN'T WE DECIDE IF THE CONDITION (HEIGHT, AGE, CONGESTION, ETC.)OF A POLE WARRANTS USIN ONE?:mad:

More and more decision makin leaves us and comes from the office?:mad: Another shame!!

copperlineman
03-11-2010, 12:04 AM
Thanks guys for the comments. I know Canada has used fall restraint for many years now and it's good to know you haven't seen an increase in accidents...contacts or otherwise. That's incouraging. Maybe we can learn from you guys. Seems we have more than our fair share of injuries and fatalities.
In the US, we're just getting into the fall restraint stuff, so no, we won't see any increase here yet. The Bucksqueeze has only been around a few years. Buckingham has marketed it pretty good and it is a good product.
My concern is the future. You guys may be able to help me with some numbers, but from the research I do on the web, seems we average about 35 fatalities a year in linework in the US over the last 10 years (all fatalities, not just contacts). In the 90's, that number was about 23. Am I close? Seems we've already seen an increase. (not due to this issue) There was a link on this site to a newspaper article about de-regulation and it's affect on our workforce. We have half the linemen we had 20 years ago and our average age is over 50. What happens 10 years from now? I've seen for myself a number of guys coming into our work who are not qualified. How did they make it? We allowed them use a crutch in climbing school (belt climbing and/or fall restraint). I don't want to make them use a crutch and get more of these guys.

I don't want to see another OSHA standard. If your company doesn't climb that often, then make them wear fall restraint. But, don't make me do it because you want to or need to. I've seen more contact injuries than falls, yet no one is beating the drum to de-energize everything. That's what I've seen. Educate me if you've seen otherwise.
Take care.

watzamta
05-17-2010, 09:27 PM
Copper I couldn't agree more with you. I'm not kissing your ass or nothing but it is refreshing to hear somebody talk of our craft the way you do. After almost 20 years in this job I have seen some old timers and their experience leave this trade. It was always the little things that made a difference. Many of them taught me this craft including climbing. It is a hard earned skill. I still remember the first guy dropped out of our climbing school. All it took was him giving up and three more followed shortly after. Now fast foward to the present and I'am the insructor at the climbing school. We still teach free climbing to any height that your comfortable with. There is talk of the BS but nothing mandatory yet. I'm just afraid that forceing everyone to go to the BS that we might have guys stay in the craft that other wise would have droped out if not for the false sence of security it can create. Climbing is such a small part of our job that I worry about all the other aspects of it that really take alot of time and dedication to learn. Anyway they can keep their BS. Don't change a job that not everyone can or wants to do. We need hands that want to be hands with all the hard stuff that goes along with it.

west coast hand
05-18-2010, 02:32 PM
Here soon we will be just like the canadians and everywhere we will be wearing the BS and working everything DEAD??? We have candians that come down here on a work visa half of them are scared to glove 12 or 16kv like I tell all of them get the fuk out of here there's Americans on the books go back to your country... All they tell you is how great canada is,well then head north MF??? We can't go there and work and this BS and other fall restraint shit comes from is there because they are so scared of falling and high voltage. Sorry guys but I hate canadians and Canada...

lewy
05-18-2010, 04:32 PM
Fall restraint is what it is up here & I have made enough posts. Regarding working everything dead is wrong. We work live all the time , but if we can have the power off without having any customers off we will. I would hope that you do not judge all canadians based on some just like i would not judge all Americans by some on this board.

west coast hand
05-18-2010, 08:05 PM
Fall restraint is what it is up here & I have made enough posts. Regarding working everything dead is wrong. We work live all the time , but if we can have the power off without having any customers off we will. I would hope that you do not judge all canadians based on some just like i would not judge all Americans by some on this board.

What about the thing there trying to pass in Canada don't ask us to work it hot??? I'm sorry to say but I have never worked with a Canadian that was worth a sh&t,the IBEW was founded by a American Canada shouldn't even be IBEW, Americans can't cone there and clear the hall but yet you can come down here and take are money it ain't right when there are Americans on the books...

heelwinch
05-18-2010, 09:21 PM
There was an outfit here in NY a few years ago. Rumor has it from my buds that they called out the local hands and after a few mere weeks they drug up. This outfit was Canadian and after the locals drug they brought in all there hands from across the border.
They were working on Grid property and they done pissed alot of hands off.

I'll be damned if I can recall the outfit but it will come to me and I'll post it.

It's a fukkin shame that these Co. can come across the border and take the food out of willing mouths only because there policies are for women and not real lineman.
Throw your fukkin skid over your shoulder and get your fukkin ass up there and do the job. If you can't do that then you don't deserve to call yourself a lineman. Period.

MI-Lineman
05-18-2010, 09:29 PM
There was an outfit here in NY a few years ago. Rumor has it from my buds that they called out the local hands and after a few mere weeks they drug up. This outfit was Canadian and after the locals drug they brought in all there hands from across the border.
They were working on Grid property and they done pissed alot of hands off.

I'll be damned if I can recall the outfit but it will come to me and I'll post it.

It's a fukkin shame that these Co. can come across the border and take the food out of willing mouths only because there policies are for women and not real lineman.
Throw your fukkin skid over your shoulder and get your fukkin ass up there and do the job. If you can't do that then you don't deserve to call yourself a lineman. Period.

Thiro? (Excuse the spelling?)

heelwinch
05-18-2010, 09:31 PM
Thiro? (Excuse the spelling?)

That's it. Thanks

Edge
05-18-2010, 09:45 PM
I know i'm just going on with the off topic shit but I gotta chime in on this...

I spent alot of time up der in da great white norte ehh... worked several hundred miles of transmission... and did... I have no clue how many cut overs from SWER to true wye and such... and I trained and worked with a pile of good hands.....

I will agree with ya west coast... no local REGARDLESS of country should let anyone sit at home while others tramped on their work.... but maybe thats another thred... like outside contruction/port

'side it's in the name brother... International Brotherhood of Electrical Works...

hell how many illegals or working WHITE ticket down south in the RTW states...

for what it's worth...

Edge

MI-Lineman
05-18-2010, 09:47 PM
That's it. Thanks

No problem! We had'em for about 6 months in D. town! That might be a record for them?:rolleyes:

Edge
05-18-2010, 09:57 PM
yeah and as far as Thiro goes... gotta agree those frenchies (most of them 'becers) didn't impress me to much ... most of the hands I worked with were newflies... or form "out west" Sask... berta... or NWT...

lewy
05-18-2010, 10:10 PM
What about the thing there trying to pass in Canada don't ask us to work it hot??? I'm sorry to say but I have never worked with a Canadian that was worth a sh&t,the IBEW was founded by a American Canada shouldn't even be IBEW, Americans can't cone there and clear the hall but yet you can come down here and take are money it ain't right when there are Americans on the books...
That is for electricians not lineman

MI-Lineman
05-18-2010, 10:38 PM
God I wish this topic would die but like the damn belt it never will! Some day we ALL WILL be wearing it then some Lineman from some other country will be callin us pu$$ies (YES LIKE I'VE DONE!) and we'll have NO choice but to defend ourselves! I for one will still be here (God willing!:o) in this trade and will hopefully have found a way to deal with it or not but I am not leavin!

So why don't we direct our energy to wards comin up with somethin better or like someone else suggested BOYCOTT BUCKINGHAM, BASHLIN, MILLER, BLAH BLAH BLAH UNTIL THEY DO!

I don't think anyone agrees on local hands sittin at home while someone from the other side of the boarder takes our work but I've seen lousy Line hands from BOTH the U.S. and Canada and a lot of good ones!

The fact is we keep fallin and insurance keeps risin so these pencil pushin geeks up stairs just see a way to stop the cost...OOPS...I MEAN ACCIDENTS AND WHETHER THE IDEA CAME FROM CANADA OR ELSEWHERE THEY WOULD'VE FOUND IT EVENTUALLY!!!

Trbl639
05-19-2010, 12:58 AM
God I wish this topic would die but like the damn belt it never will! Some day we ALL WILL be wearing it then some Lineman from some other country will be callin us pu$$ies (YES LIKE I'VE DONE!) and we'll have NO choice but to defend ourselves! I for one will still be here (God willing!:o) in this trade and will hopefully have found a way to deal with it or not but I am not leavin!

So why don't we direct our energy to wards comin up with somethin better or like someone else suggested BOYCOTT BUCKINGHAM, BASHLIN, MILLER, BLAH BLAH BLAH UNTIL THEY DO!

I don't think anyone agrees on local hands sittin at home while someone from the other side of the boarder takes our work but I've seen lousy Line hands from BOTH the U.S. and Canada and a lot of good ones!

The fact is we keep fallin and insurance keeps risin so these pencil pushin geeks up stairs just see a way to stop the cost...OOPS...I MEAN ACCIDENTS AND WHETHER THE IDEA CAME FROM CANADA OR ELSEWHERE THEY WOULD'VE FOUND IT EVENTUALLY!!!

I gotta agree with ya on this!

One thing to add, since this BS or whatever ya want to call it is being forced on us by the companies, and more than likely eventually by OSHA....there is a Canadian Company, called Jelco, that makes the 'Pole Choker', which is a far better design that the Fsqueeze, so maybe we can learn from them, they've been using it for years! I don't like it any better than you , or any of us for that matter, but if ya get a chance, check it out, it's a lot easier and more lineman friendly........hell, it'll work like a regular skid, where the other crap won't........

thesilverfox
05-19-2010, 10:57 AM
The dumd ass pukes up in the offices need to realize THERE AINT NO SUBSTITUTE FOR PROPER TRAINING!!!: And that includes climbing!!

Mi-lineman, you are correct! with the bucksqueeze it forces people to adopt an improper climbing technique, especially for those that are just learning, its sad. If you get a chance to watch the buckingham video on the buck squeeze watch it, It is because of morons like the one demonstrating the buck squeeze is why some idiot invented this piece of crap! He breaks every rule in the book about proper climbing technique! I believe that if you develop and maintain a proper climbing technique then the climbing will take care of itself. If the trade would get out of the thought process of " if you can't get it with a buckit, f*ckit". I preffer the phrase " in the hooks or on the books".

MI-Lineman
05-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Mi-lineman, you are correct! with the bucksqueeze it forces people to adopt an improper climbing technique, especially for those that are just learning, its sad. If you get a chance to watch the buckingham video on the buck squeeze watch it, It is because of morons like the one demonstrating the buck squeeze is why some idiot invented this piece of crap! He breaks every rule in the book about proper climbing technique! I believe that if you develop and maintain a proper climbing technique then the climbing will take care of itself. If the trade would get out of the thought process of " if you can't get it with a buckit, f*ckit". I preffer the phrase " in the hooks or on the books".

Yeah man!!! Well put!!!

hobbyknocker
05-20-2010, 08:33 PM
The Pole Lariat by Bashlin is the best 100% fall protection belt available now. I have tried the Bucksqueeze, I have a Jelco, this is by far the easiest. It will fit around just about any 345 structure and can be used on distribution poles. It is also only a fraction of the price of the Jelco.

MI-Lineman
05-20-2010, 09:46 PM
The Pole Lariat by Bashlin is the best 100% fall protection belt available now. I have tried the Bucksqueeze, I have a Jelco, this is by far the easiest. It will fit around just about any 345 structure and can be used on distribution poles. It is also only a fraction of the price of the Jelco.

Our company "Instructors":rolleyes: claim the Bashlin isn't "100% FALL RESTRAINT?" They supposedly tried it and they claim you have to have it above your D-rings or if you cut out you'll keep goin?:eek:

Wouldn't surprise me though if they HAVE to say that cause maybe it's $10 more than the F$ck Squeeze they've had to update 3 or 4 times at I'm sure our cost!!!:mad: Not to mention we tried the Pole Smoke...I mean choker and they had apes fallin left and right AND THEN WE ATE THE COST OF PROBABLY 50 OR MORE OF'EM!!:mad:

I like the way it looks in use in the video!! Looks like free climbin like I like and then you use your normal buck!!

Edge
05-21-2010, 11:52 PM
most of the cats on here know my feelings about this....
and the lariet is close....


but GD'it...


why can't they just LEARN TO CLIMB!!!

for what it's worth...

Edge

SwampRat JR.
06-01-2010, 10:23 PM
Yup.:cool:Let me say the same thing over again so I have my name on the board.:mad:


Swampnation.:rolleyes:

electric squirrel
06-01-2010, 10:50 PM
Used the buck squeeze today, really wasn't that bad.Once I got the timing thing down it wasn't as bad as I thought.....But it was a mess getting me into it.:cool:

SwampRat JR.
06-02-2010, 12:43 AM
Yup.:cool:Anyone read this before, I will just type it again, one step closer to 10,000 I guess.:rolleyes:

Swampnation.:rolleyes:

climbsomemore
06-04-2010, 02:05 AM
[QUOTE=MI-Lineman;80821]Our company "Instructors":rolleyes: claim the Bashlin isn't "100% FALL RESTRAINT?" They supposedly tried it and they claim you have to have it above your D-rings or if you cut out you'll keep goin?:eek:


At Midland (when I was there) the 2 actual cutout victims we had at school were 0 for 2 with the Jelco. One guy had a controlled, soft fall from about 20 feet up... he was on the ground before he could open his hand and let the inner belt engage.

The other guy was about the same height..next thing I know...we were having a face to face conversation on the ground. I watched that one happen......he did too...and we never figured out what went wrong on that one.

We did get the Jelco company owner to come down ....he dodged questions like a pro..ask around..we probably had 20 apes, instructors, Ape commitee members and managers in that room. Someone made a lot of cash off that jelco deal...not just the dealers.

Buck sqeeze is probably a better product to get stuck with... and from what I hear the Bashlin product is OK too...if you must have such a thing.

Move it all to the curb..and buy a bunch of one ton buckets and those tracked rear lot bucket and derrick machines....$125K will pay for a broken leg...or 1 of those machines.

Trbl639
06-04-2010, 06:06 PM
[QUOTE=MI-Lineman;80821]Our company "Instructors":rolleyes: claim the Bashlin isn't "100% FALL RESTRAINT?" They supposedly tried it and they claim you have to have it above your D-rings or if you cut out you'll keep goin?:eek:


At Midland (when I was there) the 2 actual cutout victims we had at school were 0 for 2 with the Jelco. One guy had a controlled, soft fall from about 20 feet up... he was on the ground before he could open his hand and let the inner belt engage.

The other guy was about the same height..next thing I know...we were having a face to face conversation on the ground. I watched that one happen......he did too...and we never figured out what went wrong on that one.

We did get the Jelco company owner to come down ....he dodged questions like a pro..ask around..we probably had 20 apes, instructors, Ape commitee members and managers in that room. Someone made a lot of cash off that jelco deal...not just the dealers.

Buck sqeeze is probably a better product to get stuck with... and from what I hear the Bashlin product is OK too...if you must have such a thing.

Move it all to the curb..and buy a bunch of one ton buckets and those tracked rear lot bucket and derrick machines....$125K will pay for a broken leg...or 1 of those machines.

Yessir! Only climbed a couple with the Jelco, just to try it out, since i am retired, but prefer it to the FSqueeze..but you make a valid point!!

never_forget_our_brothers
06-04-2010, 06:53 PM
JELCO has the best feeling climbing belts I've ever put on. They are making some great stuff!:cool: