Padmount changeouts

[rcdallas]

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[Meat]

I'm so confused. Why I.T.F. would you ground the secondaries if you're going to lift the padmount off. Bad safety man. Meat!

[LEAFMAN]

We unbolt the services from the bus bar after we test for potential on the secondaries. Having grounds on them is more of a hinderance then a help. We also have class 0 gloves for secondary work that we wear.

[Edge]

Recently our safety folks have been hitting hard on us making it real fun!

We've been changing out a ton of padmounts lately, and during a recent observation they we're saying we need to ground the secondary bus bars when changing out a pad mount.

Typically what we've done in the past was open up the loop on both sides and use parking stand grounds and then removed the secondary bus bars and then took off the case ground and swapped them out... I understand there is a chance for backfeed no matter which way you look at it.

They are saying pulling the meters and getting a visual isolation is not enough, they want it grounded, so we said we'd get some #2 cu and short circuit/ground the bus bars, safety guy say's that's not a proper ground, so he made us get a set of OH #2 duck bill grounds and put that on the bus bars, only to find now we have no room to do anything.

So what are ya'll doing? Is there some kind of a ground set out there made specific for grounding the secondary on pad mounts? Also does someone make something specific for grounding any of the secondary on large pad mounts like 500kva with the spade/paddle terminals?

Only other way I can think of is to just work out of rubber gloves, be nice if we had some Class 0 but we don't... has to be something out there...

when you say loop... not sure what your talking about... if it's a loop feeder then you have an open open point where you can hot tie... hot tie it... move your elbows to a two point junction or Feed through.... undo everything and and swap your pots... re bolt...replug return your open point should take 15-20 mins in gloves and now one except for the consumer/s that are on the pot your working are out... as for grounding... the safety man's gotta a point... to a point... if it aint ground it glove it...

I usually treat underground like I do a regulator unless I have 2 points of ID that confirm the wires go where they are supposed to... I treat it hot... but thats just me I like my fingers and what not...

for what its worth...

Edge

[MI-Lineman]

We don't ground our secondaries on the p.m. we're working on. After isolating the trnsfrmr and grounding the primary we're supposed to pull the meters or isolate at a secondary vault. But our co. changes rules like I change my shorts(or maybe a little more?). As for not being sure where the srvcs actually go, do they send out a srvc worker(or what ever you call it) to every no-light in your work area or do they take your word its related to your outage?:rolleyes:I doubt it! Sounds like you have the same ignorant safety personnel we do!

Never heard or seen secondary grounds for bus bars but I know for your question about paddles, we use live front grounds backwards on the paddle for top feed live fronts that don't have the solid blade cradle to set it in. Maybe they would fit on the sec. paddles but if they're like ours they would be sideways and you would have to use your hands to apply them?:( If you have used a live front ground before then you close it first(instead of opening it to drop in cradle) and then open it and pinch the paddle behind the tab that tightens it down(I think? Now I'm getting confused? Need to look at one again!). They're BASSACKWARDS if you haven't used them and your SO-CALLED safety people probably wouldn't like the idea. It's just what we do.

Work safe!:D

[1245hand]

We follow the same grounding and isolation procedures as you, except we have "secondary shunts" that can be installed on the secondary busbars or spades. Applied w/rubber gloves.

They look like 4' jumper cables made of 2 str cu w/large alligator style clips on 4 seperate leads connected together. One lead attaches to neutral. They are co. approved and issued. Can also be used on OH transformer lugs to prevent backfeed.

We're not required to ground 600 volt or below, these are only for backfeed.

Certain situations these are required, but can always be added when needed.

1245 hand

[Meat]

Ok let me get this straight. You are grounding secondaries under 600 volts? A urd deadfront transformer obviously can be capped on the primary side so the backfeed danger is not there to me. To change it out you are isolating them 1st anyway. On an overhead transformer I would also always isolate the secondary side if I'm going to be on the high side. I wouldn't trust jumper cables myself. Meat.

[lewy]

Isolate & ground your cables at the open point or points if it is on a loop.Test your primary & secondary at the transformer to be changed remove secondary from transformer & primary , change transformer ,install primary & secondary, remove grounds on the primary & switch back to normal, seems straight forward unless I am missing something

[MI-Lineman]

Isolate & ground your cables at the open point or points if it is on a loop.Test your primary & secondary at the transformer to be changed remove secondary from transformer & primary , change transformer ,install primary & secondary, remove grounds on the primary & switch back to normal, seems straight forward unless I am missing something

O.K. Then 15 minutes later after you start raising the trnsfmr, someones standby gen. fires up and your secondaries are burping at you? Don't you guys remove the meters to protect from back feed at least?:confused:

[Meat]

Ditto Lewy. Pulling 8 or 10 meters to protect against 120/240 backfeed? If I heard a generator I might investigate but whoa am I that out of touch? Chances are better I'll screw up a jaw or bust the meter( I always hate slamming those things in) This is a new one for me guys so bear with me. Is there one accident in the history of the world where a lineman got hurt handling disconnected low voltage secondaries? My leather gloves are always my last line of defense so I keep them in good shape and I feel pretty safe the way we do it. Meat.

[MI-Lineman]

Ditto Lewy. Pulling 8 or 10 meters to protect against 120/240 backfeed? If I heard a generator I might investigate but whoa am I that out of touch? Chances are better I'll screw up a jaw or bust the meter( I always hate slamming those things in) This is a new one for me guys so bear with me. Is there one accident in the history of the world where a lineman got hurt handling disconnected low voltage secondaries? My leather gloves are always my last line of defense so I keep them in good shape and I feel pretty safe the way we do it. Meat.

It's not only bout getting hurt(which yes, does happen) but keeping your job. I understand the hassle but I'm not a contractor(maybe by heart) anymore and now work for a power co. and they'll use any excuse to fry you if the secondaries don't do it first! You may keep your leathers in good condition but does everyone else?:rolleyes: You think by the time it registers in your mind a gen. started up( if you hear it) you'll have enough time to react? Who knows? I wouldn't gamble.:)

Someone in another thread (I think the GPS one) stated you should follow the safety rules, they'll hate you for it, probably cause they won't be able to find any violations on you.

Work Safe Brothers!!!!!!

[Ski_Digger]

Will they let you ground it in the meter socket?
Don't really understand how you will get backfeed with the meter out. But I have seen on new construction when terminating a tub, a builder hooked a gen. in the socket with jumber cables to feed the basement. That guy got a good ear full from me.
Like you said if you need it grouded better ground it.
Myself, gloves are on when urd is the case.
Work safe.
9/11 today "son turned 8 good reason to be safe and go home"
Ski:)

[rcdallas]

We follow the same grounding and isolation procedures as you, except we have "secondary shunts" that can be installed on the secondary busbars or spades. Applied w/rubber gloves.

They look like 4' jumper cables made of 2 str cu w/large alligator style clips on 4 seperate leads connected together. One lead attaches to neutral. They are co. approved and issued. Can also be used on OH transformer lugs to prevent backfeed.

We're not required to ground 600 volt or below, these are only for backfeed.

Certain situations these are required, but can always be added when needed.

1245 hand

It makes me wonder if in our safety handbook if it's even a requirement to ground 600 and below... I know the safety guy has never done linework in his life... as the story goes :rolleyes:

I'd be interested in knowing who makes this ground set your talking about and if possible a picture of them.

[LINCRW]

If you have the primary side isolated, you might as well ground it. If your company does not accept isolation on the secondary side, then ground the secondary bars before you take them off the transformer. Leave them grounded.

If it takes you a little longer, so what?!? They're paying you to do it that way right?

[rcdallas]

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[T-Man]

Usually there is only 2 Pedistals (Maybe 4) on the secondary mains leaving a pad unless it's direct wired to the customer from the pad( Then You can open the mains or meter). If I was concerned about backfeed I would disconnect at those peds and leave the meters alone. I haven't seen any jumpers that would work well as already stated to ground the secondary and I would wear my Rubber gloves while I did this work. I personally know a fella who "bought the farm" on secondary, it was overhead but I don't think the electric cares. . .Work safe.

[LINCRW]

For secondary applications only, we have a vise grip style grounding set. It looks like a vise grip set of pliers with 1/0 cu. leads. I'll try to get the manufacturer's name for you.

You could take the product to your company and see if they would accept it.

[1245hand]

Here's a picture of the secondary shunts we use. Not Grounds. Co.'s rules- Co.'s tools. Just another option. We too have new rules daily it seems.
2189

[Meat]

Here's a picture of the secondary shunts we use. Not Grounds. Co.'s rules- Co.'s tools. Just another option. We too have new rules daily it seems.
2189 I may have to eat crow on this practice. Seems I may be behind the times. I always thought I went above and beyond with regards to safety but thought the chances of secondary backfeed was extremely remote.(Only takes once right?) Whats next rubber gloves and sleeves to work primary thats dead and grounded? Accidental energization or a car pole down the street is a possibilty. Anyway good discussion as I'm always looking to improve my game. Meat!

[Ski_Digger]

We can not ground, the lugs in "standard, or most" tubs are in insulated blocks, we would have to pull them all apart to ground.
Ski

[wudwlkr]

Salisbury, at least I think it's them, makes a set of grounds specifically designed for use on the secondary lugs or bus bars of padmounts. They are equipped with modified vice-grip pliers for the clamps on the ends so they can be adjusted to fit a range of lug sizes. They can be easily applied to the tops or fronts of the lugs, grip tight and shouldn't blow off under fault conditions like the alligator clips will.

[climbsomemore]

FPL has had a standard for grounding secondary in Pad mounts for over 20 years. We used a 4 kv style mac head ... same grounds were used grounding OH secondary... but they were always in the way



We could opt out when changing Pad mounts.... pull the buss bars off the transformer studs and rubber the bars up. We had some 600 volt rubber with velcro sewed on (Salsbury sells it) and that worked as good as anything else we tried