How many linemen dabble as a narrowback?

[LostArt]

So, how many of you actually do both? Have any of you started as a narrowback to become a lineman?

[gator]

fu(k a narrow back

[LostArt]

fu(k a narrow back

Until you need your house wired. :D

[loodvig]

I have rewired my own house. When I bought it it had a 120v 30 amp service. Around here you need to have a license to do it. My buddy pulled the permits and I did the work. If there is a problem and your home owners insurance finds out a un-licensed person did the work they won't pay!

[Squizzy]

You got me LA Electrician,Lineman/splicer keeps me occupied, completed 2 full 4 year apprentiships though the lineman was closer 5 by the time they issued Trade Certificates. Glad I did it but I aint doing a third apprentiship.

BTW Fu(k you to Gator :D

[BigClive]

Yeah, fu(k gator. He probably wears a 34" waist overall and has to tie the straps together with string so they don't fall off his shoulders. :D

[Highplains Drifter]

I'd rather have my sister work in a whore house:eek: than my brother be a narrowback!!:D

[Pootnaigle]

I would be ashamed to call myself a lineman if I could not do ANYTHING a narrowback could do. I can and have wired a home beginning to end and then run the service to feed it. I have wired in several commercial applications like a car wash with several bays, a welding shop, and a convienance store or two. Not to mention trouble shooting problems in industrial , commercial, and residential applications.

[LostArt]

LOL!

I'm laughing because I'm thinking most of you would respond to this....in about the way my husband does. Maybe not to the extent as some of you... like Drifter or Poot, but like Loo said....you have to have some licensed guy with ya.

It's funny because I can remember (and I know this isn't the same thing....but still) when my husband (then boyfriend) would wire speakers in his truck. Then when we married, wired them in our house.

About the most I've ever done was an electrical switch and putting a new thermastat in.....and then I was walked through it on the phone. :D And then a few new fans.

However, it still strikes me as funny when we put some contraption together. What ends up as something simple always turns into something huge for some reason. :D

When I hear, "Dear, come help me with this....." I always think, "Oh boy. This should be good." I'm hardly ever disappointed. :D

[Edge]

I would be ashamed to call myself a lineman if I could not do ANYTHING a narrowback could do. I can and have wired a home beginning to end and then run the service to feed it. I have wired in several commercial applications like a car wash with several bays, a welding shop, and a convienance store or two. Not to mention trouble shooting problems in industrial , commercial, and residential applications.

what this man said...

Journeyman Lineman... if it's electric... I'm trained to do it...

Edge

[MI-Lineman]

Only for friends and family. Even still swing from trees once and a while.:D

[BillyMac]

Can someone bring me up to speed on where the term narrowback comes from?:)

[BigClive]

Hearsay has it that in the old days when they were looking for linemen they chose the broader shouldered guys who couldn't fit through trapdoors or shimmy under the floorboards of a house while wiring it. In reality it was probably coined as a derogatory term for installation electricians because they obviously aren't "hard" enough to do linework. :D

Ironically the correct term to apply to linemen these days should be broadbellies. :rolleyes:

[Edge]

Narrowbacks a fella in electrical work that aint got enuff ass to hold up a lineman's belt...

and as far as Clive's history lesson it's mostly right they picked little fella's to skinny around under houses and in the eves of roofs and shit to wire them up... narrowbacks...the big fella's worked the line...Lineman...

for what it's worth...

Edge

[MI-Lineman]

No matter broad shoulders or broad bellies, you use to have to have THICK SKIN but that seems to be changing these days?:confused:

[bobbo]

My Ba a long time ago had to fight the narrowbacks for jurisdiction over substations. The contractor was from Pittsburgh and used our hall. And was suprised that 16 guys working around the clock for four days can build a substation to some titanium plant. New River built a ten pole feed to the plant. And we were non stop inside, falling asleep in a trailer. They had two shifts, but it didn't form that way we just worked til we fell over, and clock in when we woke up.

We used to have guys that signed out for inside outfits as lineman. If the owner liked him and the guy didn't want to get laid off, he went off book 4 in the inside.

Nowadays the inside wants work and there is no cooperation between inside and outside. It was different a long time ago.

[1st Class Husker]

I'm both, I am a journeyman electrician , then went back to school for lineman, Love the linework completely , being a so called narrow back helps alot in trouble shooting!!! Now our district is installing capacitors on irrigation banks, to bad 99 % of the guys dont know what capacitors even do!!! even funnier know how a 3 way switch works!!!

[MI-Lineman]

I'm both, I am a journeyman electrician , then went back to school for lineman, Love the linework completely , being a so called narrow back helps alot in trouble shooting!!! Now our district is installing capacitors on irrigation banks, to bad 99 % of the guys dont know what capacitors even do!!! even funnier know how a 3 way switch works!!!

Ya gotta good point there! Just hope they know to use a loadbuster on a fixed cap bank?:eek:

[tramp67]

Went from residential wiring to powerplant operator to industrial/commercial wiring. Then jumped headfirst into motor controls and automation. Finally got tired of never seeing daylight and got into the Outside apprenticeship. I enjoyed it all, but love being outdoors and the variety. Now I can't decide which I like better - transmission or distribution! But the Inside work definitely has been a huge benefit for me in linework, especially troubleshooting and understanding three phase systems. It helps me relate to the customers better too. I still learn new things all the time, but there's not much I can't figure out or do myself.:cool:

[BigClive]

Well you know what they say... Variety is the spice of life.

Besides, the more areas you have skills in, the more likely you are to be employed. I'm proud to say that I've never ever claimed a penny of income support. 25 years in the electrical industry and doing fine.

[Edge]

well said BC...

I've never been outa work more than a week due to lay off... the only time I've been outa work is due to surgery or vacation... and it might me off topic but I just gotta agree with ya... NJAT gave me the training to do anything in line work... phone cable fiber secondaries primary substations switch-yards generation and transmission... yeah I like my power and I prefer the big sky to stompin the short stick... but I've had to do shit I don't like because I prefer to earn my life rather than have it given to me by the government tit...
hell I remember in the late 70's early eighty's when work was tight when I even 3rd booked as a steel catcher for the rod heads... I laughed at them up 20 stories up dicking steel in Jersey... and they thought I was crazy... told them hangin red Iron was a joke... they were like WTF man you ain't NEVER climbed a tower this high ... and I just grinned and said hey but walking across this Ibeam is like a fuggin side walk compared to 2 inch lattice!

ahhh the good old days...

and yeah I've dabbled as a narrow back but only where it was in my rights... fiber junctions on a tower... 600 VAC and above 600 VAC and below at the point of termination... and ALL primary URD

we need to get the fuggin narrowbacks OUT of OUR substations and switchyards! but thats another thread...

for what it's worth

Edge

[CPOPE]

Some of us are narrowbacks that work as linemen. Fact of the matter is, in Massachusetts, if you are going to do high voltage line construction on private property, You must, at a minimum be a licensed journeyman "electrician" Only Utilities are "exempt" to allow unlicensed electrical craft workers.

The National Electrical Code as amended by Mass General Law applies to private property construction and the only exception to doing high voltage line work falls under the following:
90.2 Scope.
(B) Not Covered.
(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric utility where such installations

a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated metering, or
b. Are located in legally established easements or rights-of-way designated by or recognized by public service commissions, utility commissions, or other regulatory agencies having jurisdiction for such installations, or
c. Are on property owned or leased by the electric utility for the purpose of communications, metering, generation, control, transformation, transmission, or distribution of electric energy.

That all said, In Massachusetts, and electrician, qualified by state licensing, can work as a lineman but a lineman who in not licensed can not work as an electrician, Honestly, I ain't trying to piss you all off. The Unions have a great apprenticeship program from what I've seen, Utilities by a majority, even better. non union line contractors have no formalized apprenticeship program that I've ever seen in my 30 years in the trade.

No Law in MA requiring licencing or apprenticeship for high voltage lineman. I believe we all agree there is a lack of or inconsistency with linemechanic apprenticeship programs. Here is what is requirement is in MA for electricians:

Work Experience Required for Class B (Journeyman Electrician) License
(1) An apprentice shall furnish documentary proof satisfactory to the Board of having completed electrical work experience totaling a minimum of 8000 clock hours over a period of no less than four years before making an application for examination.

(2) Such work experience, as an apprentice, shall have been under the direct supervision of a holder of a Massachusetts Class B (Journeyman) license in accordance with M.G.L. c. 141, § 8.

(3) Applicants may receive credit for electrical shop experience toward the 8000 hour apprenticeship experience requirement provided however, that such experience was obtained in a public vocational school program approved by the Department of Education under M.G.L. c. 74 or in a private occupational school program licensed by the Department of Education under M.G.L. c. 93 or in a college/university program approved by the Board.

(4) Applicants with work experience in systems work may apply 25% of that experience, up to a maximum of 2000 clock hours and one year, towards the experience requirement for the journeyman’s examination.

(5) Apprentices shall not be given credit for work experience completed six years prior to the successful completion date of their Board approved education.

Education Requirements for Class B (Journeyman Electrician) License
(1) An apprentice shall furnish documentary proof satisfactory to the Board of having successfully completed without substantial interruption 600 clock hours of classroom instruction as described in 237 CMR 22.01 based on the current or as the case may be a preceding Code before making an application for examination.

(2) An apprentice shall furnish documentary proof satisfactory to the Board of having obtained a high school diploma or the equivalent with their application if requested by the board.

Continuing Education
237 CMR 17.01 (3) Failure to complete Continuing Education Requirement. Any licensee who does not complete the required 21 clock hours of continuing education by the license renewal deadline shall complete one additional 21 clock hour course for each renewal cycle for which the licensee is delinquent. Each such course shall be provided by a different instructor. If a licensee fails to complete continuing education requirements for three consecutive renewal cycles, any subsequent renewal shall be subject to Board review and approval and licensee may elect to be re-examined.

(3) Applicants with education in systems may apply 25% of that education, up to a maximum of 150 clock hours, towards the education requirement for the journeyman’s examination.

(4) Applicants may receive credit for electrical related instruction toward the 600 clock hours of education provided however, that such instruction was obtained in a public vocational school program approved by the Department of Education under M.G.L. c. 74 or in a private occupational school program licensed by the Department of Education under M.G.L. c. 93 or in a college/university program approved by the Board.

(5) Applicants who have education, work experience and/or licenses in another state or jurisdiction (other than those with reciprocity with Massachusetts), may be eligible for a waiver of this education requirement if determined by the Board by 237 CMR 13.11, 13.12, and 13.13.

[Edge]

do your self a favor and read this

http://ibewminuteman.net/ibew_constitution/article-26.php

then get off your gd high horse...

hell while your at it read the whole thing!

I could give a flying **** about your state amended NEC... If I'm working in your state... I'm working IBEW and it over rides any damned thing your state says as far as I'm concerned...

I also thought it was kinda cute that you threw in the "any electrician can be a lineman but a lineman can only be an electrician with a license"... whoopity fuggin do bub... I got my master electrician license... I don't work as a fuggin narrow back and never will cuz I can't carry to tickets... besides my tools are worth more as a lineman...

I have nothing against Narrowbacks as long as they stick to 600 VAC and below.... where they fuggin belong....

ohhh and thats another thing Reaper...

600 VAC and below is low voltage...that is all your seconary drops and laterals communications and all the rest...the only exception might be some railroad stuff but they take care of that... I work the other side of the stick... above is high voltage till ya get to 69 kv then extra high voltage till 800kv and above then it's UHV... as Twain once said get your facts straight first then then distort them how ya please...

but you'll prolly blabber about your states law and how they amended the NATIONAL electrical code... well yeah go ahead kudos to you and them... guess they can change industry standard too... great to live in Mass I guess...

go sell your beat up bullshit on a different board... this...

this is powerLINEMAN.com

for what it's worth...

Edge

[CPOPE]

Edge man, I am not arguing with the IBEW constitution so chill out before you blow a gasket.

The National Electrical code does apply over 600volts I hope you agree. http://www.iaei.org/magazine/?p=3661 so they 'narowbacks" are treading on your turf and I ain't saying it is right.

I am stating a fact that in order to pull an electrical permit in the state of Massachusetts you must at a minimum be a license Journeyman and they only have a Journeyman electrician licence. Regardless of voltage {low-medium-high} you need a licence Journeyman or Masters and the IBEW ticket does not rule because there are other unions involved. http://uwua369.org/ and before you go off half cocked I also agree the IBEW rules. So your opinion "IBEW rides over any damned thing" can be arguied by a uwua powerineman.com lurker not me,

I ain't selling any shit, I'm here to learn and share, Massachusetts is about as screwed up as California I was just putting it out there that in order to do private property work at any voltage you need an electricians licence of at least need to be familiar with the NEC because it does apply over 600V.

You want to talk off line PM me

[MI-Lineman]

Edge man, I am not arguing with the IBEW constitution so chill out before you blow a gasket.

The National Electrical code does apply over 600volts I hope you agree. http://www.iaei.org/magazine/?p=3661 so they 'narowbacks" are treading on your turf and I ain't saying it is right.

I am stating a fact that in order to pull an electrical permit in the state of Massachusetts you must at a minimum be a license Journeyman and they only have a Journeyman electrician licence. Regardless of voltage {low-medium-high} you need a licence Journeyman or Masters and the IBEW ticket does not rule because there are other unions involved. http://uwua369.org/ and before you go off half cocked I also agree the IBEW rules. So your opinion "IBEW rides over any damned thing" can be arguied by a uwua powerineman.com lurker not me,

I ain't selling any shit, I'm here to learn and share, Massachusetts is about as screwed up as California I was just putting it out there that in order to do private property work at any voltage you need an electricians licence of at least need to be familiar with the NEC because it does apply over 600V.

You want to talk off line PM me

So...Do you need an electrician license or not? You contradicted yourself there?:confused: The only reason I ask is here in MI a home owner can do the work to his own address. It still needs to be inspected and follow all codes!

By the way! I've been a member of the UWUA for over 8 yrs now and a member of the IBEW before that for about 5 or 6yrs as a contractor. I don't think it matters witch union you belong to as an actual company employee (as far as training goes) because all of the training is funded by the COMPANY! So we have at our disposal some great materials and opportunities for training BUT poor on the job training! That's the difference!! As a contractor our hall did not have the funding for "training centers" and high tech training equipment but I believe our "on the job" training" was superior!

As far as "REPRESENTATION" goes? Well that's just an opinion but I think it's pretty clear RIGHT EDGE!!!:D

[MI-Lineman]

How the hell do you keep up on all the changing codes? I know there's "THE BOOK" but aren't some of the codes changed in the middle of a year? Do they publish a book with the recent changes? I do a little work for myself and friends but I would do more if I could keep up on the damn codes!

[thrasher]

Edge:
I am not trying to start a fight, but the law and whats right only rarely intersect. In Virginia if you have a Journeyman Linemans card from a program approved by the Virginia State Board of Labor, then you automatically qualify to apply for and to be issued a Journeyman Electrician's License. After 4 years experience you can test for a Master Electricians License. By Virginia law a Journeyman electrician can only work under the supervision of a Master Electrician. At my Cooperative all our Journeymen qualify as electricians and we have 4 Master Electricians working here. I have never wired a house in my life (other than a few repairs here and there) but I qualified as a Master because I did Scada and Relay Control wiring in Substations for 5 years, I did design, wiring and troubleshooting of station systems. So I met the hands on requirement and then passed the four hour book test.
Does this mean that I think electricians should be in substations,NO. Does this mean I think lineman should be wiring residential services, NO. However some large industrial plants and/or large emergency generators have wiring, tool requirements, and work procedures more like a utility then a home electrician. In those circumstances a lineman has a place past the meter. Our Cooperative provides that type of service via a subsidary company. This is just another way to generate work to keep from laying off anyone.

[Edge]

yeah Thrasher... not do damned different from how I got my masters... but mine was from wiring cell towers and fibers and what not on steel structures...did a pile of wiring in stations too ccvts and breakers and such but never in the control house... and yeah I agree there is overlap... I just feel like we lineman give away way to many things to the narrowbacks...

prolly why I took offense to your post Reaper...

and I gotta tell ya Reaper I actually agree with what your sayin...

we're looking at the same coin from 2 different sides I reckon...

sorry to just pop in after being away from the site for a few weeks and just start firing away...

Happy thanksgiving fellas!

Bill

[neil macgregor]

wit te feck is a narrow back

[BigClive]

wit te feck is a narrow back

It's a derogatory term used by the big tuff American linemen to describe "mere" electricians. The theory is that in the early days of electrical work the bigger broad shouldered guys were chosen for linework because they were too big to fit through trapdoors or under floors for house wiring.

Where have you been anyway. Not seen you around here in a while.