automatic reclosers

[paddyc]

could anyone please advise as to what is best practice when rubber gloving with regards to whether reclosers should be on /off this question keeps arising in our company and i would greatly appreciate any advice on this issue that would make our job safer.

[Pootnaigle]

If you are working behind a recloser thats spozeda be open You need to see a physical opening at the reclosure( IE open line or load side disconnects and an open bypass switch) If you cannot see an opening you must work everything as hot, wearing gloves and using pickup and loadbreak jumpers just as you would if the line was hot. Otherwise yer setting yerself and others up for a trajedy. iF IT AINT GROUNDED IT AINT DEAD.

[wudwoker51]

Personally I prefer a non-reclosing clearance anytime hot work is involved, especially though if the work involves moving conductor or stringing wire.

[Koga]

if you are doin work that requires a one shot. Non reclosing or what ever the term is you use . If your movin primary and or jumpers hot then you should insist it be on one shot. Addind a phase or pullin wire in close to hot primary you need one. Gloves aint gonna stop a flash and some one gettin burned if something was to get loose. I dont trust workin behind some fuses and will get a one shot in some cases. Here its up to the crew if I want it they will issue one.

Koga

[lewy]

Any time you are working live you should have a holdoff , they only cost you a little bit of time. Anytime we want a hold off we get it no questions asked.

[Lineman North Florida]

We always get the reclosures off when working on a feeder, some of our feeders have 3 phase field reclosures at the midpoint when working beyond the midpoint we put those in one-shot or non-reclose, when working behind fuses it is personal preference, most company's will tell you they are there to protect the equipment and not personell, but I don't know any lineman in his right mind that if they got in a jam and had a fire would take 3 blast's over 1, seen it pay off several times over the years to have them in 1 shot.

[knotskeart]

on northeast utilities property we have many auto-reclosures and tons of loop schemes making it a difficult and dangerous system to work on. we do all our construction work hot, and for the last 10-12 years rubber gloving up to 25 kv (before that we hot sticked everything). back when we were hot sticking we used to get line on one shot anytime we were working on 3 phase circuit, no problem. now it seems because of loop schemes and number of reclosures involved (time it takes to do switching) it takes an act of god to get reclosing on the circuits we work. company safety manual only deems it necessary when running or dropping out wire or when lineman feels it necessary to do work safely. that leaves way too much room for interpretation and causes endless battle between the guys doing the work and the guys pushing to get the job done quickly. the company's position is reclosing is only for the protection of the equipment. i say BULLSHIT! the quick trip settings of having a line on one shot can definately save a mans life. work was much safer when we got our reclosing and had the added room allowed by hot sticking these high voltage distribution systems. given the choice i would always have 3 phase line on one shot before i went to work.

[lewy]

We also work on a loop system & I feel they are safer than a radial system. We always know where the open point is & what feeder we are on. Sometimes scada can give us the hold off remotely & sometimes we have to go to the reclosure, but either way when we work hot we have a holdoff.

[Fiberglass Cowboy]

We are now installing "Smart grid" Intellirupters as tie points between different circuits or normal opens in the same circuit that can be tied (looped) together, instead of old 600 amp or 900 amp solid blade disconnect ( a.k.a. "NLB" or "Hook" switches) . However these can also be put in non reclose just like a 3 phase recloser. After watching the video and reading all about them and taking our class on them (which we all had to do); the test results showed much less fault-amp fires (phase-to-ground or phase-to-phase faults) initially on the Intellirupters, than on any standard recloser. Pretty impressive stuff. Plus, with the "Smart grid" technology they can be operated and programed to automatically throw-over to get other side re-energized right away, if no faults are detected. Anyways we are always putting the recloser or reclosers in non reclose when working downstream from them and if working too close to load side of line recloser, (1-2 spans away) know the curve and possibly put Sub recloser on one-shot. Even putting 69kv and 161kv etc. on on-shot (non-reclose), not just relying on overcurrent relays when working in those vicinities where we feel they are needed. No kickback from company at all. Safety should always be No.#1
We have 3 phase and/or single phase reclosers. Line and Sub. Some say,"They don't like it because it will ("high-amp") the recloser and cause a bigger fire initially before locking out once, instead of 3 ("lower") less fault-amp shots" ...... But who cares. One bad fire right in front of you should be enough for anyone, right ??? :cool:

Take that for what it's worth .... :rolleyes:

[CPOPE]

Here is how it reads out of the National Electrical Safety Code. It kind of sucks because it just says when you disable the reclosing this is how you are supposed to tag it, The NESC doesn't spell out clearly when you are supposed to "put circut on one-shot" "enable hot line tag" or place device in non reclose.

442. Switching control procedures
E. Tagging electric supply circuits associated with work activities

1. Equipment or circuits that are to be treated as de-energized and grounded per Rule 444D shall have suitable tags attached to all points where such equipment or circuits can be energized.
2. When the automatic reclosing feature of a reclosing device is disabled during the course of work on energized equipment or circuits, a tag shall be placed at the reclosing device location.
EXCEPTION: If the automatic reclosing feature of a reclosing device is disabled by a Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition System (SCADA), the system shall provide for the following:
(a) At the SCADA operating point
(1) A signal is received by the SCADA operator confirming that the disabling operation has occurred at the reclosing device location, and
(2) A readily visible tag or electronic display is used to inform any potential SCADA operator that a disabling operation has been initiated, and
(3) The tag or electronic display is removed before action is taken to re-enable the automatic reclosing feature.
(b) At the reclosing device location
(1) The reclosing feature is disabled in such a manner as to prevent manual override of the normal control by any potential on-site operator, or
(2) A signal, flag, or other display is used in such a manner as to alert any potential on-site operator that the reclosing feature has been disabled.
3. The required tags shall be placed to clearly identify the equipment or circuits on which work is being performed.

F. Restoration of service after automatic trip

1. When circuits or equipment upon which tags have been placed open automatically, the circuits or equipment shall be left open until reclosing has been authorized.
2. When circuits open automatically, local operating rules shall determine in what manner and how many times they may be closed with safety.

That all said each company writes it into their work rules differently, Like I said it is subjective decision at the tailboard or breif makes the ultimate call on the hazzard risk assesment. If putting the device on one-shot mitigates a hazzard suggest it be done. Here is an example of how you might want to write it up:

Non-reclosing and Live-Line Maintenance and Construction
(A) The appropriate interrupting devices (breakers, reclosers, circuit switches, etc.) will be placed on NON-RECLOSING and DNO tagged if any of the following apply:
1. When rubber gloving energized primary conductors or distribution feeders up to 35 kV which are protected by station and/or line reclosers and

! Conductors are unprotected by fuses,
! Judgment or past experience indicates whether non-reclosing is warranted,
2. When performing “hot stick” or “bare hand” work on any energized conductor including work performed from ground-based bucket trucks and lifts, helicopters and aerial baskets suspended from conductors, or
3. When climbing structures to do other work at or above the level of energized conductors which puts a worker within reaching or falling distance of energized conductors.
(B) Hot Line Tag feature shall be used in place of non-reclosing for worker protection where devices are equiped with HLT feature.
(C) Disabling of auto transfer, automatic circuit re-configuration is included in the general non-reclose requirement for worker protection.

Good Question, Good Luck

[T-Man]

CPOPE has good info here. In some of the other posts I get the feeling there may be some confusion between Lock out tag out ahd a Hot line Clearance.

Lock out tag out or a Hold off clearance where there are visible opens, maybe even grounds and no source of energy. (an Outage)

Hot Line clearance is a recloser on one shot but the line is still hot and you need to work under hot line conditions, Rubber Gloves, sleeves cover up.

A hot line de-energized is when we open the recloser (there is an outage)
but do not have visible opens and still work under hot line conditions Rubber PPE etc.

If you take a Hot Line clearance on our system you need to be sure the recloser closest to your work is tagged because if it's left untouched it may still go thru it's operations before the one tagged drops the line.

As stated earlier Hot Line clearance is more for keeping the equipment from banging thru high fault currents than your protection. Yes it's nice to know if you make a mistake it should lock out but if you have two aces in your hand and hope to draw another that would be nice to know there are two more in that deck also. . .Work safe understand your limits make good choices.

[lewy]

A hot line de-energized is when we open the recloser (there is an outage)
but do not have visible opens and still work under hot line conditions Rubber PPE etc.


In hot line de-energized do you have grounds on ? If so why rubber or are you working with the line isolated , but not grounded? We only have 2 choices we either work the line live or grounded.

[T-Man]

A hot line de-energized is when we open the recloser (there is an outage)
but do not have visible opens and still work under hot line conditions Rubber PPE etc.


In hot line de-energized do you have grounds on ? If so why rubber or are you working with the line isolated , but not grounded? We only have 2 choices we either work the line live or grounded.

If you go to grounds you should have a Hold off cleaerance. This Hot line de-energized clearance avoids no grounds,and all the visible opens and you work it as if it was hot in your rubber gloves etc. You can make a quick repair on de-energized conductor with out all the clearance points. . .backfeed is not off either so you need the gloves.

[lewy]

I understand that you are permitted to work a line isolated as long as you treat it as alive. Do you really treat it the same as if it were really alive (same coverup clearances 1 phase at a time) I know we used to be able to work isolated lines treated as alive, but just about everyone cheated & because of that they changed the rules up here, the line is either hot or grounded.

[thrasher]

I thought the question was if you are working downline of a recloser do you routinely put it on one-shot (non-reclosing). In answer to that; YES if you are doing primary work downline of a recloser that has a one-shot (non-reclosing) feature then use it and tag with the appropriate company tag. We use a yellow and black striped ABNORMAL Tag. Only the Journeyman that hung the tag can give permission to close the recloser if it opens on one-shot.
If you are talking about working a line dead then you need a VISIBLE opening as isolation, test it's dead and ground. (Our company requires the ground or grounds be in sight of the journeyman working the line as dead.) Hang a RED Tag on the visible opening. Only the person Hanging the RED Tag should remove the tag, or at least give permission to remove the tag. This is the only way to be in agreement with both NESC and OSHA that I know of.

[lewy]

I thought the question was if you are working downline of a recloser do you routinely put it on one-shot (non-reclosing). In answer to that; YES if you are doing primary work downline of a recloser that has a one-shot (non-reclosing) feature then use it and tag with the appropriate company tag. We use a yellow and black striped ABNORMAL Tag. Only the Journeyman that hung the tag can give permission to close the recloser if it opens on one-shot.
If you are talking about working a line dead then you need a VISIBLE opening as isolation, test it's dead and ground. (Our company requires the ground or grounds be in sight of the journeyman working the line as dead.) Hang a RED Tag on the visible opening. Only the person Hanging the RED Tag should remove the tag, or at least give permission to remove the tag. This is the only way to be in agreement with both NESC and OSHA that I know of.

You are correct this thread like most has evolved. I tryed to avoid work protection code because there are a lot of differrent codes out there , but yes either on single shot or isolation you should follow your work protection code & use the proper tags

[Edge]

could anyone please advise as to what is best practice when rubber gloving with regards to whether reclosers should be on /off this question keeps arising in our company and i would greatly appreciate any advice on this issue that would make our job safer.

put the sob in one shot or bypass it with a fuggin fuse bub....

sorta like Eric said one big ball of fire is prolly better than 3-4 (depending on how your set up) cuz your trying to get your shit togeather after you cracked the tie on a phase and the top of the insulater decided that that was the time of day to shit the bed....

Eric, I've read some shit on what you posted sound simialr to some of the sectionalizers we're using/going to if ya get a chance can ya pm me a link or hell maybe just post it here for all the cats to check out... thanks in advance brother....

for what it's worth...

Edge

[THE KID]

We are fortunate enuogh too have SCADA. Open & closing cutouts or any time you touch the line we always have reclosure OFF. Even if its just putting a gut on the line or pushing a stinger up.

[Stinger]

I prefer to have the Recloser on the DNR/ one shot whatever other term you use on matter what the job is. A lot of systems will say if you are behind 65 or less fuses, you do not need DNR. I don't like it. How many of guys seen live wire laying on the ground and the fuse still not blown. I have, numerous times. I will get DNR every chance i get, I feel safer and it is safer for my crew.

[wtdoor67]

fuse to protect you upstream from your work area is not kosher. Talk to your co. engineer or whoever calculates your fusing scheme.

Many reclosers and sub breakers are set with usually 3 operations I believe. The first operation is usually called an instantanous, typically this will cause a blink but will reclose before the fuse blows. I think the next operations are timed and will be a little longer in duration. These will also cause blinks but eventually will hold long enough for the fuse to blow and clear the fault.

If your foreman or supervisor tells you a disabled recloser etc. is not necessary because you're working behind a fuse then he is wrong if your safety rules call for a disabled Kyle etc.

I've had this argument before.

I thought for a long time that one shot was mandatory according to OSHA. Although most co's make it mandatory it really isn't. At least the last time I read the regulation.

It is an OSHA suggestion however, the wording says "should" and not "shall".

A matter of semantics perhaps dear Watson?

[Edge]

fuse to protect you upstream from your work area is not kosher. Talk to your co. engineer or whoever calculates your fusing scheme.

Many reclosers and sub breakers are set with usually 3 operations I believe. The first operation is usually called an instantanous, typically this will cause a blink but will reclose before the fuse blows. I think the next operations are timed and will be a little longer in duration. These will also cause blinks but eventually will hold long enough for the fuse to blow and clear the fault.

If your foreman or supervisor tells you a disabled recloser etc. is not necessary because you're working behind a fuse then he is wrong if your safety rules call for a disabled Kyle etc.

I've had this argument before.

I thought for a long time that one shot was mandatory according to OSHA. Although most co's make it mandatory it really isn't. At least the last time I read the regulation.

It is an OSHA suggestion however, the wording says "should" and not "shall".

A matter of semantics perhaps dear Watson?


yeah door I agree with ya for the most part and perhaps I should have been a bit more clear the instance I was speaking of a fuse was more along the lines of workin a long lateral that is usually controlled by an ocr that ain't got a one shot option.... there are still plenty of them out there...

in that case most of the "oneshot" or "bypass" fuses are lower than the ocr allowing the fuse to clear before the main line would blink...

all that said it does very much depend on the fusing/relay schemes of the company and how curves are set up at the ocrs...

for what its worth...

Edge

[Fiberglass Cowboy]

Forgot to get that info, but will let you know more when I find my paperwork. Think it's in my work mailbox. We got "simplified" specs and instructions on them (smart-grid intellirupters) from training department. Already forgot who makes them. Agree with you on work practices. Also our side of the company was always good on fusing coordination to "idealy" ensure fuse would blow before recloser operated. Reclosers were not sized too close to large main line fuses. Meaning we wouldn't have a 140k or a 102k fuse right behind (downstream) a small 140 amp 2a-2b line recloser. Too close for something like that to coordinate correctly. However we would have 65k fuses downstream from 140 amp reclosers. You still owe me a beer from once upon a time. Guess i'll drink it, .... well right now. I'll be back out your way in mid March for more training (Army). Up at Fort Belvoir around the Woodbridge - Alexandria area. I work with an older lineman from that area that lived and worked their for Dominion when they were Virginia Power (or whatever the name was) for many years. He's good $hit. Great lineman. Very thorough, very knowledgeable. Last time I was there in January, found out the base (Belvoir) sold their distribution to Dominion & had contractors upgrading everything to Dominion standards. Your 2 favorites, C.W. Wright & Pike Electric both had their own yards set up there, on the base; & were doing all the work. Seems like Virginia has a rodent problem !!! Later El Capiytan :cool:
Set your cane down now, and have a drink on me. ;)

[HIVOLTS]

We bypass the recloser, (all ours have bypass/disconnect switches) and have the operator apply a Hot Line Tag on the feeder breaker at the sub remotely, which changes the trip settings to be much more sensitve to an instantaneous fault. Much better protection for the workers.