Worker injured after fall from pole at Carver NStar facility

[CPOPE]

The Patriot Ledger
Sep 29, 2010 @ 07:19 PM

CARVER —

Fire officials said an NStar worker was taken by medical helicopter to the hospital after falling from a pole at the company’s Carver training facility.

The worker was conscious and alert when he was taken to the hospital, according to the Carver Fire Department.

The incident occurred around 1:30 p.m.

An NStar spokesperson said she could not immediately access information on the incident.

From what I have heard he is going to be OK, Leg broken. Lucky Guy, They were training for a rodeo. I believe NSTAR is one of the last free climbing IOU's in Massachusetts. We'll see how long that lasts.....

[Trbl639]

Hope he comes out ok!

A fall by an apprentice at the Entergy Boot Camp, where a new ape was free climbing and not on the 'yo-yo', was the straw that broke the camels back and the resulting decision force them to go the the f-squeeze!!

[old lineman]

So I see that people are still falling.
I thought by the way most everyone was against a fall restricting system no one was getting hurt this way.
Seems to me there still is an unecessary exposure to the risk of falling being taken.
Hey, I never said a fall restricting system wasn't a pain in the butt. But when the mission is to eliminate accidents these accidents glare into your face, if your a safety guru.
I'm sorry these guys got hurt. Hope all turns out OK for them.
By the way does anybody know what these types of accidents cost the system. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Kind of makes elimination look reasonably priced doesn't it?
The Old Lineman

[Highplains Drifter]

So I see that people are still falling.
I thought by the way most everyone was against a fall restricting system no one was getting hurt this way.
Seems to me there still is an unecessary exposure to the risk of falling being taken.
Hey, I never said a fall restricting system wasn't a pain in the butt. But when the mission is to eliminate accidents these accidents glare into your face, if your a safety guru.
I'm sorry these guys got hurt. Hope all turns out OK for them.
By the way does anybody know what these types of accidents cost the system. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Kind of makes elimination look reasonably priced doesn't it?
The Old Lineman

You sound like a Company Hand worried about the cost.....never once in your post did you ask or inquire how bad the man was injured.

[old lineman]

You sound like a Company Hand worried about the cost.....never once in your post did you ask or inquire how bad the man was injured.

I read that on the post. Any injury is serious and too much.
I'm not just thinking of the cost but, the bean counters know the cost of an injury when weighed against safety equipment it's a no brainer.
Get the GD safety eqipment.
Dollars don't take into account the pain and suffering. Sometimes it's career ending, sometimes it's life ending.
This is not a necessary type of accident. It can be eliminated.
The Old Lineman

[climbsomemore]

Give it ten years longer... after a few men fall after the Jelcos and Buck squeezes fail in service, from miss-use and whatever else may happen --what we gonna' do then?

Falling when climbing injuries are on the back side of the historical bell curve.

Few people work hours climbing... ability and performance lags and a Fall and injury event stands right on the statistical basis.

40 years ago people fell when climbing --- but enough folks climbed to produce some "acceptable risks" whe thing were calculated.

The law of averages says you will get hurt hand digging a hole more often than you will fall while climbing... tripping over extention cords, falling out of the back of your truck and stupid stuff like that will disable more lineman that pole climbing accidents will in a given year.

I am all for sound safey programs and pro active ways to make me safer... but this whole fall restraint thing is a excercise in marketing.

If your a company with a history of falls and injury claims it's probably cheaper to buy a back lot crawler with a bucket on it than it would be to obtain and train your crews in a dedicated fall equipment program.

[doug85]

It wasn't long ago that I was an ape scared as hell of about everything I did. I got over it and thou it by learning an understanding. I'm no longer scared of my job because I have accepted the risk and love what I do. I wouldn't change this job. Falling is a risk, contact is a risk.. Driving a darn car is a risk. The job has certain risks and that is where the line is at for most. The only fear I have now is that some night I will call for help and get some tool that made it because of some < safety equipment> and that dipsh-- will not have accepted the risks or responsibility of the job.. Fear of something is a personal gauge of how far you will push yourself to either confront it or run. Getting to easy for run of the mill sh-theads to make it in the program. I once dislike a foreman because of how much he climbed me, later I realized what he really had done for me, great guy. Don't dress down the job teach it the right way. Let the washouts out before they get to far into the trade, we always need gas guys. Sorry gassies. Boycott the bucksqeeze it is going to tant the trade.

[CPOPE]

I read that on the post. Any injury is serious and too much.
I'm not just thinking of the cost but, the bean counters know the cost of an injury when weighed against safety equipment it's a no brainer.
Get the GD safety eqipment.
Dollars don't take into account the pain and suffering. Sometimes it's career ending, sometimes it's life ending.
This is not a necessary type of accident. It can be eliminated.
The Old Lineman

I think I agree with "Get the GD safety equipment" We agree it should be "made available" but to mandate it's use across the board 100% fall protection is an impossible rule to guarantee adherence to,.....

It's the Company's responsibility to provide the minimum requirement and right now as far as 1910.269 goes free climbing is still permitted to my knowledge. We argue about the added safeguard requirement of 100% fall protection and then want an AED on each crew. Get the equipment but requiring that is is provided to the front line worker if they choose to use it is another matter.

I do respectfully disagree with your statement "This is not a necessary type of accident. It can be eliminated." Slip trips and falls happen at grate level and on top of a 90footer........Accidents happen you are bold and unrealistic to have zero tolerance.....Zero Accidents Every Day is a goal that is unacceptable...They are going to happen and it is the cost of doing business. The Company if it has a hart does not leave it's wounded on the side of the road... There was a day when a typical IOU investor owned utility would retrogress linemen into less strenuous classifications. Meter Work, Foreman, Field Engr.....I'm sorry to say those day's are slipping past us at larger utilities, Especially foreign owned conglomerates/.

Those of us who do climb freely accept it as part of the job. Free climbing will never be ruled out in the practical application of our trade. When re-positioning or getting around an control box or communication conductors etc.... There are times like transitioning from a copter to a structure where you must be able to go untethered. Riding a motorcycle on the high-wire is OK if you know the risks....

[old lineman]

I think I agree with "Get the GD safety equipment" We agree it should be "made available" but to mandate it's use across the board 100% fall protection is an impossible rule to guarantee adherence to,.....

It's the Company's responsibility to provide the minimum requirement and right now as far as 1910.269 goes free climbing is still permitted to my knowledge. We argue about the added safeguard requirement of 100% fall protection and then want an AED on each crew. Get the equipment but requiring that is is provided to the front line worker if they choose to use it is another matter.

I do respectfully disagree with your statement "This is not a necessary type of accident. It can be eliminated." Slip trips and falls happen at grate level and on top of a 90footer........Accidents happen you are bold and unrealistic to have zero tolerance.....Zero Accidents Every Day is a goal that is unacceptable...They are going to happen and it is the cost of doing business. The Company if it has a hart does not leave it's wounded on the side of the road... There was a day when a typical IOU investor owned utility would retrogress linemen into less strenuous classifications. Meter Work, Foreman, Field Engr.....I'm sorry to say those day's are slipping past us at larger utilities, Especially foreign owned conglomerates/.

Those of us who do climb freely accept it as part of the job. Free climbing will never be ruled out in the practical application of our trade. When re-positioning or getting around an control box or communication conductors etc.... There are times like transitioning from a copter to a structure where you must be able to go untethered. Riding a motorcycle on the high-wire is OK if you know the risks....

I'm not going to talk about fall protection. We've beat that horse beyond death.
I want to pick up on your words "minimum requirement'.
When you buy something do you look for it with just being able to cut it in mind or do you look for something that is better and will serve longer.
Minimum requirement totally ignors "best practices', thats what everyone should be aiming for.
Just barely meeting the bottom line isn't good enough.
Accidents happen is another statement to challenge.
Let's say your the CEO of a company and you were reviewing last years performance at the annual Christmas party for the staff.
Your obliged to give a pep talk.
Part of your speech talks about the safety performance. Five lost time accidents happened this year, we've got to do better.
I only want to see three lost time accidents next year.
Really, and who do you want them to be?
You see the taget is always zero.
As a manager accidents are unacceptable.
If one happens we'll investigate the hell out of it and hold someone responsible. If I didn't do my job as a CEO then tell me why. More training , more time, more equipment or whatever.
The buck stops with you!
The Old Lineman

[CPOPE]

So now we are playing let's pretend I'm a CEO, Well I'm not and don't want to be but if i were I would lead by example and fulfill my fiduciary responsibility to provide the PPE required for the craft worker to go above and beyond the minimum required threshold. I'll give your peptalk but I will also convey an understanding that zero tolerance for any accidents is a militant, draconian mandate. We all make mistakes and forgiveness is divine. I will not cast a stone or hold another to a threshold I could not meet myself.

The employee puts their trust in the employer to provide a safe work environment. It's something as a CEO one can not guarantee. Zero is a an impossible lofty goal in a trade such as ours. We likely agree than any accident is truly regrettable but I do not agree that all are preventable. It takes two to tango and the employee shares a responsibility toward safety best practice with the employer. The Company is entrusted to stand by the worker when accidents happen, not mandate rules impractical placing blame downstream.

The buck starts with the CEO does not stop till the employee capitulates to the mandate. I say lets collaborate and not mandate, Reach a shared best practice safety goal. Zero just ain't going to happen, there is an acceptable loss in the name of "act of God" accidents

fiduciary 1) n. from the Latin fiducia, meaning "trust," a person who has the power and obligation to act for another under circumstances which require total trust, good faith and honesty. Characteristically, the fiduciary has greater knowledge and expertise about the matters being handled. A fiduciary is held to a standard of conduct and trust above that of a stranger or of a casual business person. He/she/it must avoid "self-dealing" or "conflicts of interests" in which the potential benefit to the fiduciary is in conflict with what is best for the person who trusts him/her/it. A fiduciary and the beneficiary may join together in a business venture or a purchase of property, {safety best practices}the best interest of the beneficiary{employee} must be primary, and absolute candor is required of the fiduciary{employer}.

[Highplains Drifter]

It wasn't long ago that I was an ape scared as hell of about everything I did. I got over it and thou it by learning an understanding. I'm no longer scared of my job because I have accepted the risk and love what I do. I wouldn't change this job. Falling is a risk, contact is a risk.. Driving a darn car is a risk. The job has certain risks and that is where the line is at for most. The only fear I have now is that some night I will call for help and get some tool that made it because of some < safety equipment> and that dipsh-- will not have accepted the risks or responsibility of the job.. Fear of something is a personal gauge of how far you will push yourself to either confront it or run. Getting to easy for run of the mill sh-theads to make it in the program. I once dislike a foreman because of how much he climbed me, later I realized what he really had done for me, great guy. Don't dress down the job teach it the right way. Let the washouts out before they get to far into the trade, we always need gas guys. Sorry gassies. Boycott the bucksqeeze it is going to tant the trade.



What a great first post!!! I hope you will come back and share more with us and if you feel like it maybe introduce your self here. (http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?t=5106)

[Highplains Drifter]

Give it ten years longer... after a few men fall after the Jelcos and Buck squeezes fail in service, from miss-use and whatever else may happen --what we gonna' do then?

Falling when climbing injuries are on the back side of the historical bell curve.

Few people work hours climbing... ability and performance lags and a Fall and injury event stands right on the statistical basis.

40 years ago people fell when climbing --- but enough folks climbed to produce some "acceptable risks" whe thing were calculated.

The law of averages says you will get hurt hand digging a hole more often than you will fall while climbing... tripping over extention cords, falling out of the back of your truck and stupid stuff like that will disable more lineman that pole climbing accidents will in a given year.

I am all for sound safey programs and pro active ways to make me safer... but this whole fall restraint thing is a excercise in marketing.

If your a company with a history of falls and injury claims it's probably cheaper to buy a back lot crawler with a bucket on it than it would be to obtain and train your crews in a dedicated fall equipment program.


I enjoy reading your posts and I like what you said here.....http://www.irv2.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[Highplains Drifter]

As a manager accidents are unacceptable.
If one happens we'll investigate the hell out of it and hold someone responsible. If I didn't do my job as a CEO then tell me why. More training , more time, more equipment or whatever.
The buck stops with you!
The Old Lineman



Old lineman, you said the magic words right there, you have to justify your job and to keep it you are going to implement rules and rules to justify your job. At least I think you might have been in your tools but the new college grad safety boys are going to make rules and suck any dick that swings. I personally think a women safety director with OSHA came up with the full body harness.... "OK guys you are going to know what it is like to wear a bra and then I'll add a couple of nut huggers for you."



OK now we have a body harness pulling on you and then lets add FR clothing so you will be super warm while you are working...now gloves and sleeves and lets buy the cheep sleeves to save money so they are the black ones. Before all of this added safety requirements I felt comfortable in the zone rubber gloving. All your added safety junk is taking a man's concentration away from doing his job. Reach out and one of the straps on the body harness is binding you, turn around wrong and your like a dog wrapped around a pole. The synthetic rubber sleeves are making your arms tired from using them. You can create too many safety rules and they are going to cause accidents.



About three years ago we where building a high-line, company hired a new safety man and his second day he came unglued trying to justify his job and did't want us to step on the middle rail of the crane baskets. Now we all know that if you have to stay on the floor of a crane basket it is going to take for ever to dead end and make jumpers. We all put our feet down and our boss put this guy in place so the line could be built. I can not tell you how many hours I have been on the middle or top rail of a crane basket, cranking hoists and pressing bodies. The same thing is going to happen with this buck squeeze, when they want this new grid built they are going to listen to the lineman and not the safety man.

[topgroove]

I hear what your saying. We had an accident at grid in boston two weeks ago. it was in the same indoor substation that killed a man ten years ago. the switch person was wearing a full 55 cal suit with hood and face shield. Ten years ago I never heard or seen such a suit. The explosion and blast was enormous, the suit and face shield completly destroyed. both men are fine. Without that suit I gaurantee the switch person would've been dead. the switch person was held over night in the hospital as a precaution. I can't stand the bucksqueeze either, you may never cut-out in your career but every once in a while the best climber in the world will slip up. Most times you drop a couple feet and look down and hope to god no one saw. Every once in a while you read about a career ending injury or worse. It can happen to anyone. My Father-inlaw died one year ago from a fall off a 28 foot ladder. He spent two months in ICU a complete vegetable with involantary twitching . Let me tell you first hand.... there are very bad ways to die but when they pull the plug on you they basicly withold food and water. It aint pretty... you basicly shrivel up and dehydrate,your mouth and throat become sandpaper. after three days your kidneys shut down ( a blessing) by the forth day you can hear the gurgerling from the fluid in the lungs and your usually gone before the fifth day. All this time your loved ones are sitting by your bed watching.
Now I know this will probebly never happen to anyone of us, but hell if it takes me ten more minutes to climb to the top of a forty foot pole, and lets face it most backlot construction is only 40 footers, who cares. we're paid by the hour anyway. I have three beautifull girls to put through college and someday walk down the isle. I can't stand the bucksqueeze but I wear it for them!

[old lineman]

So now we are playing let's pretend I'm a CEO, Well I'm not and don't want to be but if i were I would lead by example and fulfill my fiduciary responsibility to provide the PPE required for the craft worker to go above and beyond the minimum required threshold. I'll give your peptalk but I will also convey an understanding that zero tolerance for any accidents is a militant, draconian mandate. We all make mistakes and forgiveness is divine. I will not cast a stone or hold another to a threshold I could not meet myself.

The employee puts their trust in the employer to provide a safe work environment. It's something as a CEO one can not guarantee. Zero is a an impossible lofty goal in a trade such as ours. We likely agree than any accident is truly regrettable but I do not agree that all are preventable. It takes two to tango and the employee shares a responsibility toward safety best practice with the employer. The Company is entrusted to stand by the worker when accidents happen, not mandate rules impractical placing blame downstream.

The buck starts with the CEO does not stop till the employee capitulates to the mandate. I say lets collaborate and not mandate, Reach a shared best practice safety goal. Zero just ain't going to happen, there is an acceptable loss in the name of "act of God" accidents

fiduciary 1) n. from the Latin fiducia, meaning "trust," a person who has the power and obligation to act for another under circumstances which require total trust, good faith and honesty. Characteristically, the fiduciary has greater knowledge and expertise about the matters being handled. A fiduciary is held to a standard of conduct and trust above that of a stranger or of a casual business person. He/she/it must avoid "self-dealing" or "conflicts of interests" in which the potential benefit to the fiduciary is in conflict with what is best for the person who trusts him/her/it. A fiduciary and the beneficiary may join together in a business venture or a purchase of property, {safety best practices}the best interest of the beneficiary{employee} must be primary, and absolute candor is required of the fiduciary{employer}.

Well said, but for everyone one that talks like that nine have other thoughts.
The share holders voices are stronger that the workers. Unfortunate but true.
I've dealt with both and it sure is frustrating when the bottom line comes before the worker.
Only stiff penalties mold this type into your ideal.
The Old Lineman

[CPOPE]

Before I respond to the old man let me say I'm in contact with some at the utility where this fall happened. I understand this guy is going to be OK with luck. It wasn't a compound fracture and setting the bone in his leg required pinning. Time will tell how long and how well recovery will be. He was training for rodeo competition. Lesson learned is that speed kills, do more than just listen for the click before you lean back into your strap.


Well said, but for everyone one that talks like that nine have other thoughts.
The share holders voices are stronger that the workers. Unfortunate but true.
I've dealt with both and it sure is frustrating when the bottom line comes before the worker.
Only stiff penalties mold this type into your ideal.
The Old Lineman

We are within a regulated industry, simplifying it down to the share holders voice being stronger that the workers neglects the balance of customer and regulatory oversight. If claiming the bottom line comes before the worker is trying to justifies how you operated, That's just sad. Sounds like something that might come out of the mouth of Ken Lay or Bernie Madoff. If Nine out of ten feel that way I will be the one to stand alone against it.

Your also off target with the statement "Only stiff penalties mold this type into your ideal." It is these penalties that justify dollar worshiping CEO's to mandate 100% fall protection when they full well should know 100% is a goal that cannot or is not practicable.

When a fall happens at a company that has a 100% mandate you may think the company is absolved of responsibility. In my eyes they are not. God's law is different to Man's law If you break man's law (commit a crime), you may go Jail If you break God's law (commit a sin) you may go to Hell.

Sorry for going off topic, this is a safety part of the forum that has drifted into politics. There is a line in the sand and your crossing it Old Lineman. Watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIPoPw9zgvQ&feature=player_embedded