poly insulators

[kooman]

guys our system is getting into using 15kv poly cross arm insulators on our 7200 and i am just curious how they are holding up for the systems that have had them for awhile. thanks

[lewy]

These are all we use, real easy to work with rubber glove or stick.

http://www.k-line.net/catalogue/1.2%20-%20Distribution%20Line%20Post%20Cat%20D-LP%20-%20October%202008.pdf

[kooman]

these are the ones
http://www.electricnet.com/product.mvc/Insulator-15kV-Poly-Pin-Type-Tie-Top-0001?VNETCOOKIE=NO

[lewy]

I prefer poly. With the style we use we do not need tie wire, the clamp will go down to #4 & as large as 556 probably larger. Much easier to tie in with sticks if you do not rubber glove.

[topgroove]

Damn I miss those insulators.... we had them for about a year but they were too expensive so Grid switched to the ones kooman linked. All the ones we installed have held up fine even after ten years.

[Trbl639]

We never built any new lines with them, but they were in the storeroom......we used them mainly in areas where the hunters liked to use the porcelain insulators for target practice:D

Supposedly they can take a hit or several from high powered rifles and not breakdown, although I have seen a few that had bullet holes in the skirts and where still good, not breaking down..........

I don't think that they even have any porcelain bells in the storerooms anymore........all poly now!

Am talking about the ones Kooman linked...not the K-line, never used them....

[neil macgregor]

the hydro board in scotland (now SSE) started using these on towers in 1982
most other boards in the UK soon followed suit .by the late 90's all boards
in the uk were using them on the smaller voltage stuff

[kooman]

thanks for the feedback guys, we have used poly dead end bells for many years and i like them alot but they are more of a rubber type and the new pin insulators are more of a hard plastic. i was just curious how they hold up to the nebraska winters when the 4/0 has 1/4" of ice and the wind picks up. im sure they are a very good product but you know how us "old bastards" are, we fear change. :D

[topgroove]

If they can survive a buffalo winter they can survive anything. The true test will be how they survive 20 years of UV light. 20 years seams like a long time but when your talking distribution hard wear its not long at all. We try and build for 100 years. Did they tell you for bare wire use bare tiewire and for covered PE use covered tiewire.

[kooman]

If they can survive a buffalo winter they can survive anything. The true test will be how they survive 20 years of UV light. 20 years seams like a long time but when your talking distribution hard wear its not long at all. We try and build for 100 years. Did they tell you for bare wire use bare tiewire and for covered PE use covered tiewire.

most of our line is built with rodded acsr and preformed ties, when we neet to tie in coated we use coated ties.

[lewy]

Interesting.
Whats the reason your utility decided on these Lewy? Especially up in "Cold Country".

Not real familiar with those type of insulators in Cold Country. Always thought porcelain type insulators would be better for "Cold". Have used alot of the Poly insulators, deadends though. Never used any of the Pole mount you showed. Haven't seen em used down here at all.

What made your company decide to use those? Did they run tests? These compared with porcelain insulators?

We have been using them since I started & have had no problems with them, I know 20 years is short compared to how long some glass has been in the air. We have no problems with them in the winter. We have been using the ones with the clamp installed for about 10 years & that is by far the best feature, no more tie wire. They are so much easier & more than twice as fast if you are using sticks compare to live line ties , all you need is an all angle cog & a 15/16 socket to clamp or unclamp & you can use less cover up because there is nothing to short out. I do not know the difference in cost , but they are lighter mechanically stronger & again so much easier to work with & we just have to carry 1 post style insulator no matter what type of framing.

[topgroove]

We have backlot poles in Buffalo that are 100 years old right now, an order isn't even written to replace them yet.

[topgroove]

when electricity first came to buffalo, Niagara power made a signed a contract with the city that no power poles would be located in the street. It didn't matter much cause there weren't any bucket trucks back then anyway. Road crossings are all done underground with upfeed downfeed cable riser poles. Over the years storms have taken care of most of poles but hundreds of these old poles remain. they useally are only 30 footers and you don't even need your hooks most of the time with all the drops and crap on em. when a major storm rolls through many times will just clear the riser pole and run temporary overhead to pick-up the customers. we have steel pole holders that take thousand pound concrete weights, set the cradle up and just stick a pole on it. Than we can take our time with riser poles. Remember the crossarm secondary construction we've got tons of it. The entire state of Florida is reletivly new construction compared to what we have.

[topgroove]

most poles do rot, but for some reason some poles(I don't know what the hell they were treated with) almost become petrified, I think they're chestnut or some really hard wood? they're so dried out and checked so bad there's no place left to set your hooks. you don't dare change strain. if ya untie a conductor you go real slow and sort of let the conducter slip through the tie in slow motion listening real carefull for that tell tale creek or groan. Over the years I've gotten real good with the back yard digger, after you set the new pole you lash the old with the new real good before moving anything. I always look real carefull about six feet up for a rusty nail. If you look at the nail real carefull sometimes you find a date stamped in the head of the nail.

[lewy]

Really interesting Lewy. Makes me wonder why different Utilities, especially here in the states, don't choose to use Insulators like this. Maby more than I know of do. I wonder if they are alot more expensive than Glass? I sure haven't seen any of em here in FloriDUH.

I have no idea obviously, but they are by far the easiest insulator to work with I have ever seen. Maybe it is the same reason Americans do not use the robertson screw

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmm OK I'll bite.............. whut the heck izza robinson screw?

[kooman]

why are date nails worth a fortune???

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmm summa em wuz made frum brass so they wudnt rust. I aint sure they have a real value uther than to the guy whut finds em. Ummm Braggin rights yanno fer the oldest. I usta have several but I dunna whut ever happened wif em. If theres a market fer em I'll maybe start lookin fer em.

[Highplains Drifter]

Eythay arebay ethay estbay edgesway orfay abay ammerhay.

[Lineman North Florida]

Eythay arebay ethay estbay edgesway orfay abay ammerhay.Pig latin haven't heard that in a while.:D

[lewy]

OK I'll bite.............. whut the heck izza robinson screw?[/QUOTE]


Yeah...Me too!:confused:


http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Ontario/robertson_screws.htm
http://www.robertsonscrew.com/products.html

I hope this helps, as far as I know these screw are not used in the U.S.A.

[lewy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kEiDJprhNU&feature=related

He should have been using an all-angle cog instead of a live line ratchet, but it is that quick to clamp in.

[MI-Lineman]

Actually I've stopped usin them cause that part about them "rarely" slippin comes true for me all to often? I switched to torx and star bits. Still not perfect but better than the damn slotted screws!:rolleyes:

[AEE/linehand]

[QUOTE=kooman;88897]these are the ones
[url]http://www.electricnet.com/product.mvc/Insulator-15kV-Poly-Pin-Type-Tie-Top-0001?VNETCOOKIE

just started using these awhile back and the verdict is still out. they seem difficult to tighten on the arm pin just right and i have watched them loosen them selves up while waiting to set the pole. maybe if the putty on the inside were warmer? the manufacture says you don't need the rubber sleeve that comes with the preform but it still helps the tie fit snugger. On the down side, compared to glass, hand ties are difficult because of the large flat surface.

[Highplains Drifter]

[QUOTE=kooman;88897]these are the ones
[url]http://www.electricnet.com/product.mvc/Insulator-15kV-Poly-Pin-Type-Tie-Top-0001?VNETCOOKIE

just started using these awhile back and the verdict is still out. they seem difficult to tighten on the arm pin just right and i have watched them loosen them selves up while waiting to set the pole. maybe if the putty on the inside were warmer?


That is fairly a simple fix, wrap one layer of 88 on the threads of the pin in the direction of the threads.

[Trbl639]

Or do like you do with a porcelain ...beat on the pin, while turning the insultor............as far as hard to hand tie on the big flat surface.............the old porcelain 19.9/34.5 had the almost same big flat area and we never had trouble hand clipping them........

[Highplains Drifter]

Or do like you do with a porcelain ...beat on the pin, while turning the insultor....................


The wrap of tape works great with porcelain too, it's the plastic threads on the pins that cause the problem.

[Trbl639]

The wrap of tape works great with porcelain too, it's the plastic threads on the pins that cause the problem.

Yessir.....that works too!

[justhoofit]

they are no longer in stock here in metro area in mn. we have alot of these on our 34.5 system and all the salt that accumulates over winter causes pole fires in the spring with the first mist, which in my opinion start fires faster than ceramic. then you get to go up with blow torch and melt the conductor out while you hold the phase and land a new CERAMIC PIN. its just my opinion that i dont like them but we have lots of problems I.E. an overloaded feeder melted around a mile of one phase on the feeder and the conductor was melted into all of these poly insulators. wouldnt have happened with ceramic. for what its worth!

[lewy]

they are no longer in stock here in metro area in mn. we have alot of these on our 34.5 system and all the salt that accumulates over winter causes pole fires in the spring with the first mist, which in my opinion start fires faster than ceramic. then you get to go up with blow torch and melt the conductor out while you hold the phase and land a new CERAMIC PIN. its just my opinion that i dont like them but we have lots of problems I.E. an overloaded feeder melted around a mile of one phase on the feeder and the conductor was melted into all of these poly insulators. wouldnt have happened with ceramic. for what its worth!

We have more problems with salt & pole fires (we do not have a lot of pole fires) with our glass than our poly, as far as the conductor melting into the poly all of ours have a mechanical clamp. I can not remember the last time I clamped in with tie wire

[Trbl639]

I don't remember seeing any where the phase had melted into the poly, but could see where it could happen, just never seen it.........

[Highplains Drifter]

I don't know what is so hard about tightening pin insulators. I never tightened the pin first. I made up a closed loop- piece of Pee-line placed the ear over the lip of the insulator and spun it clock wise, with a screw driver, until the insulator was tight on pin then tightened pin. It is called contractor speed framing. Before the job was over every apprentice, Journeyman and grunt had one. I guess I will have to get the drag bag out and take a picture of it. You can spin it tight enough to bust the insulator. You better damned well have one to remove one tightened this way or just break it off with a hammer.


I am glad you posted this, I was afraid I was the only one that tightened the pin after I have the insulator tight, My P line tightener I usually leave with an apprentice but I use a 12” to 15” piece of switch rod and drill a hole and eye splice the rope there. And there are other things that work good too as the soft bale of a secondary cu DE With the plastic threads it work just the same as the lead heads having the seam of the threads facing the direction you want the groove of the insulator going. The biggest thing I see abused is transmission suspension and DE polies. If one reads the instructions it tells you not to let them bend when handling them and it seem like they are thrown everywhere.

[Trbl639]

Worked with an old contract hand that showed me the P-line tightener...worked pretty good....

Seen several of the poly bells thrashed on angles, where the eyenut wasn't turned with the angle...we always or most always put a clevis/shackle between the PB and the eyenut or sister eye on angles.......seen some guys use em on straight line DE's/DblDE's.....

[MI-Lineman]

they are no longer in stock here in metro area in mn. we have alot of these on our 34.5 system and all the salt that accumulates over winter causes pole fires in the spring with the first mist, which in my opinion start fires faster than ceramic. then you get to go up with blow torch and melt the conductor out while you hold the phase and land a new CERAMIC PIN. its just my opinion that i dont like them but we have lots of problems I.E. an overloaded feeder melted around a mile of one phase on the feeder and the conductor was melted into all of these poly insulators. wouldnt have happened with ceramic. for what its worth!

EW! EW! Sounds like OT in the makin!!:D Sign me up!!!:cool:

[lewy]

Well we all get old, it is the ones that don't learn along the way that are old and left behind. Learn from the older ones, pass it on to the younger. It is the assholes that hide their knowledge from others that are destined to get burned.

I agree, but us old guys also have to be open to new ideas. We cant just keep doing things the same way we did 20 years ago, I know some of the stuff I built back then I would not build the same way today.

[lewy]

That was answered in the in the first sentence.


Well we all get old, it is the ones that don't learn along the way that are old and left behind. Learn from the older ones, pass it on to the younger. It is the assholes that hide their knowledge from others that are destined to get burned.

I guess some of us old guys have to learn how to read better as well

[Lineman_piet]

Up here in Canada- its all we use is the poly. I'd say my piece as my experience- they are cool, that you can throw them around. Its nice to stack all kinds of stuff you might need and know they wont break. I wonder tho- rubber- no matter what you do to it, its still rubber and the sun's UV's love to break down rubber. I think its future job security. They can't possibly last as long a earth- roasted and shiny. Also for money- I thought that a new 2 skirt poly isulator, say good to 15 kv is $52 the same porcelin would be $2. Any one know is thats somewhat correct?

[Electriceel]

10 kv glass is around $3 bucks, a 15 kv poly is $4 bucks. Both of these in the pin style.

[neil macgregor]

any of you lads ever tried to twist these things under tension
if you look at them they have a seem down the water sheds
that runs in a straight line if you try to twist these under tension
the seem will twist .if it does you will have to change these
as it will be truely fecked inside

[lewy]

any of you lads ever tried to twist these things under tension
if you look at them they have a seem down the water sheds
that runs in a straight line if you try to twist these under tension
the seem will twist .if it does you will have to change these
as it will be truely fecked inside

I do not understand why you would try & twist them, could you please explain?

[Trbl639]

any of you lads ever tried to twist these things under tension
if you look at them they have a seem down the water sheds
that runs in a straight line if you try to twist these under tension
the seem will twist .if it does you will have to change these
as it will be truely fecked inside

As I mentioned earlier...on any angle, we put a clevis/shackle between the dead end poly and the eye nut/sister eye, to prevent any twist, as they are not designed to be twisted......

[lewy]

As I mentioned earlier...on any angle, we put a clevis/shackle between the dead end poly and the eye nut/sister eye, to prevent any twist, as they are not designed to be twisted......

We attach them to a D at the pole & use what we call a neutral saddle to clamp onto the wire for corners from 16 to 45 degrees. It is all we have used since I have started & have never heard of them twisting.

[Trbl639]

We attach them to a D at the pole & use what we call a neutral saddle to clamp onto the wire for corners from 16 to 45 degrees. It is all we have used since I have started & have never heard of them twisting.

Seems we had some contractors on the property that didn't know to turn the eyelets on an angle arm...left them strait up instead of on their side....it did twist them, we didn't know it till a big oak came down on it, and saw what they had done.........

[lewy]

I noticed in parts of North Florida they are starting to go to polymer insulators on brackets compared to mounting the glass right to the pole, I wonder how they like the change?

[trigger]

I have seen the wire melt into the poly. I have seen Copperweld vibrate through poly pin type on fiber arms in the center phase position on a steel pole and with some contamination and some moisture burn the wire down. I have seen the wire cut down from lighting and run through the clamp style poly pin type for multiple spans. I have seen the DE poly bells blister in the sun as well as the poly cut outs. Have seen the plastic bolts back out of the clamp type poly pins. The base plate for the poly vertical mounts plus wire clamps, line guard and Damper running $100x3 vs. $50 for X arm const. Gotta have dampers on vertical and steel poles or the studs shear off on the angles within weeks. We have a saying here that when management makes their own decisions we make more money.

[lewy]

Wow must be the heat you have in the summer, we get to around 30C (90F) in the summer and we have none of the problems you state and have been using mainly poly for over 25 years. All of our post insulators have mechanical clamps which are so much safer and faster, I could unclamp on old pole and move phase up to a new pole and clamp in before it would be untied using tie wire. The problem we are having with glass is we get cracks then we get water that freezes then insulator falls off.

[rob8210]

Sounds like they are talking about the plastic Hendrix insulators. Polymers have been in use since the 1980's and I haven't heard of many problems with them except some Epac and chance suspensions.