Bucksqueeze

[Boomer gone soft]

I dug out on a pole a number of years and I still carry the "visual aids" on my arms and chest.....

Alliant Energy has a policy that apprentices are required to use fall protection devices and journeymen have the option to opt-in.....but once a journeyman is issued and trained on one of these devices it becomes mandatory for him.

We have a yearly "safety day" where we do all of our training, fire extinguishers annual certification, hearing tests, hurt man training, etc. I suggested this year to let journeymen try the bucksqueeze without having to keep it for that day. I ended up trying it and I was impressed.

I personally feel much more secure on the pole. (The older I get the less necessary I feel much of the bravado is for me.)

Has anybody else transitioned to the bucksqueeze? What have been your perceptions, problems, etc now that they have been out for a good long while?

The fact is: it won't be long until ALL of us are mandated to use them.....We linemen just HATE losing the right to choose.

[Highplains Drifter]

I personally feel much more secure on the pole. (The older I get the less necessary I feel much of the bravado is for me.)





You aren't that old are you? I thought you was an ex wood tick and them guys always are showing of with their rappelling and what not.......Now I will tell you about getting older and I'm am sure some others will vouch with me. It gets harder to sit :rolleyes: on steel and cross arms cause your balls hang lots lower.....;)

[Highplains Drifter]

You know where I live mother fu$ker.

THAT would be something to Video!! :D
A 62 year old man...kickin the Fu$k out of a 65 year old man!! Can you even make a fist...fatboy?:D



In all honesty I'd put my money on the Texan........:D...your just a wimp punk...

[Boomer gone soft]

You aren't that old are you? I thought you was an ex wood tick and them guys always are showing of with their rappelling and what not.......Now I will tell you about getting older and I'm am sure some others will vouch with me. It gets harder to sit :rolleyes: on steel and cross arms cause your balls hang lots lower.....;)

Not as old as some and younger than I feel most days! I am an ex woodtick. 12 years with Asplundh. I'll be 38 this May, but every year I fall a little heavier than the last!

Bats, he who bests a fool accomplishes nothing! Everybody who has an iota of understanding knows what a fool swampsuck is.....let it go, Brother.;)

Swampsuck, take your bullshit somewhere else.....I'm trying to ask a legitmate question here.

[Highplains Drifter]

Not as old as some and younger than I feel most days! I am an ex woodtick. 12 years with Asplundh. I'll be 38 this May, but every year I fall a little heavier than the last!



38......and here is what a 42 year old did on 1/08/2011...... and explain how a buck squeeze would work here......these folks aren't going to put up with them and will hang up their hooks if it becomes mandatory.....




2912

[lewy]

38......and here is what a 42 year old did on 1/08/2011...... and explain how a buck squeeze would work here......these folks aren't going to put up with them and will hang up their hooks if it becomes mandatory.....




2912

If it became the law of the land they would still be there & the company's know that.

[Boomer gone soft]

38......and here is what a 42 year old did on 1/08/2011...... and explain how a buck squeeze would work here......these folks aren't going to put up with them and will hang up their hooks if it becomes mandatory.....




2912

HD, I get that you're opposed to the bucksqueeze-- and many journeymen are. I respect your opinion and contentment with the old ways.

The question I was asking was not whether or not we should use bucksqueezes and the like.....we will never all agree on much around here! Soon it will be a moot point anyway....mandatory use is coming and all of the bravado and pissing and moaning is not going to still that tide.

I was specifically asking for opinions from those who have been using the new systems.

[pre_apprentice_ID]

Quote:I was specifically asking for opinions from those who have been using the new systems.

I learned to climb with the squeeze in line school. only climbed with a skid for a day or two, attached to a cable device.

I got out of line school and tossed the buck squeeze and started using the skid and I love it. A lot more freedom with the skid.

[Boomer gone soft]

There's some truth in what you say about the fear making you more concious of your climbing.....that has certainly been the case for me.

But that extra concentration on climbing, means less concentration on working.....

There's an argument for and against these new tools and mandates. No matter what the innovation or standard, there is always those who cling to old ways as better. It was that way with simple no-brainers like safety glasses, FR shirts, rubber gloves, hard hats.....you name it. No matter what we have changed, there have always been and will always be those who cannot see the forest for the trees.

I don't want to debate that.

I just want to hear from those who have or are using the bucksqueeze.

I have already made my decision on what to climb with, I would like advice on the best way to use it. If that's not you-- START ANOTHER THREAD AND HAVE YOUR SAY THERE!!!!!

[MI-Lineman]

Quote:I was specifically asking for opinions from those who have been using the new systems.

I learned to climb with the squeeze in line school. only climbed with a skid for a day or two, attached to a cable device.

I got out of line school and tossed the buck squeeze and started using the skid and I love it. A lot more freedom with the skid.

This f$ckin topic again? At least we know this app would make it with out the f$ck squeeze!:cool: Good for you!

GROW A SET AND BUCK THE SQUEEZE OR GET OUT!!!

[Tuski]

I'm in lineman school, and we had 2 days of free climbing, and from now on we'll use the bucksqueeze. The instructors say this is the first year they will teach with it. Was all free climbing before... so I'm so green I don't really know much difference.

[lewy]

Boomer if you are doing this because you want too, look in to some different options if you can.
With the pole choker it is easy to cheat & not use the cross strap & than it is like a normal belt, comes in handy when climbing poles with big butts. Once I get over the first obstacle I never use the cross strap.

[albmm05]

We use the jelco strap in Saskatchewan, and it is a good fall arrest device except if your climbing anything but a bare pole. I have been in the trade 10 years and have climbed with both the good old fashioned strap and the Jelco 3 and 4, still prefer the old and true, but have to put up with the new and retarded. Although the jelco can be adjusted with a one timer to make it a regular strap, which is how 99% of us use it, so if I do kick out and hit the ground my brothers have the instructions to make the one timer dissappear before 911 comes

[hobbyknocker]

The Bashlin pole lariat is the closest thing to freeclimbing as you are going to get and be considered 100% fall protected. I have a Jelco and hate it in comparison to the lariat.

[old lineman]

Boomer if you are doing this because you want too, look in to some different options if you can.
With the pole choker it is easy to cheat & not use the cross strap & than it is like a normal belt, comes in handy when climbing poles with big butts. Once I get over the first obstacle I never use the cross strap.


Lewy, Lewy, Lewy, you of all people should know that if something goes wrong you will suffer the consequence and your immediate supervisors ass could be in a sling.
Seen it happen and it ain't pretty.
The Old Lineman

[MI-Lineman]

Lewy, Lewy, Lewy, you of all people should know that if something goes wrong you will suffer the consequence and your immediate supervisors ass could be in a sling.
Seen it happen and it ain't pretty.
The Old Lineman

I gotta agree! I wouldn't risk my job? If I have to wear it someday then I will but every dam climb just doubled in time and the first time I feel an ache or pain usin that dam thing then off to the doctor I go and it will be documented! My opinion (once again!:rolleyes:) is this "wood pole fall restraint" is not the answer!! There's gotta be smarter engineers than this out there somewhere?

[Highplains Drifter]

So...there ya go.
A company that dosen't mandate Fall restraint? They get sued for not havin it. A company that Does mandate Fall restraint? Gets an attitude like this.

You better hope insurance companys aren't "readin the mail" here. Cause they will sure as hell Copy that post man...for futrue Litigation.

That statement is not near as bad as you threating the President Of the united States, your Alzheimer Disease must be getting worse....

[Highplains Drifter]

But that extra concentration on climbing, means less concentration on working..... !


Boomer, I never had that problem that I had to concentrate on climbing, just get up there and get the work done. But with the bucket babies and that attitude just go ahead and justify the buck squeeze. Justification is an easy way out!!!! I always wonder how them guys that don't like to climb and will spends hours trying to get a bucket truck into a pole or hours getting one unstuck, justify the the extra time to do a half hour climbing job.....:rolleyes:

[MI-Lineman]

So...there ya go.
A company that dosen't mandate Fall restraint? They get sued for not havin it. A company that Does mandate Fall restraint? Gets an attitude like this.

You better hope insurance companys aren't "readin the mail" here. Cause they will sure as hell Copy that post man...for futrue Litigation.

Swamp that's not an attitude it's a fact! Try one on if ya still can! I'm not gonna wear myself out cause of some dam piece of sh!t system like this thing! I have used it and it's hard on your arms and back! I plan on livin life after retirement and I'm not sufferin from problems caused by a "company policy" that I have no control over. Why should I have to pay for someone else's poor decision! All I'm sayin is if I have an injury do to this device then those that enforce it on us will pay NOT me! I'm not implyin makin sh!t up either if that's what you think cause sh!t like that just hurts all of us in the long run! I know that! Don't get the wrong idea.

BTW What the hell did my post say or you thought said that would interest the insurance companies? You took it wrong or you're referin to Lewy's post maybe?

[MI-Lineman]

It's just interesting man. You post how opposed you are to using the Piece of Shit fu$k squeeze...even if it is mandated by your company.

I just thought it was interesting...that if mandated "safety requirements" of a company, are met and utilized by the workers...you still think you have a reason to Sue...if you have problems using the "mandated" Safety equipment.:confused:

Where...if the company DIDN'T mandate the use of the Fu$k squeeze....the employee could STILL sue the company for NOT manditing it's use!

I'm with you. I hate the god damn thing. I hate the concept of it. It's degrading to Linemen.
But...that's NOT what this is all about man. And you know that...

NO MAN!:eek: Where did I say anything about suing? You know we all have aches n pains we "work through" that are probably due to work but dam this thing is junk and I've seen younger kids get elbow issues and back pains from it! That's why they get people "cheatin" the dam thing. Then those one's are the first ones to say "it's not that bad!":rolleyes: Yeah if you don't suck the dam thing down to the pole and have the adjuster and D-ring set at "3 and 9" like you're supposed to. Course then you're defeatin the purpose!

I'm sayin if it hurts me then the companies payin the doc bill! If it's not due to the belt then so be it! That's all! There's better devices out there than this but I won't be able to choose so if they make the choice than it's on them if an issue arises cause of it?

I'm not sue happy for God's sakes man!:rolleyes: Sh!t we didn't even like acceptin that trip from Make-A-Wish last year when I came to your town! I usually earn what I get!

The thing that would concern me is people tryin to cheat it, havin an accident, and gettin caught! That's where comments like Lewy's would be trouble? Never mind the cost to the company of your recovery if ya did fool them!

[Boomer gone soft]

Boomer if you are doing this because you want too, look in to some different options if you can.
With the pole choker it is easy to cheat & not use the cross strap & than it is like a normal belt, comes in handy when climbing poles with big butts. Once I get over the first obstacle I never use the cross strap.

Thanks, Lewy.:)

Finally somebody that can read and understand English.

I don't give a rip about the rest of your MORONIC BRAVADO.:rolleyes:

Again, for those IDIOTS that don't get it.....:mad:

I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD USE THE BUCKSQUEEZE FROM THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO IT--I DON'T CARE!!!!!
I WANT TO HEAR FROM THOSE WHO HAVE USED OR ARE USINGIT.

All others can reply to another thread or start their own.

[Highplains Drifter]

Then you should have posted this thread in the apprentice section....:p

[Boomer gone soft]

Boomer, I never had that problem that I had to concentrate on climbing, just get up there and get the work done. But with the bucket babies and that attitude just go ahead and justify the buck squeeze. Justification is an easy way out!!!! I always wonder how them guys that don't like to climb and will spends hours trying to get a bucket truck into a pole or hours getting one unstuck, justify the the extra time to do a half hour climbing job.....:rolleyes:

Like I said, just not impressed or moved by your machoism......

I have been a contractor, boomer, drifter....whatever.

I do most of my climbing alone......not talking big in front of an apprentice and having my pole buddy taking fancy pictures of me on the high line to impress the bar flies.

I am a service rep who works all hours by myself and I gladly will use fall restraint.....

and remain a union-trained, class A member, JOURNEYMAN LINEMAN.

AND THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I WILL RETURN TO MY WIFE AND DAUGHTERS EVERY NIGHT FROM MY NICE CUSHY POWER COMPANY PUKE JOB BECAUSE I CHOOSE SAFETY OVER BRAVADO.:p

[mommer]

Thanks, Lewy.:)

Finally somebody that can read and understand English.

I don't give a rip about the rest of your MORONIC BRAVADO.:rolleyes:

Again, for those IDIOTS that don't get it.....:mad:

I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD USE THE BUCKSQUEEZE FROM THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO IT--I DON'T CARE!!!!!
I WANT TO HEAR FROM THOSE WHO HAVE USED OR ARE USINGIT.

All others can reply to another thread or start their own.


using it every day ;) and let me tell you. it will keep you from falling, but is that the issue? what happens when you are holding 2 hotsticks and cant move arround the pole without 2 hands? that to me seems to be a bigger issue than falling?

[Boomer gone soft]

using it every day ;) and let me tell you. it will keep you from falling, but is that the issue? what happens when you are holding 2 hotsticks and cant move arround the pole without 2 hands? that to me seems to be a bigger issue than falling?

What do you do about it? How often do you have to move more than 180 degrees without both hands (I understand the inner straps allows 180 degrees of travel around the pole- 90 each way- without moving the outer strap)? I am trying to imagine a scenerio where that would be required, but I can't right now....

[MI-Lineman]

Thanks, Lewy.:)

Finally somebody that can read and understand English.

I don't give a rip about the rest of your MORONIC BRAVADO.:rolleyes:

Again, for those IDIOTS that don't get it.....:mad:

I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD USE THE BUCKSQUEEZE FROM THOSE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO IT--I DON'T CARE!!!!!
I WANT TO HEAR FROM THOSE WHO HAVE USED OR ARE USINGIT.

All others can reply to another thread or start their own.

Well for your info I USED IT! It's a piece of sh!t! If they want "wood pole fall protection" this particular device isn't the answer!

If you didn't want this much attention why wouldn't you just search the dam thing on here and read the endless posts on it?:rolleyes:

[Boomer gone soft]

MI,

I did research it, but you can't interact with archives.

What device do you think is the answer to wood pole fall protecttion? If there isn't one on the market now, what changes do you think could be made to satisfy you?

It's not necessary to be angry because somebody askeds a question and would like replies pertinent to that question. If you're that tired of this subject, simply read another thread. Sharing of information is what I thought this site was supposed to be about, but it continually falls more more down toward macho bs posturing regardless of the thread that's posted.....

[Boomer gone soft]

Try this own for size. LEARN TO CLIMB.

I have never NEVER NEVER cut out safetyed off. I have cut out free climbing with and without a belt. HOW IN THE FUK ONE CAN CUT OUT SAFETYED OFF IS SO OUT OF SCOPE, THAT I FIGURE YOU ARE A CLUMB SOME IDIOT.
I also know how it feels to lose someome that was killed in a fall. (one of your so call poses of highliners) Rollie Ellis and Wofie 800 ft above the Mississippi, cut out with his hooks less than 3 ft off the ground hit his head and dided.

Good job on figuring out the significance of the bucksqueeze, genius.

Fall restraint means ascending and descending while still being safetied off.....:rolleyes:

I am glad others before you had a different approach to safety innovations; otherwise we might still be expecting one out of two linemen to die at work. There is no shame in looking for a better safer way to do the work-- That was one of the primary reasons the IBEW was formed in the first place. Many experienced climbers, who have been recognized by their peers as excellent climbers, have suffered terrible falls......why wouldn't we look for ways to change that? Many so-called Brothers have forgotten the Union's purpose is to promote healthier, safer working conditions and that is secondary to wage/benefit concerns. Instead, too many want to deride and chastise those who are willing to try something different.

The fact that I would rather never have to fall than be macho does not mean I do not know how to climb.....it just means I also enjoy walking.

Those who have never fallen probably possese skills as a climber.....but they have a damn sight higher dose of "dumb luck".

[Pootnaigle]

From my perspective if you have never cut out then you havent climbed many poles!!!!!!!!!!!! I have never tried the Bucksqueeze so I cant really make an intelligent post on it other than it looks like a major pain in the ass to use and near impossible on a lot of the stuff we usta climb everday.I absolutely hated the harness when they got the big push from OSHA, and I am still not convinced that using one is anything other than a death trap.But that is now the norm.I spect the fall protection will possibly alter construction standards in the future and That may be a good thing. Let them cable tv and telephone boys bury their crap.. leaving us a nice clean pole. Damn glad I no longer hafta worry bout it.Also looks to me that its wayyy overpriced.

[MI-Lineman]

MI,

I did research it, but you can't interact with archives.

What device do you think is the answer to wood pole fall protecttion? If there isn't one on the market now, what changes do you think could be made to satisfy you?

It's not necessary to be angry because somebody askeds a question and would like replies pertinent to that question. If you're that tired of this subject, simply read another thread. Sharing of information is what I thought this site was supposed to be about, but it continually falls more more down toward macho bs posturing regardless of the thread that's posted.....

CALM DOWN! I'm just messin with ya man!:o That's why I enlarged my words like you did.:p

Look I understand "The industry" and a few lineman (OK maybe quite a few?) want to be protected from a fall but to force the first thing that literally straps ya to the stick cause that's all a pencil pusher wants and knows is way overboard! Companies that don't enforce it YET have already strayed away from properly training their employees to climb! I've been involved with training here and it's real obvious. It makes me sick!

I've fallin and got my souvenirs to prove it but to be honest ALMOST every time was my error! Mostly not payin attention and gettin complacent with climbin! Most cases this is the reason for a fall and so like with any "true safety concern" a company has they just blindly shoot from the hip and throw the first thing they think fixes the problem at us!

My opinion the Bashlin Pole Lariat (and I have not tried one or have any affiliation with Bashlin) is quite a bit closer to the solution! Someone posted a vid on here with it in use and I think it's on You tube now? If you've done any amount of time on the stick you'll see this is more what we need as far as positioning, comfort, and ease of operatin. You practically use your old skid with this device in ready ONLY to (hopefully) stop your fall! It's supposedly not perfect as the instructors here claim if it falls below your hips your out of "fall arrest" but I've had others tell me it's not true? Don't know for sure but what ever the maximum distance OSHA excepts for a fall may be the concern as it looks like you may still drop a few feet into the slack of the device? The f$cksqueeze isn't perfect either as we had a few "incidents" with it but it gets played off as user error? Which brings me to my next point and this is what really pisses me off.....If you (and I don't mean you Boom specifically) are so concerned with your safety why in the hell would you post on here how to cheat the device?:confused: We got it cause hands are makin errors to begin with and now the companies will see they HAVEN'T found the answer as we come up with ways to cheat it so what's next? They'll never get rid of the "human factor" but they'll for dam sure make it hard on us in the mean time!

Keep your knees locked, @ss in, toes up, and eyes open and you'll make it home!

[Boomer gone soft]

MI,

You make a very valid point about the human equation. The best approach I've seen in dealing with that is the Safe Start program. Alliant Energy implemented that program a few years back and I have 100% buy-in to that because it stresses the causes of accidents (eyes on task, mind on task, rushing, fatigue, line of fire, complacency) rather than hurling more rules at us. The pole lariat was one of the fall arrest devices I tried at this year's safety day when I chose the bucksqueeze. The lariat, as you mentioned, takes a bit to arrest the fall.....I didn't like that. The number of feet OSHA allows for a fall restraint to arrest a fall is 3 feet.....That's still a lot of momentum (6 inches of fall causes the nuts to suck up enough). Also, what if you are working above something like a can or a cap bank? If you were depending on a lariat, I think you could still fall into it.

One thing this discussion has cemented in my mind is that Alliant Energy is taking the right approach at this time. They are letting Journeymen choose.

While we are on the subject, their blue hat program is catching on as well. If fact, it was a blue hat that demonstrated the various available options to us. A lot of the safety message that was being missed because it came from management and those who have never held a tool is now being really heard in the rank and file.

[lewy]

CALM DOWN! I'm just messin with ya man!:o That's why I enlarged my words like you did.:p

Look I understand "The industry" and a few lineman (OK maybe quite a few?) want to be protected from a fall but to force the first thing that literally straps ya to the stick cause that's all a pencil pusher wants and knows is way overboard! Companies that don't enforce it YET have already strayed away from properly training their employees to climb! I've been involved with training here and it's real obvious. It makes me sick!

I've fallin and got my souvenirs to prove it but to be honest ALMOST every time was my error! Mostly not payin attention and gettin complacent with climbin! Most cases this is the reason for a fall and so like with any "true safety concern" a company has they just blindly shoot from the hip and throw the first thing they think fixes the problem at us!

My opinion the Bashlin Pole Lariat (and I have not tried one or have any affiliation with Bashlin) is quite a bit closer to the solution! Someone posted a vid on here with it in use and I think it's on You tube now? If you've done any amount of time on the stick you'll see this is more what we need as far as positioning, comfort, and ease of operatin. You practically use your old skid with this device in ready ONLY to (hopefully) stop your fall! It's supposedly not perfect as the instructors here claim if it falls below your hips your out of "fall arrest" but I've had others tell me it's not true? Don't know for sure but what ever the maximum distance OSHA excepts for a fall may be the concern as it looks like you may still drop a few feet into the slack of the device? The f$cksqueeze isn't perfect either as we had a few "incidents" with it but it gets played off as user error? Which brings me to my next point and this is what really pisses me off.....If you (and I don't mean you Boom specifically) are so concerned with your safety why in the hell would you post on here how to cheat the device?:confused: We got it cause hands are makin errors to begin with and now the companies will see they HAVEN'T found the answer as we come up with ways to cheat it so what's next? They'll never get rid of the "human factor" but they'll for dam sure make it hard on us in the mean time!

Keep your knees locked, @ss in, toes up, and eyes open and you'll make it home!

I mentioned that you can cheat with the pole choker, but when you are cheating it is clearly obvious to anyone who is familiar with the device, just like you can cheat if you work ground to ground rubber glove, but the people watching will know you are cheating. If anyone wants to break company rules they most times can, they just should be aware of the consequences of getting caught, that is why I asked Boomer if he had a choice about fall arrest? If you have a choice & choose not to use a piece of safety equipment
you are not cheating.

[Boomer gone soft]

DUMB LUCK???? YOUR ONE IGNORANT FUK!! IT WAS SKILL DEVELOPED OVER YEARS OF CLIMBING DAY BY DAY NOT BY PEOPLE THAT PARKS HIS HOOKS WEEKS AT A TIME.Well here is another soultion. If you are such a pussy QUIT AND GET OUT OF THE TRADE. I DON'T NEED A PUKE NEVER BEEN NOTHING TO TELL ME ABOUT FUKING CLIMBING. UNDERSTAND. JUST WATCHING THOSE NEWBIES SPEED CLIMB AND POLE TOP RESCUE AT THE INTERNALIONAL RODEO MADE ME SICK. HOW IN THE FUK CAN YOU EVEN MENTION LINEMAN AND YOURSELF IN THE SAME PHRASE???/

nutjob, ever consider therapy?

[Highplains Drifter]

nutjob, ever consider therapy?

You need to follow your own directions:


My suggestion is this:

Each of us needs to start saying exactly what we mean. How many threats of violence have been posted on here on the last month?

If you and Bats are not really going to do those childish threats, why make them?

If we cannot say what we mean, and mean what we say, then how can we expect others in the World to understand that words mean things?

If all we speak in are extremes, the words lose their meaning. Soon our speech is nothing but a garbled message of bold letters and large type. More exclamation points don't make your meaning any clearer.

Then, after we learn to communicate better, we hold others to a higher standard in their communication. I am not saying we need to regulate or legislate free speech. But we have every right and duty to stipulate what we find acceptable rhetoric.....and MUCH of what is in the media is PLAINLY UNACCEPTABLE.


The man was telling you the truth about climbing skills and you don't like hearing it.

[MI-Lineman]

I mentioned that you can cheat with the pole choker, but when you are cheating it is clearly obvious to anyone who is familiar with the device, just like you can cheat if you work ground to ground rubber glove, but the people watching will know you are cheating. If anyone wants to break company rules they most times can, they just should be aware of the consequences of getting caught, that is why I asked Boomer if he had a choice about fall arrest? If you have a choice & choose not to use a piece of safety equipment
you are not cheating.

If you use a piece of equipment, especially safety equipment you should always follow the training by the company (and I believe where you're at you are required to use fall restraint are you not?) and the manufacturers recommendations! I'm not specifically referring to your post but previous posts in previous threads on this never ending subject!

As for Boom, I never climb directly above energized primary equipment that I am able to fall on or into! Was taught that from day one whether it's covered or not! They make lay out equipment not only for reconductering but every day work also! As for fallin into denergized cans and such I guess I'd take that any day over that dam f$cksqueeze? You mentioned somethin about how much you really have to turn when climbin and I'm not sure what all you have over there but in that dam belt I see men struggle to change a dead end bell on an 8ft arm let alone a 10ft'r, alley arms, or even the 12 ft timbers Detroit had! In fact layin sh!t out is ridiculously excruciating in it. I've done more than just try out that thing so I'm confident in my opinion there has to be somethin better?

Like I said the Pole Lariat isn't perfect but I'm sure you could agree the concept of being able to work out of your regular skid while havin the security of fall arrest is a good one not that the Lariat does that perfectly? I'm sayin the concept! Like I said we have had "incidents" with the f$cksqueeze, one from around 20 ft and the other from 40! Try not to get to "complacent" usin that or any so-called "fall arrest!" Too many I've seen had.

I use both hands almost all the time when workin from the stick and was always taught to keep my hands off the stick or belt especially with energized equipment in the other hand :rolleyes:and now with that dam thing newbies are draped all over the poles and hardware like they had nothin on at all! Dam shame! Kill one safety rule for another!

That's nice about the choice you get! I hope it stays that way and becomes our option some day also and not crammed down our throats but take no offense when I say this but if I got a back yard climber and my co-worker uses his "fall arrest" they'll either get me someone with out one to assist me or someone with one to assist him? Course I'd be there for either in case of an accident!

[MI-Lineman]

My personal Old ass, just thinks,...the difference is, in my day, I took any opportunity I could to get in my hooks. I hated the bucket. The Bucket was for the "Old guys". I wanted to BE...ON the pole.:cool: Just LOVED IT!!!

Times change my friend. So do the "rules".....:( "Progress", right?
Yup.

I don't know it just seems like to some it's become just another job? Sad to say but that's what it's comin to! I usually have to ask and even beg to climb a dam pole instead of tearin down fences or tearin up yards just to do a little bit of work! I used to like this job! Oh well!:(

Enough about this again for a while!

[Highplains Drifter]

I don't know it just seems like to some it's become just another job? Sad to say but that's what it's comin to! I usually have to ask and even beg to climb a dam pole instead of tearin down fences or tearin up yards just to do a little bit of work! I used to like this job! Oh well!:(

Enough about this again for a while!


I have never in my career seen anyone on a pole climb above any energized equipment and I can not imagine that any Utility would endorse that work code for their trouble-men who are by themselves to be above energized equipment.

Boomer, Alliant Energy allows this?.. What about you TG?

[mommer]

What do you do about it? How often do you have to move more than 180 degrees without both hands (I understand the inner straps allows 180 degrees of travel around the pole- 90 each way- without moving the outer strap)? I am trying to imagine a scenerio where that would be required, but I can't right now....

the turn you get is just wrong. not arround the pole.but in your belt. you cant go from quarter to quarter, but just in the one position you can twist. something you don't even have to think about with a regular skid. just take one and get on a pole.. pretend you have your hands full and gotta move around. if you don't have one.. take mine. the bucksqueeze sucks! it takes fun and turns it into a job.

as for paying more attention to the work and not the climbing that somebody said.. hell no! constantly dealing with what feels like "the brakes on" could put a frusterated lineman into a bad spot.. just due to the manditory peice of shit!! just my $.02

[Boomer gone soft]

Did I really just hear Bats accuse me of running off at the mouth?

ouch...that really hurts.

How terrible! Who would ever tolerate a smart-assed lineman? Why I should try to read meters.....only I can't count.:rolleyes:

[Boomer gone soft]

My personal Old ass, just thinks,...the difference is, in my day, I took any opportunity I could to get in my hooks. I hated the bucket. The Bucket was for the "Old guys". I wanted to BE...ON the pole.:cool: Just LOVED IT!!!

Times change my friend. So do the "rules".....:( "Progress", right?
Yup.

That's not the only issue.....especially for those of us who are not construction lineman.

The companies themselves don't want us to climb if we can help it. Hell Alliant Energy doesn't even like us to use an MD-X or a Y-35 anymore--- all battery or hydraulic operated tools. "Repetitive motion injuries"

As far as I can see, Swamp, the movement in the bucksqueeze is more free from the movement of the inner strap. The restriction is far more in the outer strap; which translates to having to use your hands to circle the pole.

[Boomer gone soft]

I have never in my career seen anyone on a pole climb above any energized equipment and I can not imagine that any Utility would endorse that work code for their trouble-men who are by themselves to be above energized equipment.

Boomer, Alliant Energy allows this?.. What about you TG?

Alliant would not allow that....that was a bad example. However; what about working over an underbuild? I could see somebody in that position, but cover / winging out would eliminate most of that.

At any rate, I personally would want fall restraint that doesn't take the drop-- if nothing else just for the nut in the throat factor.

[Boomer gone soft]

Read your own post, and apparently reading and counting isn't your only problem CLIMBING seems to escape your training.
I didn't accuse you of running off at the mouth. I don't know you but lineman that does that call to let me know you have trouble keeping a job due to your mouth. NUFF SAID.

Gainfully employed and celebrating 3 years with Alliant. Never spent more than 10 days on the books. Call Rudy at 304; find an opinion that doesn't have an agenda. At any rate, I've never put much stock in shit talk myself.

'nuff said.

[Boomer gone soft]

Rudy is a perssonel Friend and and we talk weekly, andif I ask him he might just tell me something you don't want brought out in public.

.....or you might have to re-think who you take calls from.

It's no secret I'm a smart-ass. And I have been known as a hot-head-- especially back in my drinking days (hell a few into sobriety for that matter).

In the end, it really doesn't matter and it really doesn't change who I am to myself, my family, my friends, my employer, or anybody else that matters.

[slimdalineman]

I dug out on a pole a number of years and I still carry the "visual aids" on my arms and chest.....

Alliant Energy has a policy that apprentices are required to use fall protection devices and journeymen have the option to opt-in.....but once a journeyman is issued and trained on one of these devices it becomes mandatory for him.

We have a yearly "safety day" where we do all of our training, fire extinguishers annual certification, hearing tests, hurt man training, etc. I suggested this year to let journeymen try the bucksqueeze without having to keep it for that day. I ended up trying it and I was impressed.

I personally feel much more secure on the pole. (The older I get the less necessary I feel much of the bravado is for me.)

Has anybody else transitioned to the bucksqueeze? What have been your perceptions, problems, etc now that they have been out for a good long while?

The fact is: it won't be long until ALL of us are mandated to use them.....We linemen just HATE losing the right to choose.

We were forced into the Bucksqueeze...hate it...couldn't imagine being a lineman and having to work out of that thing for any amount of time..hurts the elbows and back...cant turn enough...what it meant for me as a T.Shooter, I got a real big ladder that i get to most of my work with and if not i have to climb a few feet; at the very least gets me by the communication rats nest on every pole..good luck with it

[Boomer gone soft]

You know boomer you already proved your a non climbing pussy wannabee. The people that I converse with on the phone, have more history in this trade and proven themselves over and over. If they say you can't hack it, I'll take thier word over and internet lineman.

suit yourself.

The people that matter know. I've got nothing I feel I need to prove to you or anybody else.

....and I certainly no longer want to be the guy that makes everything personal.

[MI-Lineman]

Alliant would not allow that....that was a bad example. However; what about working over an underbuild? I could see somebody in that position, but cover / winging out would eliminate most of that.

At any rate, I personally would want fall restraint that doesn't take the drop-- if nothing else just for the nut in the throat factor.

I can understand that! I had to rework some sec and change out a few open wire services once after me and a journeyman worked out some primary on the same pole. I was the app at the time and he went down to the bell as I worked the sec. The stick had a hard lean and just as hard @ss low side to it! Like concrete. Guess what side the 2 services were on that needed changin?:rolleyes: Anyway I got it all done standin on the low side and just after I hot railed the block both gaffs cut out and I ended up with a leg on each side of the pole sittin on the bell! Looked like I was ridin a rocket to the moon!:D Bad part was there was those old L brackets they used to hold the guy wire when they just served the around the poles! Tore holes in both inside legs of my jeans and tore up my knees! After that I walked funny and talked in a high pitch tone for a while!:D It happens? If you're gonna have to or want to use fall arrest you would want it to be the best. I just personally don't think it's the F$cksqueeze? My opinion only! Really so far not one of them is perfect?

How long have ya used this? If ya read the posts by others that have negative input about it it's pretty much the same issues and I don't know any one on here personally so it's not like we're all in cahoots together on this. If we're (and I know we will some day:rolleyes:) gonna have fall arrest I just want the best one for the task! Yes I would prefer none but I'll accept it as soon as more serious thought and concern is put into it instead of just buildin (and rebuilding and rebuilding) a contraption from the first and I think the only design some of these so-called safety companies can think of!

Think they take it seriously? Just read that P.L. magazine issue with that Buckingham reps rebuttal? Then read the thread I posted "Not Worth The Electricity To Access" soon after and tell me what ya think? You don't have to agree but ya gotta admit I had some good points?

ONCE AGAIN....Enough on this subject! It's bumming me out!

[MI-Lineman]

THAT is just so SERIOUSLY Fu$ed up....I really don't EVEN want to talk about it.:(
What the Fu$k is this trade becoming....

You think that's f$cked up.....they go us little battery impact guns for....get this...PUTTING ONE BOLTS ON among other things!:rolleyes:

I would like to buy one for my shop though!:D

BTW Swampy I'm postin durin hours cause the boys sick and were waitin for the doc! Don't get any ideas!;)

[Highplains Drifter]

Damn......:rolleyes:
And I thought the Ratcheting Lineman s Wrench was the cats ass....
Guess even THAT is just too much work.:eek::(



The big problem with the folks using an impact gun is they way over torque the aluminum one bolts. The person that has to remove them and only has a bug wrench will be developing carpel tunnel from others not understanding the proper torque.

[Boomer gone soft]

How long have ya used this? If ya read the posts by others that have negative input about it it's pretty much the same issues and I don't know any one on here personally so it's not like we're all in cahoots together on this. If we're (and I know we will some day:rolleyes:) gonna have fall arrest I just want the best one for the task! Yes I would prefer none but I'll accept it as soon as more serious thought and concern is put into it instead of just buildin (and rebuilding and rebuilding) a contraption from the first and I think the only design some of these so-called safety companies can think of!

MI,

I just got it this week. I think it's the best of the options I was given. I basically wanted ideas and pointers from those who have been using it.

So far, I haven't got to try it. Not sure when I will.

These guys are right about one thing, I don't climb like I did in construction. I have climbed exactly 5 poles in 3 years.....I know my climbing skills aren't what they used to be and never were as good as some-- that doesn't mean I'm any less of a lineman. I just recognize my shortcomings and I am happy to use something to keep me safe.....I hope some those guys who spent so much time berating me take a moment to stop and think. In my job, I could not climb every day regardless of the amount of desire I have to do so. If I insisted on climbing, like they seem to think I should, I would get fired. Even the construction hands would be sent back to the hall if they refused to set up a truck and put on their hooks instead. The fact is nobody, trouble shooter or construction hand, spends more time in his hooks than in the bucket.

Slim the Lineman is a work of fiction about days long past.....It's been almost 80 years since he built any line.

[MI-Lineman]

The big problem with the folks using an impact gun is they way over torque the aluminum one bolts. The person that has to remove them and only has a bug wrench will be developing carpel tunnel from others not understanding the proper torque.

Amen!:cool:

[lewy]

Lewy, Lewy, Lewy, you of all people should know that if something goes wrong you will suffer the consequence and your immediate supervisors ass could be in a sling.
Seen it happen and it ain't pretty.
The Old Lineman

I do know the consequences & I am not suggesting anyone cheat. I also know first hand that when climbing some poles with big buts you can not use the cross strap until you get climb up a bit, your body is too close to the pole, but we will put the cross strap on once we can. We did have some guys who refused to climb because of this, they wanted the longer pole straps. Once you are above obstacles & can not fall more than I think 6' you do not need the cross strap. We do not climb above live primary. The only reason I mentioned cheating & perhaps it was a poor choice of words was if Boomer was looking for a device that he could use for fall restraint, but was not bound by the rules of fall restraint because if you do not have fall restraint rules you can use the pole choker like a normal line belt.

[MI-Lineman]

I do know the consequences & I am not suggesting anyone cheat. I also know first hand that when climbing some poles with big buts you can not use the cross strap until you get climb up a bit, your body is too close to the pole, but we will put the cross strap on once we can. We did have some guys who refused to climb because of this, they wanted the longer pole straps. Once you are above obstacles & can not fall more than I think 6' you do not need the cross strap. We do not climb above live primary. The only reason I mentioned cheating & perhaps it was a poor choice of words was if Boomer was looking for a device that he could use for fall restraint, but was not bound by the rules of fall restraint because if you do not have fall restraint rules you can use the pole choker like a normal line belt.

Ah! Makes sense? So you guys don't need the thing for the first 6' above an obstacle basically? Do the obstacles have to be "bolted" attachments and not "lagged?" Ours for our apps have to be bolted and not more than 4'!

[wtdoor67]

Lordy. Let's see that would be one for each pole top rescue for 3 years, that would leave only 2 poles climbed on the job for 3 years maybe?

Geez, my conscious would be bothering me. Hell even in my later years I tried to climb at least 1 a week.

You know I worked on a hi-line crew for a utility once. Construction. Mostly clum somes and a pretty large gang. About 30 or so people including operators, groundmen etc. I believe there were only about 3 bonafide Journeymen amongst us. One day for some rare reason there was some errand that required the abilities of a Journeyman. A call on the radio summoned him and he came over. When he was informed of this task he began to look for his belt and hooks. It took a little bit for him to round up his belt and then the search began for his hooks. After a lengthy time of jerking open bin doors and rummaging thru material, his old Brooks hooks were finally located. It was classically funny as they did not look as if they had seen the light of day in quite some time and that old cliche about knocking the rust off them came true. Very funny memory.

Hell when I worked for PSO I was in a bucket one day. Terminating some primary I think. All of a sudden here came my foreman up the pole. I said. What are you doing? He replied. This is the first pole I've climbed in more than 2 years. I said. You're shitting me. He replied. Nope, it's true.

I worked with an old boy once. If you busted out and tooled up and went up a pole he would gladly grunt for you. After a bit of this I realized what kind of hand he was. I then would do a pole and just wait for him on the next. He soon realized I was only gonna climb my share. He didn't much like to climb.

[old lineman]

Ah! Makes sense? So you guys don't need the thing for the first 6' above an obstacle basically? Do the obstacles have to be "bolted" attachments and not "lagged?" Ours for our apps have to be bolted and not more than 4'!

Before this goes any further here is the correct dimensions.
Once a lineman passed over an obstacle (an attachment we were permitted to climb without a cross strap if the the space above the obstacle never exceeded 4'. That's the old standard, probably around 1990.
Then the fall protection experts and CSA investigated the dynamic forces in a 4' fall and it was evident that it exceeded worldwide standards (900 lbs. of dynamic force). That's the standard for shock absorbers in lanyards.
Now the CSA standard is 2' which reduces the force and eliminates the option of not using fall protection.
These are worldwide criteria not just Canada's or USA.
The Old Lineman

[MI-Lineman]

Before this goes any further here is the correct dimensions.
Once a lineman passed over an obstacle (an attachment we were permitted to climb without a cross strap if the the space above the obstacle never exceeded 4'. That's the old standard, probably around 1990.
Then the fall protection experts and CSA investigated the dynamic forces in a 4' fall and it was evident that it exceeded worldwide standards (900 lbs. of dynamic force). That's the standard for shock absorbers in lanyards.
Now the CSA standard is 2' which reduces the force and eliminates the option of not using fall protection.
These are worldwide criteria not just Canada's or USA.
The Old Lineman

Well somebody better tell our illustrious "training center!":rolleyes: They say it's still 4'? Wouldn't surprise me!:o

[lewy]

Interesting regarding the 2'. I could not find anything with regard to pole climbing, but did find some stuff that dealt with lanyards. I found it hard trying to search through all of the information, could you provide me with the information that says 2'? Even at 2' though with the exception of the clearance on a bare pole between the bottom phase & neutral at 10.6' the most we have between hardware is 6' so my belt would be 3' at the most above any hardware.
MI we are predominately an armless utility, but when we do use arms most times the brace arms are lagged, other than that we use mostly 3/4'' bolts

[wtdoor67]

Lineman: "Forgive me Father I have sinned".

Padre: "And what is the nature of your sin?" "Have you been drinking and running with loose women?"

Lineman: "No father, I have only climbed 3 poles this last 6 months and I only
did that with the assistance of the Bucksqueeze."

Padre: "Say three Hail Marys and read 5 chapters of the Linemans and Cablemans Handbook."

Lineman: "Thank you father, I will try to climb at least 8 poles this year."

Padre: "Go your way my son and do this sin no more for it is an abomination in
the sight of the GF."

[wtdoor67]

I know plenty of people on here have stories similar to that but they won't tell em. I have just about exhausted mine.

We went up a joint pole one time. I think just went up to remove an old pot. Anyway I climbed to the underbuild and safetied off. A large pole butt of course. I watched thru my legs as this clum sum came up. He got about 15 feet, cutout and fell all the way to the ground. It really didn't hurt him, but he walked to the truck, removed his tools and we could never talk him into climbing another pole.

The first thing you do after burning a pole is look around to see if anyone saw you fall. Ha.

I've burned several, but only telephone poles. Those short poles, you just didn't have much respect I guess. Did take a small fall once. It was a 3 phase line with a shielded static/neutral on top. The line was dead and grounded of course and we were going up and undinging the neutral and kicking it off in order to set some steel poles up thru it. Putting in some 138 KV. I undinged the neutral and laid it on top of the pole and took my eye off it and shifted my position around. Didn't keep hold of the neut during this period and it fell off on my shoulder (fair downpull) and caused me to fall to the arm. Had on a short sleeve shirt. Not good. Got a few splinters out of that one. Did crack a rib once laying down on the end of 345 arms in order to ding the bells and travelers. Just poor positioning I think.

We had a guy once who suffered an embarrassing injury. He was clipping some 138. Working on the static in order to lift it some of the guys would stand astraddle the outside knee braces, put their safety over the top of the pole, over the static bar and underneath the static. Then you could position yourself just right, and lift the static with your safety, letting your legs do the work. Batts knows. Anyway the static got away from him and rolled down the brace and somehow pinched his male member, causing some bruising. He refused to display it to us.

When we slid handlines we didn't do it in the extreme reckless manner Batts described. We snapped it around the phase, dropped the sheave to the groundman and had him hold the line at a good angle and then wrapped our legs around it and slid it. This was days end usually.

Okay Batts, explain how a guy fell off a set of 95's and hit the X braces at 100'? Do I have to get Swimpo to straighten you out?

[Highplains Drifter]

Guys, your getting so http://bestsmileys.com/signs1/15.gif with Boomer's thread........:rolleyes:

[wtdoor67]

I mentioned the Bucksqueeze. In one post anyway.

These threads just kinda go awry sometimes. Deal with it.

[Boomer gone soft]

Guys, your getting so http://bestsmileys.com/signs1/15.gif with Boomer's thread........:rolleyes:

HD,

That's long-gone.....I'm pretty much over it. I got the information I was looking for.

One thing kind of puzzles me; and I'm being serious and not trying to bust anybody's balls.....

I just don't get how guys can downplay falling themselves or watching a brother fall 95 feet and ridicule a guy that doesn't have the opportunity to climb because he wants fall protection.....then at the same time believe they are truly, in their heart of hearts, committed to safety.

Like I said, not trying to bust rocks, just wonder if anybody thinks about some of the inconsistancies....I can't climb more than a few poles a year with my present job (some would say I never could climb....whatever) and yet guys who beat their chest about climbing downplay and romanticize falling themselves or watching buddies get hurt.

I'm just saying.

In the end, we are all brothers (by trade if not by union) and what each of us contributes is honorable.

[wtdoor67]

I just don't get how guys can downplay falling themselves or watching a brother fall 95 feet and ridicule a guy that doesn't have the opportunity to climb because he wants fall protection.....then at the same time believe they are truly, in their heart of hearts, committed to safety.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's psychological. Everyone has a small fear or reflex about falling. You just want to control your own and if you give too much sympathy to a fallee, you will give in to your own fears.

I've known about 3 or so folks who were lineman, or at least apprentices who froze on a pole. Foreman to newbie. "Use both hands." Newbie. "Hell I gotta work with one."

I knew a guy once on a hi line crew who had given it up. He froze on a pole and so became an equipment operator. Large, athletic guy and intelligent. One day we were clipping. He said. Let me do one. He still had his tools, put them on and clipped an H fixture alone. We watched and he did a quick and creditable job. Got through and never did it again to my knowledge. Stayed with the co. and became a supervisor eventually.

Not that it effects all people but it does some. It's one of the few things that give a lineman a feeling of exclusivity and to see it made possible for everyone is really a little bit of a bummer.

I have worked with a known a few that could work well from a bucket but were quite shaky on wood, especially tall wood. Put a guy on a bare 90 and you might see some white knuckles.

The guy Batts spoke of had the right mentality. Get back on the horse. You can't give in to your fears and most don't. Gotta agree with Swimpo here. Kinda sad. Glad I'm gone.

I remember on a storm once. A nasty pole had to be climbed. Covered with ice and snow. There were 3 foremen present, about 4 or 5 lineman. I was the oldest person there. I tooled up and a serviceman who was there said. Who's gonna help you? I replied. No one I guess. He swore and went and got his tools and we worked the pole. Nah, it ain't the same anymore. Buncha non climbers anymore. Can you get a bucket to it?

[Highplains Drifter]

Your very right and we all seen the non climbing lineman. I worked with one hand that would spend hours to get the truck to the pole. One that we couldn't he comes up to me and asks if I had my hooks,I told him yes that they where always with me, but I told him I clum that last one and it was his turn.....well he did make it up the pole and an easy walker (cedar)......So it was time for the new service and I can place that grape vine so it is only two foot from the pole at make up time....I thought why not have some fun so I placed it about seven foot,so he would have a good reach......I was biting my lip as I'd hear him moaning to reach out.:rolleyes:....it is really sad :( seeing the attitude of our trade going down the chutes and I am still holding on to try and get my last few years completed to retirement. When I topped out there was nothing that a Journeyman Lineman could not do, and we did our tasks with pride and the only praise we got was that pay day was on time, and that was all we needed. We had a job and we got it done, but today all one hears is the reasons why it takes so long....:mad:

[robob24]

The guys that trained me always said" a 1 handed lineman ain't worth a F"
If they caught ya hangin on with 1 hand they would wack it with a stick or hook one of the tool loops on your belt and swing from it! It only took most of us one really smashed finger to stop.:D

[robob24]

Ha Ha Ha, I forgot about that one! Everyone has experienced that at least once. Goes something like " What the hell am I hung, Oh you MFer"

[Boomer gone soft]

Thanks guys.

I don't always agree with all of you and some of you sure as hell piss me off, but I do appreciate each of you.

[barehander]

First off all, there's a difference between "Fall Arrest" & "Fall Restraint" and every company interprets it differently. Here's what OSHA says...

Positioning Devices: Construction Work
The only time a body belt may be used where there may be a fall is when an employee is using a "positioning device." In §1926.500 of the construction standards for fall protection, a "positioning device system" is defined as a body belt or body harness system rigged to allow an employee to be supported on an elevated vertical surface, such as a wall (or a pole), and work with both hands free while leaning. Therefore, in construction work, a positioning device may be used only to protect a worker on a vertical work surface. These devices may permit a fall of up to 2 feet (0.6 m). They may be used in concrete form work, installation of reinforcing steel, and certain telecommunications work. Since construction workers in bucket trucks, scissor lifts and boom-type elevating work platforms are on a horizontal surface, a positioning device may not be used for those workers.

Fall Arrest Systems Used in Construction Work
A device that permits an arrested fall is considered a fall arrest system. In construction work a body harness must be used in these systems. A fall arrest system can only be used where the aerial lift or scaffold is designed to withstand the vertical and lateral loads caused by an arrested fall. Fall arrest systems used in construction must comply with §1926.502(d). That provision prohibits the use of a body belt in a fall arrest system, and instead requires the use of a body harness.

It's that "2 foot fall rule" on posistioning devices that companies disagree on.
My company uses 2 safeties, so you are never unattached from the pole. In tower work, fall arrest is in play, so a harness must be worn with a lanyard, but you also have a bodybelt. The rules state "that if you have your positioning strap attached, and your weight is into the strap, you do not have to attach your lanyard. Before you lean forward and the strap is slack, the lanyard must be attached to the structure."

When companies call it "Fall Arrest" OSHA is very clear on that point.
Just my opinion...................
Here's all the links you'll ever want to try and understand..

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=12759


http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10758

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24110

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24360

[Tuski]

i'm currently in climbing school, we initially learned to free climb only to 5 ft up, transitioned to the bucksqueeze. and at first i didn't like it. but after reaching the top, and "slipping" during a speed exercise i'm glad were required to use it.

[Highplains Drifter]

And in my day, guys that did that got out because it scared them of something they didn't belong in.....this trade is not for the weak!

[wtdoor67]

"I taught I taw a Buckysqueeze a tipping up on me."

"I did, I did, I did tee a Buckysqueeze."

"Heps me, heps me. I need my Bucky."

"Waah, waah, I want my Bucky."

[BookII]

38......and here is what a 42 year old did on 1/08/2011...... and explain how a buck squeeze would work here......these folks aren't going to put up with them and will hang up their hooks if it becomes mandatory.....




2912

You can still use the bucksqueeze, and still do your work. And this is where I would of had a board or a ladder. Just sayin'....

And further more, I'm not a fan of the bucksqueeze. But then I can't afford to start my own company either. So until then, I'll keep collecting the pay checks and play by the rules.

[Highplains Drifter]

You can still use the bucksqueeze, and still do your work. And this is where I would of had a board or a ladder. Just sayin'....

And further more, I'm not a fan of the bucksqueeze. But then I can't afford to start my own company either. So until then, I'll keep collecting the pay checks and play by the rules.


That was a hard dead end, let to the ground to squeeze and in the photo the jumper is being made up. All in 45 minutes from ground to ground. Put your board up and be the first for a lay off.

[BookII]

That was a hard dead end, let to the ground to squeeze and in the photo the jumper is being made up. All in 45 minutes from ground to ground. Put your board up and be the first for a lay off.

So you're telling me that if a board had been available, the employee would have been laid off by the union contractor for working smarter??? :eek:

[pre_apprentice_ID]

Looks like a fun way down the pole! Glad ya got a picture of it.

[brs]

We just started using the Bucksqueeze about 2yrs ago ! It's hard to climb a pole with a meter Stack on it ! And Crossing stuff like phone lines cable lines etc sucks ! It just takes time to get use to just like everything else I guess ! I like free climbing myself but we Have to use it ! I'm getting better at it but I still don't care much for it

[Tuski]

We just started using the Bucksqueeze about 2yrs ago ! It's hard to climb a pole with a meter Stack on it ! And Crossing stuff like phone lines cable lines etc sucks ! It just takes time to get use to just like everything else I guess ! I like free climbing myself but we Have to use it ! I'm getting better at it but I still don't care much for it

Yeah that's how I figure it, the guys who learned to free climb, hate the Bucksqueeze, or other fall protection, but us new guys started off with it, so we don't mind it.

[Boomer gone soft]

Do you guys that are using the Bucksqueeze put the paddle on the left or right?

I'm right-handed and have tried both ways, but I can't decide which I like better. I think I have settled on keeping the rope-adjuster for crossing obstacles on the left.

[Boomer gone soft]

using it every day ;) and let me tell you. it will keep you from falling, but is that the issue? what happens when you are holding 2 hotsticks and cant move arround the pole without 2 hands? that to me seems to be a bigger issue than falling?

Mommer,

I have been tinkering with this thing for a while now. You are right that you cannot circle the pole with no hands. But you are wrong that you need two hands. I have found I can circle with one hand by pulling the Bucksqueeze around the direction I want it to move with the opposite hand....If I want it to move around to the right, I grab the left side and slide it around.

With that said, I still stand by what I said earlier. The Bucksqueeze affords 180 degree of movement without moving it at all. If I find myself in a situation where I need to move more than that with no hands, I will know it is time to call for another hand.:D

[Highplains Drifter]

Looks like a fun way down the pole! Glad ya got a picture of it.



I like the photo's you have uploaded into this Forums Photo Galler (http://powerlineman.com/pictures/)y, keep it up!!! http://www.irv2.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[pre_apprentice_ID]

Thank you highplains, I will keep em comin.

[Boomer gone soft]

Just got a phone call from my supervisor. Effective March 30, Alliant Energy will require fall protection for all employees while climbing wood poles.

The days of the skid are numbered.....

[LAMartin.CVEC]

There are many threads here on PL.com about the Buck-squeeze and other fall restricting devices--many of which contain decent information about form and factor--many more of which contain hatred and nonsense.
Here at CVEC these devices are still not required for Journeymen; He is still allowed to climb how he see's fit to approach the job, however all apprentices (for at least 2 years or so now) and new hires (not sure if this effects new hires that were Journeymen in their last company) are required to have fall restriction as part of their climbing tools.
While many of our apprentices have started in the Buck-squeeze we have one in my crew that has taken a liking to the "Pole Lariat" by Bashlin. I personally am not a fan of any of these devices and feel bad for the young men that have to go through their apprenticeships "chained to the stick", but I have also seen many of them take to it rather well.
This poses 2 questions: is it hard for us that have learned a certain way (and in my opinion the RIGHT way!) to simply learn new tricks; or are we getting away for the fundamentals that define our trade?

I personally struggle with this often, late at night on a trouble call and it turns out I have a bad K-mate (current limiting fuse) in the bushing of a 15kva. I can clear it my self my dropping the lateral with the extendo, pulling the meter, tooling and rubbering up, hitting the stick and changing it out.
It is legal here at CVEC to my knowledge to climb solo, however as it has been said "just because you can doesn't mean you should".

So should I use a device such as this at such a time?

I have not.

Do I have a device such as this to use?

Yes.


I take pride in my job--my ability--and I enjoy it to the core, but the world IS changing gentlemen... whether we like it or not.

I will free climb as long as my company will allow me to and I will enjoy it.

I've ranted enough, there are many devices offered today: the Buck-squeeze--the Klein Pole Master--The Jelco-- The Pole Shark--The Stop Fall--The Pole Lariat (my favorite and will probably be my choice if fall restriction is ever required here at CVEC)--The Cynch-Lock (for those of you that hitchhike check it out looks really good)-- and new ones are cropping up all the time.

I wish more company's would take the stand that CVEC is taking; If you want fall restriction: Pick your poison. After all when it comes to climbing--One size DOES NOT FIT ALL!

As for you all that are restricted to just one brand I urge you to be more aggressive with you safety departments/committees to allow you to choose.

Again I'm sorry for the rant but I feel very strongly about this subject as that I have several pole buddies that have no choice in the matter and the few that can still climb the way we have been since the dawn of our trade, well they are getting fewer and fewer...

Work Safely,

L.A. Martin
Journeyman CVEC
Div III

[e30kawi]

I didn't read every post on here about the bucksqueeze as there was a lot of bickering.

My company doesn't require the use of it and I have only used it once. I can say that I didn't enjoy it in the slightest.

My background is just over 3 years in distribution. Company policy is to use a safety while climbing and requires the use of a "secondary safety" while belting over around obstacles.

I am a wannabe so to speak and I would really hate to see the buck squeeze become mandatory, as many people have said, it allows otherwise incapable or unqualified individuals to be up where they shouldn't be, putting themselves at risk. I haven't used the bucksqueeze in a real world application with telephone, service drops, step bolts, etc, but it seems impractical and difficult to use in these situations.

I learned to hitch hike and also free climb, I like to free climb up to the neutral, belt off and then do my work, and hitch hike down.

My question is, my company policy is to where rubble gloves and sleeve lock to lock, how easy is the bucksqueeze to use and adjust with class 3 gloves?

[Highplains Drifter]

I didn't read every post on here about the bucksqueeze as there was a lot of bickering.

My company doesn't require the use of it and I have only used it once. I can say that I didn't enjoy it in the slightest.

My background is just over 3 years in distribution. Company policy is to use a safety while climbing and requires the use of a "secondary safety" while belting over around obstacles.

I am a wannabe so to speak and I would really hate to see the buck squeeze become mandatory, as many people have said, it allows otherwise incapable or unqualified individuals to be up where they shouldn't be, putting themselves at risk. I haven't used the bucksqueeze in a real world application with telephone, service drops, step bolts, etc, but it seems impractical and difficult to use in these situations.

I learned to hitch hike and also free climb, I like to free climb up to the neutral, belt off and then do my work, and hitch hike down.

My question is, my company policy is to where rubble gloves and sleeve lock to lock, how easy is the bucksqueeze to use and adjust with class 3 gloves?

Great first post!!!! And a great question, I'll let the experts that have a ground to ground rubber glove rule answer you that. I won't work for an outfit that has stupid rules.

[e30kawi]

an outfit that has stupid rules.

Our outfit has that. All kinds of safety rules that get ridiculous. Like face shields while working primary and writing people up for not putting out traffic cones in the middle of pasture. I know our company policy is to use a safety strap etc, but I get screamed at and catch flack for using it. But I don't let it bother me, I am the go to climber on our crew/crews.
I read in another thread on here about the bucksqueeze during an Ice Storm in oklahoma at the end of 2007 and all the contractor crews they brought in wouldn't climb. Well that wasnt the crew I was on. 2nd day on the job I was up the wood. I work for a non union contractor so we are out trying to bust ass trying to prove our worth to stay and get peoples power back on.

[Boomer gone soft]

[QUOTE=e30kawi;94423...I am a wannabe so to speak and I would really hate to see the buck squeeze become mandatory, as many people have said, it allows otherwise incapable or unqualified individuals to be up where they shouldn't be, putting themselves at risk....[/QUOTE]

That's an interesting sentiment I've heard touted about on this site for a long time. I've worked with more than a few hands that could climb far better than than most, but weren't worth a squirt of piss once they got up there. I would rather work with a below average climber who has his head about him. You can teach somebody to climb; there is no cure for stupid.

My point is simply climbing alone does not make or break a good lineman. Especially in a day and age when the need to climb is getting more and more rare.

One may be able to climb like a monkey, but one has to do more than throw poop from atop the pole to be a lineman.;)

[LAMartin.CVEC]

Good to see ya back Mr. Martin.

The World and OUR Line world...is changing. And yes sir. In my opinion, with 4 kids at home....climbin "solo", at night...yeah...use the fall restraint, even if ya don't "Have to".
35 is too young to....well,...just personal opinion.

When I was your age...no, I wouldn't have used it. Course...It wasen't even a concept back then. For you, it's a "choice". You know when the Choice is Necessary. Night, by yourself....just might be a thought.

Mr. Swamprat,

The only way I can respond to that sir is simply by saying what an old lineman ones told me: "you climb the way you climb--I'll climb the way I'll climb!"

Mr. Boomer gone soft,

"My point is simply climbing alone does not make or break a good lineman. Especially in a day and age when the need to climb is getting more and more rare.
"One may be able to climb like a monkey, but one has to do more than throw poop from atop the pole to be a lineman."

The latter part of this I can say I agree wholeheartedly however, the former I have issues with: we do NOT live in a day and age when the NEED to climb is getting more and more rare.
We in fact live in an age where climbing in and of its self is rare. The need is always there, always apparent, and always possible. The problem(in my opinion) is that there is less training in climbing, less motivation in the young work force (when you can find young men that want to do this), and less over all "gumption"--if you will--to actually climb.

"After all why should we walk two spans to hook a pole an do in twenty minutes, what could take us all day to do winching in trucks and tearing up property?"

I am not dissenting your view merely offering mine, as I said earlier in this post to Mr. Swamprat:

"You climb the way you climb, I'll Climb the way I climb!"

work safely,

LA Martin
Journeyman CVEC
Div III

[LAMartin.CVEC]

Thanks for your nice, civil post Mr. Martin. Like I said, good to see ya back man.

I've got a daughter...couple years shy of your age. Tougher than a pine knot.:D

Me and her Mom, use to, tell her shit, as parents do....from our experience...and bustin OUR ass's....to maby "try" to help her from Bustin HER ass.

As, "gettin older" has taught both of us....That shit just falls on deaf ears.:rolleyes:

And, we both, remember back, to when our parents told us similar "stuff".:D "Dust in the wind".
Think WE listened to any of that shit either? NOT.

Ya got to "Feel it yourself"...to "Believe". And, if ya make it...as my daughter has told me a couple of times...
"Damn Dad, I Remember you tellin me not to do that." Luckly...it didn't kill her.

"You climb the way you climb, I'll Climb the way I climb.":cool:

Interesting that my daughter, has "sorta" started listening to us...the Older she gets.

4 kids man...
Work safe.


Work safe.[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

It is because of my wife and 4 kids that I do so. I do "feel it" for my self every day: my back is shot, knees have been worked on, and turns out I have to have surgery on my right elbow 2 weeks from now--the only thing I complain about is that it takes me away from what I love,powerlinework--such is life in this trade.
"You get out of it what you put into it." Mr. Williamson told me that once(some of you on the board know him). I find that to be fair; give it Hell and you receive the same, do nothing and be the same.

There are days coming Mr. Swamprat when we will all be chained to the stick and probable more than most will act as the monkey Mr. Boomer Gone Soft aforementioned

But today is not that day!

work safely,

L.A. Martin
Journeyman CVEC
Div III

[Boomer gone soft]

I have to concur with Swamp....

It is quite refreshing to have a civil discourse.:)

[mommer]

The fact is nobody, trouble shooter or construction hand, spends more time in his hooks than in the bucket.

Slim the Lineman is a work of fiction about days long past.....It's been almost 80 years since he built any line.


i beg to differ.. just depends on the kind of jobs you are looking for.. there are plenty of jobs, way out in the woods/ mountains/ jungles that there is absolutely no way you can get a truck to! i have been in my tools much more than buckets. mainly cuz that is what im looking for, and when i hear about em, I GO!

p.s. there are way too many lineman that will take the jobs and just bitch up a storm about how much they have to climb? so you guys are right about the whiney lineman of today, but just to say, us climbers still exist :D

[e30kawi]

That's an interesting sentiment I've heard touted about on this site for a long time. I've worked with more than a few hands that could climb far better than than most, but weren't worth a squirt of piss once they got up there. I would rather work with a below average climber who has his head about him. You can teach somebody to climb; there is no cure for stupid.

My point is simply climbing alone does not make or break a good lineman. Especially in a day and age when the need to climb is getting more and more rare.

One may be able to climb like a monkey, but one has to do more than throw poop from atop the pole to be a lineman.;)

I can agree with that and see the logic for people that learned to climb at school. I just (personally) haven't seen a person that can climb thrown up a pole that wouldn't know what the job was before hand. From what I have seen the most experienced people go up the wood, if they are climbers, that includes general foremen and formen over an inexperienced apprentice that can climb.

[hotwiretamer]

We have mandated the use of fall restraint while climbing this year. I have been free climbing for 26 years. The problem I am having is not the fall restraint. It is the Damn double safety that goes with it! I'll probably be the guy that unclips the wrong safety and lays back! We did talk the Co. into a
4' rule which allows us to use a Jelco as a normal skid as long as there is CTV, neutral, x-arm, etc. a maximum of 4' below.

[Highplains Drifter]

So what I want to know is some times when replacing an existing pole we try to keep the tops of the old and new in line so we do not have to splice wire or sometimes the butts are set right next to each other so we can transfer a riser. On these sets the poles are so close together there is no way you could slide a buck squeeze up or down either pole. So if you do not know how to free climb how is one going to get to the top of either one of the poles?
　
This is not showing off but just a normal climbing skill, some times one steps from one pole to the other to compete a job. With a buck squeeze how is that skill of stepping from one pole to the other going to work? I don’t want to hear that with a buck squeeze one will have to climb down to the ground and then climb back up the other.:mad:

[lewy]

So what I want to know is some times when replacing an existing pole we try to keep the tops of the old and new in line so we do not have to splice wire or sometimes the butts are set right next to each other so we can transfer a riser. On these sets the poles are so close together there is no way you could slide a buck squeeze up or down either pole. So if you do not know how to free climb how is one going to get to the top of either one of the poles?
　
This is not showing off but just a normal climbing skill, some times one steps from one pole to the other to compete a job. With a buck squeeze how is that skill of stepping from one pole to the other going to work? I don’t want to hear that with a buck squeeze one will have to climb down to the ground and then climb back up the other.:mad:

If they are so close how did you get the winch off? I have been in scenarios like you have said & I was able to transfer from 1 pole to the other without any trouble or going down.

[Boomer gone soft]

We have mandated the use of fall restraint while climbing this year. I have been free climbing for 26 years. The problem I am having is not the fall restraint. It is the Damn double safety that goes with it! I'll probably be the guy that unclips the wrong safety and lays back! We did talk the Co. into a
4' rule which allows us to use a Jelco as a normal skid as long as there is CTV, neutral, x-arm, etc. a maximum of 4' below.

It was for that reason, that Alliant Energy went with a 4-Dee climbing system. Existing 2-Dee belts can be retrofitted with a modified gut strap.

[I'llclimbit]

I dug out on a pole a number of years and I still carry the "visual aids" on my arms and chest.....

Alliant Energy has a policy that apprentices are required to use fall protection devices and journeymen have the option to opt-in.....but once a journeyman is issued and trained on one of these devices it becomes mandatory for him.

We have a yearly "safety day" where we do all of our training, fire extinguishers annual certification, hearing tests, hurt man training, etc. I suggested this year to let journeymen try the bucksqueeze without having to keep it for that day. I ended up trying it and I was impressed.

I personally feel much more secure on the pole. (The older I get the less necessary I feel much of the bravado is for me.)

Has anybody else transitioned to the bucksqueeze? What have been your perceptions, problems, etc now that they have been out for a good long while?

The fact is: it won't be long until ALL of us are mandated to use them.....We linemen just HATE losing the right to choose.

i hate not having a choice ! after all i have been climbing for 20 yrs now i'm not certified to free climb anymore .try to climb a pole in easment with 6 phone drops and 4 sevices and a riser with a bucksqueeze . we lose our jobs on the spot if caught climbing without it .I thought part or being a lineman was being a pro in your tools now all we train are bucket babies and kids that never get that feeling of a little fear of falling that kept me on the edge and on top of my game and now its just a job they took the fun out of it

[Boomer gone soft]

i hate not having a choice ! after all i have been climbing for 20 yrs now i'm not certified to free climb anymore .try to climb a pole in easment with 6 phone drops and 4 sevices and a riser with a bucksqueeze . we lose our jobs on the spot if caught climbing without it .I thought part or being a lineman was being a pro in your tools now all we train are bucket babies and kids that never get that feeling of a little fear of falling that kept me on the edge and on top of my game and now its just a job they took the fun out of it

There's not much fun being off work with a broken leg.

There's even less in being a paraplegic.

There's none in being dead.

[Highplains Drifter]

If they are so close how did you get the winch off?

Once the pole is in the ground, remove the setting chain. You don't need it on the pole to plumb it, you just using the truck boom.

[woodhooks]

There's not much fun being off work with a broken leg.

There's even less in being a paraplegic.

There's none in being dead.

Have you seen some one get hurt or killed from falling? There has to be a reason behind the defending of the buck squeeze. I'm just curious. Have you?

[duramaxdrvr01]

Because if you haven't personally eyewitnessed anyone hurt or killed from a fall, then it has never happened to anyone. Good point.

[Boomer gone soft]

Have you seen some one get hurt or killed from falling? There has to be a reason behind the defending of the buck squeeze. I'm just curious. Have you?

yes, and I have heard of many more.

One is too many.

[Boomer gone soft]

Look at his handle. boomer gone SOFT.:rolleyes: That should explain it all. And...he's only been in the trade 12 years....if that.

BTW, you do know he's sittin by the side of the road, in his trouble truck answerin ya on his company computer, right?
ON company time.:D

I have yet to be told I am flat out unqualified......some (I am talking about you-- I know how keen you are to nuance) are told that quite frequently.:p

Like I said, I can only assume your fixation with my age, experience, and current employment come from a place of deep shame for having allegedly been a lineman so long and having such trouble finding your ass with both of your hands.:rolleyes:

Did you notice in NONE on the many comments on your alleged wye/wye bank NOT ONE post says, "I believe Swamp built this"?
.....I didn't think so.

After all, sociopaths are delusional.

[Boomer gone soft]

So what I want to know is some times when replacing an existing pole we try to keep the tops of the old and new in line so we do not have to splice wire or sometimes the butts are set right next to each other so we can transfer a riser. On these sets the poles are so close together there is no way you could slide a buck squeeze up or down either pole. So if you do not know how to free climb how is one going to get to the top of either one of the poles?
　
This is not showing off but just a normal climbing skill, some times one steps from one pole to the other to compete a job. With a buck squeeze how is that skill of stepping from one pole to the other going to work? I don’t want to hear that with a buck squeeze one will have to climb down to the ground and then climb back up the other.:mad:

One most likely would have to climb back down....unless the secondary lanyard could be let out far enough to allow one to step across.

But let's really look at this.......

Let's assume it takes another 10 minutes to climb down and back up (a climber of any skill should be able to manage that time frame....I would say that 5 minutes would be more likely, but let's be liberal.)

Let's also assume one did this particular trick every day M-F for 10 years; also very liberal. (I would guess you have done this less that 10 times in the last year.)

That means you have done this 260 times and saved the company 2,600 minutes; or 43 hours; or just over week's work in 10 years.

That is HARDLY worth the risk of being laid up weeks with a broken leg or being made a paraplegic or having your wife and kids bury you.


Once the pole is in the ground, remove the setting chain. You don't need it on the pole to plumb it, you just using the truck boom.

The boom, especially with the pole grabbers, uses more space than the chain. I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm just saying. If it's that close, I would leave the chain on it, then just winch the chain free after the new pole is tamped into place. But again, I wouldn't say this is a common enough practice to justify discarding fall protection.

...Besides, why are you climbing a pole you can obviously get a truck to?

[lewy]

I have transferred from one pole to another without coming down using fall restraint, not a big deal because yes I agree coming down wold be a pain.

[Highplains Drifter]

One most likely would have to climb back down....unless the secondary lanyard could be let out far enough to allow one to step across.

But let's really look at this.......

Let's assume it takes another 10 minutes to climb down and back up (a climber of any skill should be able to manage that time frame....I would say that 5 minutes would be more likely, but let's be liberal.)

Let's also assume one did this particular trick every day M-F for 10 years; also very liberal. (I would guess you have done this less that 10 times in the last year.)

That means you have done this 260 times and saved the company 2,600 minutes; or 43 hours; or just over 1 day's work in 10 years.

That is HARDLY worth the risk of being laid up weeks with a broken leg or being made a paraplegic or having your wife and kids bury you.



The boom, especially with the pole grabbers, uses more space than the chain. I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm just saying. If it's that close, I would leave the chain on it, then just winch the chain free after the new pole is tamped into place. But again, I wouldn't say this is a common enough practice to justify discarding fall protection.

...Besides, why are you climbing a pole you can obviously get a truck to?

One Way Boomer, you don't need grabbers to plumb a pole. I see you are used to lots of folks standing around on the ground. As soon as the hot work is over it is quicker to put a man on the pole. You don't need one to stand in the bucket and watch the other man work.

[Boomer gone soft]

One Way Boomer, you don't need grabbers to plumb a pole. I see you are used to lots of folks standing around on the ground. As soon as the hot work is over it is quicker to put a man on the pole. You don't need one to stand in the bucket and watch the other man work.

You might notice I didn't say grabbers were necessary you sanctimonious shit.:rolleyes:

I did point out saving minutes is STUPID in sacrifice of SAFETY.

[lewy]

Once the pole is in the ground, remove the setting chain. You don't need it on the pole to plumb it, you just using the truck boom.

I am not being a smart ass, but without something around the pole how do you make sure it is straight or am I missing something real obvious?

[wtdoor67]

sanctimonious shit.
-----------------------------------

Damn we getting fancy.

[Highplains Drifter]

You might notice I didn't say grabbers were necessary you sanctimonious shit.:rolleyes:

I did point out saving minutes is STUPID in sacrifice of SAFETY.


sanctimonious shit.
-----------------------------------

Damn we getting fancy.


I guess, it sure didn’t take you long to get the slow walk mentality. You see there are some of us that actually wore out our gaffs every two or three years and replaced them, because we used them and then there is you who will do your whole career with the same set of gaffs and never have to buy new ones.http://bestsmileys.com/kick/2.gif

[Boomer gone soft]

I guess, it sure didn’t take you long to get the slow walk mentality. You see there are some of us that actually wore out our gaffs every two or three years and replaced them, because we used them and then there is you who will do your whole career with the same set of gaffs and never have to buy new ones.http://bestsmileys.com/kick/2.gif

I'll never buy ANY tools again.....I work for the utility now, remember?:p

[Highplains Drifter]

I'll never buy ANY tools again.....I work for the utility now, remember?:p

Just don’t get to cocky and mess it up…http://bestsmileys.com/dead/2.gif, cause you could hang yourself.:eek:

[heelwinch]

One most likely would have to climb back down....unless the secondary lanyard could be let out far enough to allow one to step across.

But let's really look at this.......

Let's assume it takes another 10 minutes to climb down and back up (a climber of any skill should be able to manage that time frame....I would say that 5 minutes would be more likely, but let's be liberal.)

Let's also assume one did this particular trick every day M-F for 10 years; also very liberal. (I would guess you have done this less that 10 times in the last year.)

That means you have done this 260 times and saved the company 2,600 minutes; or 43 hours; or just over 1 day's work in 10 years.
That is HARDLY worth the risk of being laid up weeks with a broken leg or being made a paraplegic or having your wife and kids bury you.



The boom, especially with the pole grabbers, uses more space than the chain. I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm just saying. If it's that close, I would leave the chain on it, then just winch the chain free after the new pole is tamped into place. But again, I wouldn't say this is a common enough practice to justify discarding fall protection.

...Besides, why are you climbing a pole you can obviously get a truck to?

Your math was right, but your answer is wrong, it's actually 1WEEK, not one DAY... you "sanctimonious shit".

If you ever lose your troublemans job maybe you could write a book of " one liners for use as responces in a linemans forum".

[Boomer gone soft]

Your math was right, but your answer is wrong, it's actually 1WEEK, not one DAY... you "sanctimonious shit".

If you ever lose your troublemans job maybe you could write a book of " one liners for use as responces in a linemans forum".

touche.....;)

I went back and corrected my mistake. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. :)

[Boomer gone soft]

Yup.

That's why his punk ass, 12 year "lineman"...at 37 years old...is a "troubleman".... playin on his company computer, durin workin hours, cause he ain't got shit to do.: D

HIS hooks will last the rest of his Life!: D That's why he's so infatuated with the fu$ksqueeze. He can't climb for shit...never could...This is the greatest thing for him, sinced sliced bread.: D Now he can "Look" like a Real Lineman...IF he ever has to climb.
"boomer". :rolle yes: You ain't never been a "boomer" in your life....12 year old "lineman". Your gaffs, probably got rust on em. "Lineman" my ass....

Like I told ya years ago...kid..."you fell into a deep pile of "Roses" boy...you BETTER stay there as LONG as you can, cause you won't make it in the real world of Linework.


You should see a therapist to deal with all of that guilt and shame rather than projecting it onto others......you can't help knowing jack shit.....but you could stop being a poser.:p

You are definitely right about one thing: I have a very charmed life (especially compared to where I came from) and I consider myself very fortunate.:)

Here is where you are wrong: I am a very good lineman, and I beat out several other good linemen when I was awarded this job. I made it through my probation period because I didn't go around cutting the ties on wye/wye banks and wasting all of their copper on my belt. I am a journeyman lineman....something you are not now and have never been.....not by any recognized authority such as the IBEW.

You should get some professional help and properly process your emotions......maybe your government health insurance can help you.:rolleyes:

By the way, dipshit, I was a journeyman tree trimmer for 12 years as well.....I guarantee I have forgotten more about climbing and rigging than you ever knew.......including chainsaws:rolleyes: CHAINSAWS???? You are a "REAL" lineman and THAT was the best you've come up with to talk about????? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Highplains Drifter]

You should see a therapist to deal with all of that guilt and shame rather than projecting it onto others......you can't help knowing jack shit.....but you could stop being a poser.

You are definitely right about one thing: I have a very charmed life (especially compared to where I came from) and I consider myself very fortunate.

Here is where you are wrong: I am a very good lineman, and I beat out several other good linemen when I was awarded this job. I made it through my probation period because I didn't go around cutting the ties on wye/wye banks and wasting all of their copper on my belt. I am a journeyman lineman....something you are not now and have never been.....not by any recognized authority such as the IBEW.

You should get some professional help and properly process your emotions......maybe your government health insurance can help you.

By the way, dipshit, I was a journeyman tree trimmer for 12 years as well.....I guarantee I have forgotten more about climbing and rigging than you ever knew.......including chainsaws CHAINSAWS???? You are a "REAL" lineman and THAT was the best you've come up with to talk about????? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


I love you ex wood tick lineman, you always want to run the chain saw and that is fine with me to let you eat that saw dust…..hahahahaha:D

[Boomer gone soft]

This post right here c-lick...besides posting NOTHING on your OWN in any Line related thread, shows me...you ain't a Lineman... scada boy.

You're a slick MF'er...but...you ain't no Lineman.
You run your mouth about EVERYTHING...Except...Real Linework.

My shit talk, may be old school...the way I did things, and how times have changed. But....

YOU...talk NO "Linework"...what so Fu$kin Ever.

You're a fake c-lick. And..ya ain't a "Lineman" boy.
Talk to us boot your scada shit...or whatever the fu$k you do. Cause It AIN'T Linework.

Projecting your own insecurities and shame onto others again, I see.....:rolleyes:

[Boomer gone soft]

I've posted alot of "tricks" c-lick. And That was damn sure one. So What? You ain't posted fu$kin 1 post...relevant to LINEWORK...scada boy...cause..
You Ain't a Lineman.

I also wore a belt...my whole goddamn life in Linework, that had a Hammer loop, dead center, in the middle of the back. I don't even know when That BULLSHIT was "Outlawed"....or care.

It was OSHA Bullshit, that made the Industry completely RE-design the Linebelt, to put the Hammer loop, on the "side" of the belt. There is no "center" loop, in the back of a Linebelt no more. COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

And no, I don't "follow" the new inovations in Linework, like the fu$ksqueeze...cause, I'm "Retired".:D And...just feel sorry for the Linemen nowdays...that have to deal with that "politically correct" Shit that Linework has become.: (

And I would much rather screw with guys like you...who profess to be "Linemen"...but ain't.:D To "Make it Clear".:D

So....it's not just the bucksqueeze or fall arrest in general then???

You obviously have been on the wrong side of any innovation for the last 40 years......:rolleyes:

[amarkey09]

Hey Boomer I use the bucksqueeze and honestly I love using it. Where I am going to college at they require fall arrest starting this 2010/2011 school year. I have tried several different brands like Jelco, Klein, and then the Buckingham. Personally I cant stand the Klein, burned the pole about 10 feet didnt catch me, and it was a pain to use. The Bucksqueeze is very nice and easy to adjust the choker to the pole as you climb. anyways yeah if you ever needed to wear a fall arrest and had to choose I would recommend this how ever I am sad to see the days of free climbing are coming to their end as i do like to give it a shot now and then.:)

[Meat1]

I got to try out the pole lariat today and I like it a hell of alot more than the buck squeeze. It climbs really well. It's still not free climbing but it's about as close as I've seen so far. It probably wouldn't be the best choice for someone who hasn't free climbed since you can't hitchhike at all with it. It kicks a whole lot of ass compared to the buck strain. Now all we have to do is get our company to let us make the choice what fall restraint we use. The one thing to remember about the lariat is that it's not meant to be worked out of all it's supposed to do is keep you from hitting the ground. That's it. When you get where your going safety off and work like always.

[flashman]

There are applications for the buck squeeze I guess like training someone to climb a pole. It just about stops there since it's has everything to do with liability and nothing to do with safety. This thing kills your back and in congested areas is dangerous to use. A lineman, yes a lineman not a punkass who wants to be a boss someday knows agility on the pole is paramount to the work at hand. If you jerkmeats knew anything about egronomics which translates to comfort for you on the pole you wouldn't make statements like some of you do. When they become mandatory I think I get out of linework and go fishing like some of the others.

[twodogs73]

Not sure where to post this, but i have a question for all you. We had a bad ice storm in 07, we rebuilt our main feeders back with 336 acsr, since then when the wind blows at the line in a certain angle they go to whippin & bangin together. Our spans are 220 to 230 ft on 35 to 40ft poles. Crazy shit, you go for half mile and nothin then 4 to 6 spans are slappin around. Wire was pulled in a mile at a time give or take then sagged. I work in western Kansas and we get some pretty good wind here. All the line is east or west ,& north &south, winds mostly north and south. when the wind is nw or sw or se or ne is when we have the trouble. then if you add ice load ....... makes for lots of over time. We have some 4/0 on the system too and it dont at that way ....... pissin me off i cant get any answers. how bout some feedback, thanx.

[Meat1]

There are applications for the buck squeeze I guess like training someone to climb a pole. It just about stops there since it's has everything to do with liability and nothing to do with safety. This thing kills your back and in congested areas is dangerous to use. A lineman, yes a lineman not a punkass who wants to be a boss someday knows agility on the pole is paramount to the work at hand. If you jerkmeats knew anything about egronomics which translates to comfort for you on the pole you wouldn't make statements like some of you do. When they become mandatory I think I get out of linework and go fishing like some of the others.

Our company got way out in front on the fall restraint bandwagon, like three years out in front. They had a group of linemen go to our training school to " help decide" which belt we would use. Almost no one picked the bucksqueeze so that is what we ended up with. All we are trying to do now is get them to put some different belts on the approved list so we will have a choice even if we have to buy our own. I have worked out of the bucksqueeze more than alot of folks where I work and I've never gotten used to it. I think most of the grunts on here who like it have only used it in school, not in the real world. I'm sure there is someone out there who doesn't like the pole lariat but if I get a choice that's what I'm buying. That's my two cents for whatever it's worth.

[Meat1]

It really is a shame that we had to go to this 100 percent fall arrest. When I was an app you had to learn to climb and work out of your hooks, especially where I was. Everybody could climb and we enjoyed it. We had two different world champ rodeo teams from one of our headquarters in 10 years. We would race to get our hooks on and get up the pole and fight like hell to get your turn. Those days are long gone I guess. I was one of the last lineman at my co. To get to free climb. I missed the training the first time around:) I free climbed my last pole 1000 miles from home in Texas while everyone around me was fightin the buck strain and cussin the powers that be. One thing about the bucksqueeze that I guess you could call positive is that if you can fight through using it and still get the lights on you are a GDamn lineman!

[Daddyof2]

So much for, "Lineman Rescue"...:( That poor bastard...gonna die.:([/QUOTE]


If someone is in trouble up a pole I dont see a man taking the time to bucksqueeze his way to them. Any company that would discipline someone for doing so aint worth working for in the first place.

[Smitty57]

Our company is deciding what fall arrest device to use; we are evaluating products from four different manufacturers: Buckingham, Sala, Bashlin and Jelco and will pick two to stock. At least we have some choice on what we will use. A few days ago two representatives from Buckingham gave us a demonstration on their two existing models and their new "super top secret" model that's not available yet. After the demonstration I asked the guy about the two recalls on the bucksqueeze, I wanted to hear what the problem was directly from the rep., he loudly proclaimed that there has never been a recall on a bucksqueeze, the part that had the problem was not manufactured by Buckingham, therefore, no recall i guess. I didn't listen to much of what he said after that. Wow, what a great sales pitch! If a company subcontracts out a portion of their product / design and then includes it in their product, with their name stamped on the product, it's theirs=Buckingham’s. I still tried all three versions and I liked the newest "top secret" version the best. The thing that I don't like about the bucksqueeze is that you have to pull your upper body into the pole each time you slide the belt up; it's more fatiguing than free climbing. The rep from New York told me that I was doing it wrong; I should be lifting with my legs, not my arms, and that it's not more fatiguing. I tried, with all my might, but just could not seem to get the belt to slide up the pole with my legs. He must have some magical technique he learned by using the bucksqueeze for ten years. I'm not sure that I want to use their product, but, I am sure that I don't want to listen to that nitwit from New York anymore.

[ICE]

I believe the training should include free climbing for pole top rescue if and when needed. If we do not train for free climbing we will regret this later. we hope we never need pole top rescue but if you read this site every once in a while it is needed and does save lives.

[Boomer gone soft]

I just love all the tough talk about pole top rescue......

I would wager very few of you tough talkers take your gear out of the truck and have it ready EVERY TIME somebody is on the pole.

Maybe THAT'S why saving minutes is so compelling to you?:rolleyes:

[MI-Lineman]

I just love all the tough talk about pole top rescue......

I would wager very few of you tough talkers take your gear out of the truck and have it ready EVERY TIME somebody is on the pole.

Maybe THAT'S why saving minutes is so compelling to you?:rolleyes:

Come on man? Why is it we gotta respect your opinion about the damn thing and you not ours?

I'll say it again, in my opinion the bucksqueeze is not the answer! If ya need it that bad then maybe you should make a career change?

[duramaxdrvr01]

Ah yes, the old pole top rescue excuse. Boomer has a good point.
It seems to me the ones that may be needing to change careers are the ones who will refuse to wear fall protection. Just see what happens when you tell your company you refuse to use it when they mandate it.

[MI-Lineman]

Maybe someone who makes assumptions instead of knowin for sure what they're talkin about needs to take a step back for a moment and ponder their future? Course don't take to long especially durin a rescue!:eek: Assumptions get more Lineman killed or hurt every day than compared to climbin!

So anyways first, it's not "mandated" here. Second, I never said I would refuse to wear "fall protection" if mandated! I don't break safety rules! Third, the topic is the "bucksqueeze" not "fall arrest" in general! If you'd do a little research you'd see, although yes I do think "wood pole fall restraint" is chicken sh!t, that I understand it's gonna be common place and I have to accept it! The bucksqueeze (and most others) in my humble opinion:rolleyes:, however, is a pile of crap but if you're not willin to take the time to do a little research before jumpin on a band wagon then it's not worth the time for me to re-explain to you why I feel this way!

Maybe you could jump over to the inside stuff?;)

[MI-Lineman]

There IS NO answer. Companys are mandating it...for STRICTLY Insurance reasons. That's it. Done deal. Use it, or don't work here. As stupid as it is...it's the "New Linework" man.:mad: Just the way it is..."safety".:rolleyes:

Here's a question. Are Tree trimmers...required to wear the Fu$k Squeeze?or something..equvilant?:D I can just see THAT happenin. NOT.

The Fu$k Squeeze...is a joke.:( And a product...of what America has become. A Joke.

Here's another question.

What's the "rules" on "fall restraint" in Europe...or Canada? Or......any Linemen in Europe...what's you guys "Rules" on....Fall restraint??

Here they believe they are in "fall restraint" by always bein bucked in or tied in? Problem is not all trees have branches every dam 4' so they have to either "double buck" or throw a line up and tie in from the ground. So if they can get away with double buckin than why can't we? I could live with that better than the bucksqueeze!

[hotwiretamer]

Hey Boomer I use the bucksqueeze and honestly I love using it. Where I am going to college at they require fall arrest starting this 2010/2011 school year. I have tried several different brands like Jelco, Klein, and then the Buckingham. Personally I cant stand the Klein, burned the pole about 10 feet didnt catch me, and it was a pain to use. The Bucksqueeze is very nice and easy to adjust the choker to the pole as you climb. anyways yeah if you ever needed to wear a fall arrest and had to choose I would recommend this how ever I am sad to see the days of free climbing are coming to their end as i do like to give it a shot now and then.:)

I always laugh when I here somebody at a fall restraint demo saying "I don't want that one, I cut out and it didn't stop me". The vendor usually blames it on the guy for not having it "properly adjusted". I decided to choose my belt by which one was the simplest to use, not if it would "catch me".
Here is a little homework for you rook, climb about 10' up a pole put your fall arrest belt in your normal work position. Now, walk up in your belt as far as you can and then some. Make a mark on the pole at eye level. Now, walk down in your belt untill the fall restraint is actually holding you on the pole. Make another mark at eye level, and then measure between the marks. What did you get? 6,7,8'? That's how far you can fall using the Bucksqueeze (or any other fall restraint). Imagine gaffing out when you are stepped up in your belt and reaching as far up as you can (for whatever reason) and you cut-out. Do you think that safety strap is going to stay right there as you decend? I doubt it too! It's going to loosen up because your weight is no longer applying pressure to keep it synched to the pole. You may or may not be headed to the ground, but it isn't going to react much different than a normal safety when this is the case. The fall restraints are only going to restrain you in the normal work position (you know the position you are in when you are most comfortable and is probably almost impossible to cut-out from this position anyway). Keep this in mind when you are at climbing school. Push your instructors to put you on a Yo-Yo and let you learn to free climb. You develop a whole different reflex when free climbing and you gaff out! Trust me! These are reasons seasoned lineman despise the fall restraint rulings coming down. It's not really saving your ass as much as they want you to believe. In my opinion, it's vendor driven. It's a cash cow for all companies making fall restraints.
Let me know how your instructor feels about your suggestion. Good luck to ya!

[Boomer gone soft]

Come on man? Why is it we gotta respect your opinion about the damn thing and you not ours?

I'll say it again, in my opinion the bucksqueeze is not the answer! If ya need it that bad then maybe you should make a career change?

MI, you know I respect your opinion. That is not the issue.

I just find it humorous to pound the chest and say fall restraint is "going to cost time to get a man off the pole"; especially when those same people watch somebody climb with their own tools buried in the bin.

I find it equally humorous for men to say they don't like it because in a very small percentage of the time it may react similar to a skid; as if that completely negates the fact that it prevents falls in the vast majority of cut-outs in a reliable safe way to which a traditional skid can in no way shape or form compare.

[Boomer gone soft]

Here they believe they are in "fall restraint" by always bein bucked in or tied in? Problem is not all trees have branches every dam 4' so they have to either "double buck" or throw a line up and tie in from the ground. So if they can get away with double buckin than why can't we? I could live with that better than the bucksqueeze!

Continuous tie in and climbing without gaffs has been the industry's preferred method for 20 years.

Of course if you prefer free climbing, many tree companies still do that.....

Perhaps the ones embracing fall restraint shouldn't be the ones considering a career change (or swing in this case....pun intended).:p

[Boomer gone soft]

I always laugh when I here somebody at a fall restraint demo saying "I don't want that one, I cut out and it didn't stop me". The vendor usually blames it on the guy for not having it "properly adjusted". I decided to choose my belt by which one was the simplest to use, not if it would "catch me".


I always laugh when the ones who proclaim the only thing wrong with the skid is "knowing how to climb with it". (BTW, it's not the "climbing" that's the issue.....it's the "falling".)

I guess you have to have both "properly adjusted".:rolleyes:

But then again......it's very rare to see a "properly adjusted" skid prevent a fall. One doesn't have to peruse very deep into the archives of this very site to ascertain that.

[MI-Lineman]

MI, you know I respect your opinion. That is not the issue.

I just find it humorous to pound the chest and say fall restraint is "going to cost time to get a man off the pole"; especially when those same people watch somebody climb with their own tools buried in the bin.

I find it equally humorous for men to say they don't like it because in a very small percentage of the time it may react similar to a skid; as if that completely negates the fact that it prevents falls in the vast majority of cut-outs in a reliable safe way to which a traditional skid can in no way shape or form compare.

Well no matter what "skid" you use, shame on them for not bein ready and for the ones up the pole lettin them get away with it? I think we've all done it a time or two and got away with it but that needs to stop!

I just find it hard to understand how people with even a little time in this trade can all of a sudden find it acceptable to now proclaim climbing without a fall restraint is dangerous? I was told that before I committed to the job! Also, that I may get killed by the very sh!t we work on! Weren't you? I thought that's why we made "the big bucks?" If you didn't like it then you went else where for a job? I knew I might be hurt or killed long before my family came along and I know it now that I have one but that's a choice I made long ago and until I get my Aeronautical Engineering degree:rolleyes: it looks like it'll be line work feedin my family?

I'm no "chest pounder" just cause I prefer to do the job with out a squeeze? That's Line work! It's dangerous? It just seems once the door opened a lot of hands are jumpin on the band wagon even if the "restraint" sucks like they had a predisposed fear of climbin all a long? Not sayin you personally!

Give me somethin that allows me to work EXACTLY like I can with a buckstrap and I'll sign on! Until then I'll prefer the freedom of my fall restraint, ME! It ain't perfect but it's worked so far.

BTW, our co. is tryin out that "Cynch lock" contraption! Any one know if it's any better?

[Boomer gone soft]

Well no matter what "skid" you use, shame on them for not bein ready and for the ones up the pole lettin them get away with it? I think we've all done it a time or two and got away with it but that needs to stop!

I just find it hard to understand how people with even a little time in this trade can all of a sudden find it acceptable to now proclaim climbing without a fall restraint is dangerous? I was told that before I committed to the job! Also, that I may get killed by the very sh!t we work on! Weren't you? I thought that's why we made "the big bucks?" If you didn't like it then you went else where for a job? I knew I might be hurt or killed long before my family came along and I know it now that I have one but that's a choice I made long ago and until I get my Aeronautical Engineering degree:rolleyes: it looks like it'll be line work feedin my family?

I'm no "chest pounder" just cause I prefer to do the job with out a squeeze? That's Line work! It's dangerous? It just seems once the door opened a lot of hands are jumpin on the band wagon even if the "restraint" sucks like they had a predisposed fear of climbin all a long? Not sayin you personally!

Give me somethin that allows me to work EXACTLY like I can with a buckstrap and I'll sign on! Until then I'll prefer the freedom of my fall restraint, ME! It ain't perfect but it's worked so far.

BTW, our co. is tryin out that "Cynch lock" contraption! Any one know if it's any better?

Alliant now offers the Miller StopFall.....I traded in my bucksqueeze for this.

I think you'd like it.

http://www.millerfallprotection.com/pdfs/StopFall.pdf

[LAMartin.CVEC]

Mr. MI-Lineman,

We here at CVEC still allow the Journeyman to free climb, however it has been decided that Dec. 31st 2011 will be our last day to enjoy this part of what we do. As of Jan 1st 2012, fall restriction will be required by every here.

To that end we are allowing the lineman to "pick their poison". Many have tried the Cynch-Loc and greatly prefer it to the Bucksqueeze, it seems to be far more in line with traditional hitchhiking.

Personally, I will most likely be using the Bashlin pole lariat, I have a bit of brand loyalty, as that I even have Bashlin on the plates of my Dodge Dakota, but the reality is that it is the closest thing to free climbing that I have found on the market. I prefer the natural hand over hand motion of walking up and downthe wood vs. the hitchhiking method, however from what I have researched the Cynch-Loc is IMHO the best product on the market atm. I will still be using the pole lariat though unless I see something better.

The bottom line is simply this: once it happens where you work do everything you can to have your company allow the Lineman to choose what they feel is the best product for them to do their job. To many company's are taking a "one size fits all" approach pigeonholing their Lineman to one device.

Fall Restriction should be no different from belts and hooks, some men like the feel of Kliens, some prefer Buckingham, me? Bashlin BD14's are the best hooks ever made.

Pick your poison. It's the only way it should be done IMO.

Work Safely,

L. A. Martin
Journeyman Div III
CVEC

[MI-Lineman]

Mr. MI-Lineman,

We here at CVEC still allow the Journeyman to free climb, however it has been decided that Dec. 31st 2011 will be our last day to enjoy this part of what we do. As of Jan 1st 2012, fall restriction will be required by every here.

To that end we are allowing the lineman to "pick their poison". Many have tried the Cynch-Loc and greatly prefer it to the Bucksqueeze, it seems to be far more in line with traditional hitchhiking.

Personally, I will most likely be using the Bashlin pole lariat, I have a bit of brand loyalty, as that I even have Bashlin on the plates of my Dodge Dakota, but the reality is that it is the closest thing to free climbing that I have found on the market. I prefer the natural hand over hand motion of walking up and downthe wood vs. the hitchhiking method, however from what I have researched the Cynch-Loc is IMHO the best product on the market atm. I will still be using the pole lariat though unless I see something better.

The bottom line is simply this: once it happens where you work do everything you can to have your company allow the Lineman to choose what they feel is the best product for them to do their job. To many company's are taking a "one size fits all" approach pigeonholing their Lineman to one device.
Fall Restriction should be no different from belts and hooks, some men like the feel of Kliens, some prefer Buckingham, me? Bashlin BD14's are the best hooks ever made.

Pick your poison. It's the only way it should be done IMO.

Work Safely,

L. A. Martin
Journeyman Div III
CVEC

That's what will happen here!:( Our apps already have to have fall arrest and the co. decides which one? They went from the choker, to the buck, and now possibly the cynch? The lariat looks like it would be the most user friendly one but it and the miller didn't pass the desk jockeys expert analysis?:rolleyes:

I plan on tryin to get the co. to let us choose when it happens but I know they probably won't?:confused: Them edumacated folk sure is smarter than us hands!:rolleyes:

Thanx Martin! Hope all is goin well out there for ya!!

[hotwiretamer]

I always laugh when the ones who proclaim the only thing wrong with the skid is "knowing how to climb with it". (BTW, it's not the "climbing" that's the issue.....it's the "falling".)

I guess you have to have both "properly adjusted".:rolleyes:

But then again......it's very rare to see a "properly adjusted" skid prevent a fall. One doesn't have to peruse very deep into the archives of this very site to ascertain that.

Actually Boomer it isn't the skid that causes the fall, it's the foot work my friend! A properly adjusted skid in the proper working position will hold you all day long unless you forget where your gaffs are! I was just trying to say that you are still vulnerable to injury with the fall restraints. Stepping up in your belt, hitch hiking, and decending, the fall restraints are loose on the pole and are not fail safe no matter what the salesman tells you.

[Edge]

That's exactly right.
If ya only climb, "once in awhile", I can see where people need to use it.
But, if ya climb every day...backlot....cause that's all we contractors got, the shit the union boys wouldn't do...It's not necessary.

BUT...even my old Rat contractor has gone to that piece of shit.:mad:

It's an "Insurance" thing...plain and simple.:mad:

cause that's all we contractors got, the shit the union boys wouldn't do...

nice dig .... nice way to be a punk assed bitch.... so you think rats are the only contractors out there????
I spent 30 or so of my 40 ****ing years in this trade as a UNION contractor doing the shit you and your farm hands turned JL's by Pike had no ****ing clue how to do..... don't lay that shit down on this thread and expect to walk away...

We got paid more and had better beni's as you call them because we were usually done a 4 week job in 2...

and it was done safely...

take you CWRat Piking Mastec ass to another thread bub....

there's Journeymen talking here....

Bill

[Highplains Drifter]

That's exactly right.
If ya only climb, "once in awhile", I can see where people need to use it.
But, if ya climb every day...backlot....cause that's all we contractors got, the shit the union boys wouldn't do...It's not necessary.

BUT...even my old Rat contractor has gone to that piece of shit.:mad:

It's an "Insurance" thing...plain and simple.:mad:


cause that's all we contractors got, the shit the union boys wouldn't do...

nice dig .... nice way to be a punk assed bitch.... so you think rats are the only contractors out there????
I spent 30 or so of my 40 ****ing years in this trade as a UNION contractor doing the shit you and your farm hands turned JL's by Pike had no ****ing clue how to do..... don't lay that shit down on this thread and expect to walk away...

We got paid more and had better beni's as you call them because we were usually done a 4 week job in 2...

and it was done safely...

take you CWRat Piking Mastec ass to another thread bub....

there's Journeymen talking here....

Bill




I like to know when the **** he worked for a contractor, he was at a muni when he built the wye-wye bank and then it was Saudi. Talk about dementia …..he must be gnawing on his tail again…

[Highplains Drifter]

There are lots of contractors that in their daily tailboard there is a place to put an out for not using a bucksqueeze. These companies know that they can not be used 100% of the time. Some of these easement poles have gone to long and are so rotten. They can not take a climber that is going to shake the pole so much and cause an arm to brake or what ever. Also if a pole is between long spans everyone knows that a ruff climber cold get the phases to slap together, and of course pole steps and an off set riser causes to many objects to get around.

[Boomer gone soft]

Actually Boomer it isn't the skid that causes the fall, it's the foot work my friend! A properly adjusted skid in the proper working position will hold you all day long unless you forget where your gaffs are! I was just trying to say that you are still vulnerable to injury with the fall restraints. Stepping up in your belt, hitch hiking, and decending, the fall restraints are loose on the pole and are not fail safe no matter what the salesman tells you.

Exactly my point.

Skids do not prevent falls. And FALLS HAPPEN.....even to the best of hands.

That is well documented. Fall restraint may not be 100% failsafe, but it is 99% and that is a damned site better than hearing of any other linemen suffering lost time, disability, or DEATH!

Hard hats aren't 100% failsafe......shall we discard them for using your head?

Gloves and sleeves aren't 100% failsafe.....shall we discard them?

Safety Glasses still get wood chips behind them......toss them in the ditch!

Those FR shirts don't prevent all burns......wipe you ass with them!

Steel toed boots don't save an arch......burn 'em!!

What, pray tell, do we use that is 100% failsafe?



I couldn't name anything either.:rolleyes:

[Highplains Drifter]

Exactly my point.

Skids do not prevent falls. And FALLS HAPPEN.....even to the best of hands.

That is well documented. Fall restraint may not be 100% failsafe, but it is 99% and that is a damned site better than hearing of any other linemen suffering lost time, disability, or DEATH!

Hard hats aren't 100% failsafe......shall we discard them for using your head?

Gloves and sleeves aren't 100% failsafe.....shall we discard them?

Safety Glasses still get wood chips behind them......toss them in the ditch!

Those FR shirts don't prevent all burns......wipe you ass with them!

Steel toed boots don't save an arch......burn 'em!!

What, pray tell, do we use that is 100% failsafe?




I couldn't name anything either.:rolleyes:



Condoms.....:rolleyes:

[Boomer gone soft]

There are lots of contractors that in their daily tailboard there is a place to put an out for not using a bucksqueeze. These companies know that they can not be used 100% of the time. Some of these easement poles have gone to long and are so rotten. They can not take a climber that is going to shake the pole so much and cause an arm to brake or what ever. Also if a pole is between long spans everyone knows that a ruff climber cold get the phases to slap together, and of course pole steps and an off set riser causes to many objects to get around.

That's just idiotic.....

Let a man get hurt climbing an obviously red-tagged pole and watch the lawsuits on that one!

If it can't be done safely.....it shouldn't be done....

[Highplains Drifter]

That's just idiotic.....

Let a man get hurt climbing an obviously red-tagged pole and watch the lawsuits on that one!

If it can't be done safely.....it shouldn't be done....


So climbing is idiotic and not a skill for you?

[Boomer gone soft]

So climbing is idiotic and not a skill for you?

Climbing a pole such as the one you described is idiotic and shouldn't be done by anybody with any sense......chest pounder.:rolleyes:

[Boomer gone soft]

So climbing is idiotic and not a skill for you?

I'd love to stay and play your favorite childish game of who is tougher and the better lineman, but I must go to my nice little cush job......

and do some bucket work......:rolleyes:

since not all of linework is climbing......:rolleyes:

especially for those of us who work with energized wires.

[lewy]

We deem a pole to be unsafe based on the condition of the pole, then we will not climb it, not on the way or the person climbing (some people no matter what whey they climb would shake the shit out of it) I have never not climbed a pole because fall restraint made it unsafe, I have climbed quite a few where it made it a pain in the ass. If the pole is unsafe we change it. If it means an interruption so be it, we just notify & try & do it when it is least inconvenient.

[MI-Lineman]

Except for the safety glasses (which I'm not sure is a good analogy?) and the FR (which I thought "helped" prevent burns not provide 100% protection?) most of those things you listed sure as hell would give us 100% protection if we tested and used'em like we're supposed to!

Again, it just seems when someone is so willing to grab hold of a product like that buttsqueeze it shows me they weren't meant for this job? Or they weren't told how dangerous a job it is at the beginning (which I know isn't true!)? I can't believe anyone who has done any real work out of their hooks could embrace that thing or really any of the others?

Guess I'm a "Chest Pounder" too? Or as I call it a "Lineman!"

Man! I could see a whole new line of "Chest Pounder" t-shirts sold right here on the site?:cool:

Oh, and as far as doin "energized" work, it ain't only for buckets remember? That's what those "amp rated;) sticks" are for!:D

[Boomer gone soft]

The lines have been energized since the first telegraph wire long before buckets, and they climbed every pole. The only person childish, is you not to recognize the history of the trade.
Henry Miller helped form the IBEW, to bring safety into the trade that killed linemen at a daily rate. SO PLAY STUPID AND STAY IGNORANT, AND DO YOU SLEEP WALK SAFETY. I WOULDN'T WANT TO BE AROUND ANYONE THAT COULDN'T THINK FOR HIMSELF.

They weren't energized at these voltages and could be worked in leather from a pole.....wise guy.

I wouldn't want to be around anyone that sings the praises of the efforts of Henry Miller to make line work safe and bucks every effort since then.....:rolleyes:

btw, I do think for myself......I just don't think like you.:D

[Boomer gone soft]

Except for the safety glasses (which I'm not sure is a good analogy?) and the FR (which I thought "helped" prevent burns not provide 100% protection?) most of those things you listed sure as hell would give us 100% protection if we tested and used'em like we're supposed to!

Again, it just seems when someone is so willing to grab hold of a product like that buttsqueeze it shows me they weren't meant for this job? Or they weren't told how dangerous a job it is at the beginning (which I know isn't true!)? I can't believe anyone who has done any real work out of their hooks could embrace that thing or really any of the others?

Guess I'm a "Chest Pounder" too? Or as I call it a "Lineman!"

Man! I could see a whole new line of "Chest Pounder" t-shirts sold right here on the site?:cool:

Oh, and as far as doin "energized" work, it ain't only for buckets remember? That's what those "amp rated;) sticks" are for!:D

I believe fall arrest will also give us that level protection when we "use like we are supposed to".

I also believe it is a matter when not if we will all be using this or similar equipment. If we stop digging in our heels, there is a chance we can find something that suits almost everybody (I am not naive enough to believe the naysayers will ever go away).

I am befuddled by those who oppose the efforts to make things safer. I know none of us want to see a Brother unnecessarily injured.

I know we can also disagree on this and other topics and still remain friends and Brothers.

Take care of yourselves.......and each other.

[Boomer gone soft]

Ain't no "chest poundin" at all Man. It's Just....you are an ACTUCAL LINEMAN....watchin and living... Linework... becoming...just a "job"...where any fool...Safely protected, can do the work.:rolleyes:

It's all "clone" shit nowdays man...

No...Experience...necessary.:mad:

Drivel.....

Experience and training is more necessary today than at any other time in this industry's history......with the exception of Pike and Dead Simpson where ANY hayseed can call himself a "journeyman".:rolleyes:

[hotwiretamer]

Exactly my point.

Skids do not prevent falls. And FALLS HAPPEN.....even to the best of hands.

That is well documented. Fall restraint may not be 100% failsafe, but it is 99% and that is a damned site better than hearing of any other linemen suffering lost time, disability, or DEATH!

Hard hats aren't 100% failsafe......shall we discard them for using your head?

Gloves and sleeves aren't 100% failsafe.....shall we discard them?

Safety Glasses still get wood chips behind them......toss them in the ditch!

Those FR shirts don't prevent all burns......wipe you ass with them!

Steel toed boots don't save an arch......burn 'em!!

What, pray tell, do we use that is 100% failsafe?



I couldn't name anything either.:rolleyes:

I'm glad you are finally agreeing with my point. You forgot one safety item on your list that is used daily by most lineman:
"The skid" or "Buck strap", that aren't 100% failsafe, are now being tossed, burned, etc. because you can't use them anymore. The fall restraint is replacing them that is also not 100% just like you said! I wouldn't advise using your old buck to "wipe your ass" though!
What I try and use daily that is your best tool for being 100% fail safe is MY BRAIN!!!! :p

[old lineman]

What has voltage got to do with it.? I always worked secondary in leathers, everyone on my crew, and most other crews with Houston Light & Power worked secondary in leathers when I started out. I have knock more than one person out of contact with open wire secondaries. I still have scars from exit wounds where 7,200 blew me off a pole when my 10' Chance hotstick broke down. And not very often I tied in hot 4,160 in good transformer oiled heavy deerskin leathers. And as much as safety has advance, people are dying because people like you promote sleepwalk zombie safety, without one time explaining why you are doing something a certain way, and not another,. And Henry Miller died on a pole at those lower voltages.

Somewhere along the line I heard a saying and it goes like this.
"you never know a fool until he opens his mouth".
You tell of how many times you knocked a lineman away from a contact and that you have been burned yourself. Your ass is lucky to still be here.
I have NO respect for anyone who brags about how many close calls he's had.
Then you come on here and condemn people who want to encourage safe work methods.
I say, "blow it out of your shorts". Your a moron.
The Old Lineman

[Highplains Drifter]

Somewhere along the line I heard a saying and it goes like this.
"you never know a fool until he opens his mouth".
You tell of how many times you knocked a lineman away from a contact and that you have been burned yourself. Your ass is lucky to still be here.
I have NO respect for anyone who brags about how many close calls he's had.
Then you come on here and condemn people who want to encourage safe work methods.
I say, "blow it out of your shorts". Your a moron.
The Old Lineman


Old Lineman, I don’t feel Batts is bragging about his near miss. He has the balls to share it and I don’t see any other folks on the forum sharing any of their near misses. Your attitude and reply is the exact reason folks do not share any near misses because they do not want to be ridiculed by a moron in management like you. Drifter

[Boomer gone soft]

Unlike some of you, I do not consider brains and PPE mutually exclusive.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Boomer gone soft]

That's why...you're a Boomer...."gone soft".:rolleyes:
And...at YOUR age...you don't EVEN classify, as a "Boomer"...
the "gone soft" part...in your cush job, as a troubleman, at your age. Yup. undestand that.:D

Like I told ya a year ago boy...."Keep this job...as LONG as you can". You got it made.:cool:

Younger than you. Check.

Smarter than you. Double check.

Ruffled by being chided from the likes of you. Unlikely.:cool:

[Boomer gone soft]

Heh, heh, heh..:D
Ain't tryin to "rufffle" ya youngen...

just sayin...
ya got a GOOD thing man. STAY with it as long as ya can.:co ol:
AND...I hope ya can stay with it..a long time. You got a "trick pony" man...:cool: "Ride".:co ol:

I would like to settle this once and for all. I do find it annoying you constantly bring it up.

I am blessed. There is no doubt about that.

It was, however, no accident I got this job. I did not just fall into it.

I beat out several other very qualified linemen (most were older and more experienced than I) to get it.

I am also very good at it......that's how I've kept it.

Let's lay this subject to rest.

If you doubt me, or believe this is the cake job you imagine it to be, you are welcome to tag along anytime you wish........but the coffee will be on you.:)

While you're at it......bring your belt and hooks. I'll bet you dinner I can out-climb your old ass with my bucksqueeze.....and I DAMN SURE will with the Miller StopFall!:D

[Boomer gone soft]

Here is a link showing the improvements Alliant Energy initiated with the Miller StopFall.

http://www.millerfallprotection.com/pdfs/GaffPullers_data.pdf

I hope you all have a great weekend.

Those of you on storm work, be safe and keep your heads on a swivel.:)

[old lineman]

Old Lineman, I don’t feel Batts is bragging about his near miss. He has the balls to share it and I don’t see any other folks on the forum sharing any of their near misses. Your attitude and reply is the exact reason folks do not share any near misses because they do not want to be ridiculed by a moron in management like you. Drifter

Perhaps I was a little harsh.
For your info I wasn't management. You can take that to the bank, so get off that kick.
Next I hear what he said. It's my take that he and his co-workers were making electrical contacts on a fairly regular basis.
Don't just come on here and make out what a hero you are. There's a cause.
No rubber gloves. That's as plain as the nose one your face.
Change the circustance a little and you've got electrocutions.
It only takes milliamps to kill. There's enough in every secondary circuit on earth to do the job.
If you make contact with 120 volts and survive your ass is lucky.
That's the bottom line. Leather gloves are not insulators.
The Old Lineman

[wtdoor67]

Perhaps I was a little harsh.
For your info I wasn't management. You can take that to the bank, so get off that kick.
Next I hear what he said. It's my take that he and his co-workers were making electrical contacts on a fairly regular basis.
Don't just come on here and make out what a hero you are. There's a cause.
No rubber gloves. That's as plain as the nose one your face.
Change the circustance a little and you've got electrocutions.
It only takes milliamps to kill. There's enough in every secondary circuit on earth to do the job.
If you make contact with 120 volts and survive your ass is lucky.
That's the bottom line. Leather gloves are not insulators.
The Old Lineman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I was jist one lucky Mother. I survived at least 30 years of distb. work using leather gloves on secondary. The Lord watched over me I guess. Shoot, I've even contacted 120 volts several times also. Come to think of it I saw the same thing happen with guys I worked with. Ain't we lucky to be alive?

[Pootnaigle]

Fraid I hafta agree with Door on this one. I know its a direct violation of the rules but I just imagine as much secondary has been worked in leathers as not.N dont get me wrong I aint advocating it but I bleve most outfits require the use of Large bulky gloves rated for primary voltage instead of furnishing secondary gloves which only serves to fuel the practice.

[lewy]

The old guys who have since long retired would talk about wearing leather gloves to work primary on the real cold dry days in the winter (not condoning it). So yea if all the conditions are right you can defiantly wear leathers for secondary work, but if something is not right, you are taking an unnecessary risk. Fortunately we are supplied class 0 as well.

[wtdoor67]

The safety rules stated that 300 volts phase to phase and below could be worked in DRY, LEATHER GLOVES WITH NO HOLES in them.

[old lineman]

Oh, I'm aware of all the things that were done but that doesn't make it right.
In fact some old lineman tell of working 4,160 of a dry pole with leathers. Others tried it and died.
As far as that goes, don't you remember Lewy the journeyman lineman of many years that was killed working secondary out of a bucket about 10 years ago in St. Catherines.
He was violating the EUSA rules but had he be working for Hydro One no rules would have been broken.
My bottom line is that if you are doing your normal job and get killed there needs to be a rule to prevent a recurrence.
You see Lewy EUSA already had exerienced this in the municipal setting and put rules in place to prevent another needless death.
The linemen used to complain because EUSA rules called for a minimum of Class 1 for secondary voltages. Since some utilities didn't have 4,160 they only had Class 2 in their possesion.
So it was logical that this would be over kill.
EUSA changed the rules about 1990 to allow Class 0 but never backed leather gloves.
Now I understand some utilities are used Class 00 on secondary.
Also anyone who is getting a little long in the tooth knows that the old poles the pioneers were working from were only butt treated, therefore, the dry wood from the treatment to the top was untreated and more or less insulative in dry weather.
How conductive are fully treated poles? Let one contact a bare primary wire and all hell will break loose.
So it only stands to reason that leathers aren't adequate. You might as well be standing on the ground. 30-40' of contaminated wet wood is NO barrier from earth.
The Old Lineman

[old lineman]

The safety rules stated that 300 volts phase to phase and below could be worked in DRY, LEATHER GLOVES WITH NO HOLES in them.

Don't you have to air test your rubber gloves before you use them, and visually check for cuts and abrasions.
That's to verify the intergrity.
How do you test leather gloves? A sharp wire end can cut leather like hot butter.
Hey I'm not saying you have to stop doing what your doing. All I'm saying why do you take any unecessary risk. What's the gain?
If I was still working I'd want every barrier in place that is available because when an injury occurs it's always the victim who suffers.
In fact the employer will blame the worker everytime.
You'd risk your well being for them? Do you get more pay, do you get and early bang on Friday's? NO.
Think about it! If your gone tommorrow they'll just hire someone else and they'll say what a great guy you were.
The Old Lineman

[wtdoor67]

How conductive are fully treated poles? Let one contact a bare primary wire and all hell will break loose.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man you make so damn many BS statements. Your manner is somewhat like Swampies, as the I HAVE SPOKEN SO IT IS. You think you're Moses are something.

I saw many Penta treated poles set in the primary in Albuquerque, N.Mex. in 12470 Wye circuits without a piece of rubber installed. We wore our rubbers on the butts and the only sound ever heard if the pole contacted the primary was the buzzing like a hot stick. Saw it done time and again. Now if it was a creosote pole then rubber had to be applied. The soil there was very dry sand although it really wasn't far to the Rio Grande. Come on, you're not the authority on everything linework. There's always exceptions and a person does not need to memorize a safety book to be an expert lineo.

I never leather gloved anything higher than 300 volts. I knew better than to work higher voltages that way, but I really never thought it a big deal to work secondary with leather gloves. People are probably getting to where they think it's going to jump out and get theml.

In my book electricity is sure as hell to be respected but not scared to death of. That seems the attitude anymore.

[Pootnaigle]

I agree whole heartedly. Companies today try and make it seem like you'll never live another day if you even think about varying from the safety manual.I wouldnt recommend the process to a newbie. But for crying out loud a man that has cut his teeth on linework should know how to avoid getting in series with secondary. That being said I have worked with a few that didnt and at least one that thought an insulated bucket would prevent it. Sure didnt take em long to grab them rubbers.But in my opinion guys like the "Old Lineman" are responsible for that lack of understanding, and it waters down the trade.

[old lineman]

I know you think I know nothing about linework even though I spent a lifetime doing it. But what you say means that your mindset and mine are miles apart. Say what you want I can take it.
The only thing that got to me was mentioning me and Swamprat in the same sentence, NOT.
This may make some of you realize why there are so many safety procedures for the trades now.
A line superintendent told me once that they had to show the new potential employees how to use a shovel.
I couldn't beleive that.
He said think about it. The kids live on the 5th floor of an apartment where the walks are shovel and they have never used on.
Wait 10 years and see what the computer games and Blackberries have done to the new work force.
The Old Lineman

[rob8210]

Hey old lineman, I remember the fella that got killed on secondary about 10 years ago. I believe his name was Jimmy Smythe and he was working for Niagara Falls Hydro. Working secondary with leathers if I remember right. But he was also working alone away from the rest of the crew and seems to me I heard they never did figure out exactly what happened, no witnesses. They also lost a man about 15 years ago. Working secondary with leathers is still around. I never tried working 4160 with leathers, and I did work with a guy that claimed he worked 13.8 with leathers out of a bucket.Of course I called BS on that one.

[rob8210]

Hey old lineman, I remember the fella that got killed on secondary about 10 years ago. I believe his name was Jimmy Smythe and he was working for Niagara Falls Hydro. Working secondary with leathers if I remember right. But he was also working alone away from the rest of the crew and seems to me I heard they never did figure out exactly what happened, no witnesses. They also lost a man about 15 years ago. Working secondary with leathers is still around. I never tried working 4160 with leathers, and I did work with a guy that claimed he worked 13.8 with leathers out of a bucket.Of course I called BS on that one. Oh yeah I am the first one to say Eusa and the lawyers are doing their level best to take the thinking out of linework. I pity the young fellas today cause in a few short years there is going to be a lot of the blind leading the blind. Even today there is a lot of fellas working as foreman that have just barely gotten their ticket. Used to be a fella had to have been a journeyman for 10 years before he got considered for foreman.

[wtdoor67]

Yeah that was pretty low mentioning you and Swimpus in the same sentence.

Rob8210. Shore you could work 13.8 from a bucket with leathers. But who would want to? As long as the bucket is good. It'd be reckless though. Get in series and if you survived you'd probably get good using hooks for hands.

Putting some cover on some primary once from a bucket. Looked over at the other guy and he's sliding em on with his leathers. 12470/7200. I said. "Hey Troy". "What"? He replied. I said. "Put your f---ing rubbers on". He jumped back and jerked his hands away like he was touching a snake. Careless guy. The other guys laughed. Once they said they were working on some 4 KV from the pole. Looked over and there's old Troy standing astraddle an OH guy and working primary. Someone said. "Troy if your rubbers ain't no good you gonna blow your balls off". He was a goof ball alright. Nearest I ever came to having the flash was when he touched a tie to a ground. Lotta sparkling lights for awhile.

Never did know what happened to Troy. We were suspicious when he showed up. Had a pair of Kleins with a big old skanky place blown out of the back of em. Mumbled something about getting em into the stinger of a CSP.

Had an old foreman once. Said he was working in New Mexico once on some REC property. Climbed up a pole with a pot on it and past the pot. Got his hand into the stinger. No rubbers on of course. It knocked him coo coo. Had his safety around the pole but he said he couldn't move at all. The guy on the ground didn't have his tools but he did have a ladder and put it up and carried JB down by throwing him over his back and backing down the ladder. JB wasn't a shrimp but the guy who got him down was a big strong fellow. JB had a nasty scar mostly on his little finger.

[wtdoor67]

was for comparing him to your level. That is bad alright.

Unless Delta primary had a ground on it that I could see I never touched it without rubbers.

That "All Progress is Good" is only a cliche. You wouldn't realize it. Not all deemed as progress is actually so. It takes passage of time to realize if it was actually progress.

[Pootnaigle]

Yeah and your the same guy that would glove 13 off the stick to save settin up a truck or breaking out a stick. Secondary can knock yer dick in the dirt many times and you will almost always live to tell about it. But One tiny hole in them gloves on 13 will make someone a widow.Sorry but I bleve YOU took it a lil too far and set a damn poor example when ya did.

[Pootnaigle]

Let me assure you that anyone caught gloving 7200 off the pole would be run off so fast At ANY utility it would make your head spin. And I guess I am so dumb that I didnt realize that ya dont hafta touch the conductor when Gloving it.Just what the hell did you touch ?

[wtdoor67]

DELTA don't have a ground dumbass. It was 2400 delta. And yeah, we worked it all the time in leather Kuntz.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it did not have a ground on the phase being worked on, I put one on it before I would touch it with leather gloves. Doesn't sound like you were very familiar with Delta Mr. Technical.

I know the old hands told you about working it in leathers. I was never that dumb.

We had a bunch of 7200 grounded delta one place I worked. You could glove it off the pole, right?

[Boomer gone soft]

That ain't exactly workin 2400 delta hot is it dumbass.:D

You'd be surprised, I'd bet alot of the older guys on here....they've worked 2400 delta hot. They just don't want to say.

I really don't care. It was Way in the past.

Your dumbass is showing again.....:rolleyes:

The man said, "If it didn't already have one" he put a ground on it.

Of course you already knew that one phase of delta could be grounded and remain hot.:rolleyes:

[wtdoor67]

I tell you. Trying to splain something to that dumb butt is like pulling teeth.

2400 Delta still exists. They had about 3 podunk towns the last place I worked that had some. It's still worked in the same way. God you act like it's extinct or something.

They had some in about 3 of the places I've worked. It was common practice to go up a pole, take a shotgun stick (sometimes called a clamp stick etc and made by several co's) and put a ground on the phase being worked. This was just a piece of wire with a hot clamp on both ends. These can be pulled into the shotgun stick (the end being put on the phase after fastening the other end to a ground) and put on the hot phase.

After this the grounded phase could be worked in bare hands or leather gloves since it was the same potential as the ground then. Corner ground you see.

It was not considered prudent to place a ground on another phase at the same time. It was unhealthy for your eyes and could cause a quick sun tan.

Anyway I hope you get the picture. I tell you what, I'm thru explaining 2400 Delta to you. If you were literate I could point you towards a good book, but hell just forget it.

[rob8210]

Hey wtdoor67, I hear ya. I didn't say you couldn't work 7200 or 8000 with leathers, i just called the fella on it. You bet its reckless and senseless, especially with a set of rubber gloves very handy. And yes poot anybody caught working any primary live with leathers would be run right out the nearest door. Way too much liability to deal with. I never had to work any delta so what your saying about grounding a phase and working with leathers makes sense to me. Thanks for the info

[lewy]

I tell you. Trying to splain something to that dumb butt is like pulling teeth.

2400 Delta still exists. They had about 3 podunk towns the last place I worked that had some. It's still worked in the same way. God you act like it's extinct or something.

They had some in about 3 of the places I've worked. It was common practice to go up a pole, take a shotgun stick (sometimes called a clamp stick etc and made by several co's) and put a ground on the phase being worked. This was just a piece of wire with a hot clamp on both ends. These can be pulled into the shotgun stick (the end being put on the phase after fastening the other end to a ground) and put on the hot phase.

After this the grounded phase could be worked in bare hands or leather gloves since it was the same potential as the ground then. Corner ground you see.

It was not considered prudent to place a ground on another phase at the same time. It was unhealthy for your eyes and could cause a quick sun tan.

Anyway I hope you get the picture. I tell you what, I'm thru explaining 2400 Delta to you. If you were literate I could point you towards a good book, but hell just forget it.
I know we are getting a little off topic, but that is not unusual around here. I get the grounding 1 phase to keep everything at the same potential, but would you not want to cover up the other phase or phases & that would be a rubber glove method. I am guessing the highest delta voltage you could work off the pole would have been 2400. This is all coming from someone who has never worked on a true delta. Around here we can rubber glove 27.6 wye out of a bucket, but if it was 27.6 delta we would have to stick it.

[Boomer gone soft]

You ain't even payin attention kid.
I worked 2400 delta, off the pole...in 1969..HOT, with leather Kutz gloves. Tarpaper coated #6 and #4 copper.

Lay down youngen...stick with your "troubletruck" and your fu$k squeeze...37 year old kid.:rolleyes: In TODAYS linework.:rolleyes:

You don't even know what I'm talkin bout. Lot of the OLD boys on here do though. They just won't talk bout it.

Sounds like you are about as familiar with that as your infamous wye/wye bank.......

[Boomer gone soft]

Ignorant reply..."youngen".:rolleyes:

Are you really back to this again? Go lay down next to your bowl......adults are trying to have a conversation.

[wtdoor67]

We had an old muni hand named Jake. He was our grunt. Myself and another hand were in a bucket working on some 2400 delta. I took a mechanical jumper and screwed it onto the neutral of some open wire below us. I poised the other end of the mechanical above one phase. "Hey Jake, what's gonna happen if I put this on the phase"? Jake replied. "You'll start the biggest fire you've ever seen." I then slapped the mechanical on the phase and screwed it down. It made a very small spark. I said. "What do you think of that Jake"? "I've never seen that done before." Jake replied.

You sure you weren't just grunting in 69 Swimpus? You watched while the old hands worked in their Kuntz gloves. You can tell us Swimpo. We're your buddies. Ha, ha, ha. Fess up now.

[wtdoor67]

Yes Lewy you're right. Most areas for a long time had the limit of 5 KV and under could be gloved from the pole. Anything higher had to be sticked. 4160 Wye of course was legal to pole glove, that was about the limit. The rule was phase to phase. Of course the 4800 delta that's in a lot of areas would have been pole gloved. Never worked on any of it.

Yes on the grounding the corner if working on one phase (always the rule of course) it was common to use those fibers with a handle on them to cover the other phases. Sometimes folks would use the handle and sometimes take them in a shotgun stick and apply them.

[hotwiretamer]

Check out the International Lineman's Rodeo website. Hurtman rescue has changed! Looks like the beginnings of leveling the playing field for fall restraint!

[Meat1]

I finally got to use my pole lariat in a working situation after the tornado that hit trenton ga. It was great! I felt better climbing in it than I would have free climbing and a thousand times better than I did in the buckstrain. I never thought I would find anything better than free climbing but I'm eating my words this time! We had been climbing with it on the practice yard and a few times out goofing off but I didn't really have an idea if it was gonna be the ticket till I stepped up a pole and did some work out of it. I guess the thing to remember about the lariat is that it's not meant to be worked out of its sole purpose is to keep you from hitting the ground and that's it. Once you get where you are going you can slide this thing up out of the way and work out of your regular safety or like us your adjustable rope safety. We are bucking pretty hard to get our training dept. put it on the approved list. If we are smart enough to glove 25 kv we are smart enough to make our own decisions about our climbing gear.

[Highplains Drifter]

I want to know how you folks are implementing the Bucksqueeze when climbing ladders and working off of them?

[MI-Lineman]

I want to know how you folks are implementing the Bucksqueeze when climbing ladders and working off of them?

You're gonna like this one?:D Our apps have to use the squeeze on poles but did ya know it's not a violation to "climb" (you keep you're 3 pt contact while climbin!) a ladder with out a belt? It's only against the rules to "work" off a ladder without fall arrest? So they can use their adjustable rope or seat belt thingy when they get to their work height!:rolleyes:

No squeezey involved!

[Highplains Drifter]

You're gonna like this one?:D Our apps have to use the squeeze on poles but did ya know it's not a violation to "climb" (you keep you're 3 pt contact while climbin!) a ladder with out a belt? It's only against the rules to "work" off a ladder without fall arrest? So they can use their adjustable rope or seat belt thingy when they get to their work height!:rolleyes:

No squeezey involved!


The reason I brought this up was the other day I seen a phone lineman climbing a ladder but his work was in some trees so I couldn’t see if he was belted off. So I need a buck squeeze to climb to the work and once I get on a clipping ladder I can remove it?

[heelwinch]

I want to know how you folks are implementing the Bucksqueeze when climbing ladders and working off of them?

Couldn't geton as a lineman this summer so your going to paint houses???

[Highplains Drifter]

Couldn't geton as a lineman this summer so your going to paint houses???



You evidently have never done a substation and only used ladders….. But then your Just an Operator…

[MI-Lineman]

The reason I brought this up was the other day I seen a phone lineman climbing a ladder but his work was in some trees so I couldn’t see if he was belted off. So I need a buck squeeze to climb to the work and once I get on a clipping ladder I can remove it?

I guess?:o Their f$cked up rules! I was up a pole last night thinkin how many on here would have a heart attack seein no squeezey?:p:D

[Highplains Drifter]

I guess?:o Their f$cked up rules! I was up a pole last night thinkin how many on here would have a heart attack seein no squeezey?:p:D


lol...... love it.......http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Trbl639]

Drifter.........

Our substa hands have got a system they GOTTA use.........

full harness with D rings for a positioning belt......take a Shepherds Hook (on a pole/stick) with a retractable lanyard deal on it, ...reach up and hang it on the steel above em, then climb up..........and safety off.........if they gotta go higher than they got their retractable, take the Hook and move it up higher.......only gotta use it if they are over 4 ft......

They tell me it is a pain in the rear!!!!

[MI-Lineman]

If it took a bucksqueeze to get there, then they shouldn't be there. :mad:

I have to agree! Just that cowboy mentality again Steve?:rolleyes:

[Highplains Drifter]

Fall arrest, just one more reason to work U/G. Hard to fall out of a MH.



Unless you are in a registered enclosure then you have to have a harness on and a line tethered to a tripod.

[MI-Lineman]

Fall arrest, just one more reason to work U/G. Hard to fall out of a MH.

I always thought if ya climbed into an MH in China you would be climbin up and could fall out?:D;)

[MI-Lineman]

Maybe Bucksqueeze is a requirement in China when working UG???

Somethin tells me there's not too many safety rules in China?:(

[old lineman]

In a manhole where cable is being terminated and trained onto trays there could be two, three workers in a cable chamber at the same time.
Who gets tethered to the tripod?
The guy with the biggest wallet, the guy with the prettiest wife, the guy with the most seniority.
That's a legitimate question.
Obviously not all can be tethered so i had to develop a method of being able to retrieve all of them without entering the confined space.
Actually no one was tethered to the tripod but everyone could be retrieved.
If there is an interest I'll explain. If not that's OK.
The Old Lineman

[rob8210]

I am interested in hearing your plan , if you don't mind. Right now we have quite a bit of work where a couple of our crews are spending a fair amount of time in a manhole, er, maintenance hole , er, cable chamber, or whatever the heck we are supposed to call them now. Danged political correctness, just can't get into it.

[old lineman]

Before we start we have to assume that you have tested the atmosphere. It is an acceptable environment.
A tripod is set up. The tripod has a retrieval winch which is also a SRL (self retracting lifeline). Dual purpose--for raising and lowering material and to also serve as a fall protection system while descending and asending.
Every worker dons a full body harness. Each worker is attached to a 5/8" lifeline via the dorsal dee. The lifeline has to be long enough for it to reach the surface and have approximately 15' to spare.
Each worker is connected to the SRL while descending and detaches once on the lower level. This process is repeated for each worker.
Once the worker is detached and ready to work his lifeline is coiled on the ground and something placed on it to prevent it from falling into the confined space. A small bag of sand is ideal
WE DON'T ATTACH IT TO THE TRIPOD OR THE TRUCK IN CASE AN ERRANT VEHICLE SHOULD ENTER THE WORK ZONE AT THE STREET LEVEL (this has happened many times over the years). In fact it's often said that the workers in the confined space are safer than those working above.
This maens that there would be three lifelines exiting the hole, one for each worker.
The winch is free to use for whatever purpose you require.
If a rescue is required then a rope grab is placed onto the rope of the person needing rescue UPSIDE DOWN and attached to the winch line.
The system is changed to the SRL mode and ample cable is striped off of the drum to reach the worker below. Once this is done keep it off by placing your foot on it and pinching it against the ground.
Now take all of the slack out of the lifeline leading the the victim. Let the rope grab slide down the rope until it reaches the dorsal dee of the victims harness, remove your foot from the cbale and it will retract onto the drum.
Change gears to winch and begin winching the victim to the surface. Once he is out out of the hole to at least his knees begin pulling him aside.
Once there is slack in the line detach and pull him clear.
Repeat the procedure again and again if necessary.
This is a tried and true rescue method, so try it.
Remember the rope grab has to go on upside down otherwise it grips instead of sliding.
The Old Lineman

[old lineman]

Did I miss where you used a blower to purge the atmosphere????

I thought the topic was rescue, nothing else.
The Old Lineman

[old lineman]

.
Unless there is a vault explosion, or major sudden toxic gas leak, there shouldn't, be a rescue.
You ventilate, Test set up. Set up rescue,Tail Board. And hang Tester/Squawker off the tripod in the manhole about chest high of the workers in the hole. It should warn way in advance, before need of rescue.

A rescue is admittedly a rare event, however, our legislation says "take every precaution reasonable in the circumstance" which is understood that if a rescue could be needed you prepare for it.
That's the bottom line.
Haven't you ever heard of sudden illness.
The Old Lineman

[old lineman]

Yes heart attacks, one employee sick and tired of his pole buddy's shit and capping his ass.
But the whole plan laid out was skipping over the testing and monitor of the enclosed space. Most of the dads in the 1960's and 70's was attempted rescues where one two and sometimes three, rushed headlong into trouble trying to rescue a fellow worker. These rescue procedures need practiced as Pole Top Rescue.

You'd think I didn't know that 73% of confined space deaths are would-be rescuers.
If you took the time (are you that rushed?) to read what was said you'd know that I kept the subjuct narrow, the discussion to rescue.
Entry procedures are specific and I know them well. Why does everyone wander away from the topic.
Pole buddy? Excuse me, I thought this was URD.
First thing you know mental midget swampgas will chime in with politics.

The Old Lineman

[rob8210]

Thanks oldlineman that sounds like a great idea then if everybody in the manhole goes down for whatever reason they can all be retrieved without sending someone else in. I followed all your assumptions.

[MI-Lineman]

You'd think I didn't know that 73% of confined space deaths are would-be rescuers.
If you took the time (are you that rushed?) to read what was said you'd know that I kept the subjuct narrow, the discussion to rescue.
Entry procedures are specific and I know them well. Why does everyone wander away from the topic.
Pole buddy? Excuse me, I thought this was URD.
First thing you know mental midget swampgas will chime in with politics.

The Old Lineman

Actually the topic is the beloved "bucky!":rolleyes:

This would be a great thread to have started on your own? Thanks for the info!:)