breaking load without loadbreak

[kooman]

just curious what everyone out there is doing for loadbreak. obviously the load is getting larger and am curious at what level of load you are using loadbreak tools on cutouts or knife switches. I know that they are not designed to be load break, but in the real world it happens, i have been guilty of opening some pretty good loads on cutouts over the years but with the times changing i am wanting some input.

[Highplains Drifter]

I always figure if a tool is on the truck...use it!!!!! Hard to explain why you didn't, if some thing goes wrong.

[topgroove]

I always figure if a tool is on the truck...use it!!!!! Hard to explain why you didn't, if some thing goes wrong.
well said HD:) I think we're all guilty of opening something we wish we didn't. When things go bad it happens real quick.

[kooman]

well said HD:) I think we're all guilty of opening something we wish we didn't. When things go bad it happens real quick.

yea aint that the truth. does your company have certain policies on breaking load other than common sense?

[topgroove]

Basicly if you can get a loadbuster on it use it. I have cut loops in an emergency though;)

[Trbl639]

gotta agree with all.....if it's on the truck, use it if there is any doubt...........If it wasn't a 600A rated LoadBuster, we couldn't use it..........
and ALWAYS TEST em before ya use em...just takes a few minutes with a bell & battery or ohmmeter.....
had one go south on me, worked great on the first switch, let's say the second one wasn't a pretty sight, and the 3rd switch was burnt up, so I didn't need it on that one:D

[ratbastard101]

Company policy where I work is anything that is 50 KVA or above you are supposed to use a loadbreak. Its a bit overkill in my opinion but thats the rule here. Also must use a loadbreak on any switch feeding a cap bank, OCR, and any 600 amp switch.

[rcdallas]

6 line amps is the magic number around this part of the world. 7200 25kva @100% = 3.47 amps. So yeah I can see a 50kva no doubt or a 37 running @ 150%.

[rcdallas]

Took mine apart the other day.

http://www.sandc.com/edocs_pdfs/EDOC_001525.pdf

You might be surprised if you've never done it before.

[freshjive]

we use a loadbuster tool on pretty much everything we open cuz its our company policy...I mean 25's aren't a problem but anything 50 and above we loadbust it...I mean it takes 2 extra minutes to hook a loadbuster up and we're paid by the hour so its worth it anyway..:D

[kooman]

thanks for all the help guys, we dont have an actual policy on when or what to loadbreak but we are working on one, i was just wondering some guidlines for what everyone else is doing.

[Boomer gone soft]

I was surprised I didn't have a load-break tool on the truck when I got to Alliant. When I asked for one, especially for cap banks, my manager (never been a lineman) replied, "If it looks like you need one, just call for a second guy."

I am not sure what one "looks" like under more load than I expect, so I wear my FR and have given my wife specific instructions on who to sue.....:eek:

[Hambone]

Guess who gets the butt chewing when you burn something up and a note in your file?

[wtdoor67]

If I had an extendo, I usually just let er eat. Tried to catch it between cycles. You know when the sine wave is at zero.

[lineman2010]

If I had an extendo, I usually just let er eat. Tried to catch it between cycles. You know when the sine wave is at zero.


LMAO


On Ike I watched an ape try and pick up about a dozen 50kva cans with a cutout. It was all going well till he did not get the door closed all the way. I now know not to open that amount without a load break device.



I am on an underground crew now and we have to test the cable before closing in for good. The crew has a fused door in a hold stick that we just hold up to the cut out on riser poles. I can not say I am the biggest fan of the method but we have never had a problem yet............ I have stated my view on the matter, so we have atleast talked it over.

[wtdoor67]

One place I worked had one in the shop. Never saw it used.

They had a construction practice that was wise I thought. They used load break cutouts. I've heard people bitch about them but I thought they worked good. A lot were those angel wing types.

50 KVA and up got a load break cutout. All URD dips got one. I never inquired but certain line fuses had em. I suppose there was a criteria per load and line length.

Only saw one screw up with them. Guy had not cinched the fuse up tight in the barrel and it just set there partially closed. Got hot, melted the angel wing plastic and started a grass fire.

Hell I've opened a few hot clamps on lines that would make you pucker.

Load break tools are a good device though.

[Highplains Drifter]

Hell I've opened a few hot clamps on lines that would make you pucker.




Yes and with A-wire....:D

[freshjive]

we use em on everything 50kva and higher..Thats just how we're taught. Every truck has at least one "loadbuster tool" as they are called (for 13kv) or maybe even 2 (for 13 and 34kv). But I've just grown comfortable using one and like someone said, it takes 2 extra minutes and we get paid hourly so why not use it?

[LEAFMAN]

we use a loadbust on everything over 15 amps.

[barehander]

Our rules are very simple, these are the 3 fuses we use......
http://www.sandc.com/products/fusecutout/default.asp
http://www.sandc.com/products/smd_od/default.asp
http://www.sandc.com/products/faulttamer/default.asp

If you look at the first c/o, you'll see what we call "Horns", atachment for a loadbreak tool. The other 2 have them also. Our rules say that any cutout that has these "Horns" will be opened with a loadbreak tool. But, having said that, we install them on 10kva txs, etc. and I will tell you from experience, no one uses a loadbreak tool on a 10kva. We also have the 15amp rule, but it applies to cutting jumpers.........

[hotwiretamer]

All our URD distribution risers, Cap. banks, and radial taps off of our 3 phase have Load Break cut-outs. If any of these don't, we use a loadbust tool. I have never used one for a Transformer though.

[Boomer gone soft]

It's a Great tool. I guess.....
Used one a couple of times. Didn't think much of it. Never had any real "rules" for usin one. Always had one available though.

Never...Ever used one on a Trans. Bank...or Cap Bank.

I guess I just don't really know where they would...truly be needed to be used.:confused:

Finally......some honesty regarding your skills and training.

Any 3rd step UNION ape knows a cap bank is ALWAYS at full load.:rolleyes:

[Lineman North Florida]

I was always taught to use it on cap banks even if they had oil switches as the internal contacts don't always open, always use it nowadays on laterals and 600 amp switches because load has increased through the years, I understand not wanting to climb a pole in the rear lot unnecessarily to open up a 10 kva pot when it can be done safely from the ground with a pogo, but what I don't understand is some peoples unwillingness to use them when they are right there in the bin, and it only takes a minute to put it on your stick when your opening up something such as a large loaded bank or long lateral, seems like cheap insurance to me.

[Hambone]

It's a Great tool. I guess.....
Used one a couple of times. Didn't think much of it. Never had any real "rules" for usin one. Always had one available though.

Never...Ever used one on a Trans. Bank...or Cap Bank.

I guess I just don't really know where they would...truly be needed to be used.:confused:

I hope you are kidding but my neighbor heard me laughing when i read your quote.

[freshjive]

ya we use em on cap banks too weather they are fixed or have the control box mounted on the pole

[wtdoor67]

Working for a contractor. We had just hung a fixed bank. One guy said. Watch this, I'm gonna scare hell out of the grunts. He intended to tease it closed and make a big arc. I think it wound up scaring him more than the grunts.

[BGJunior]

According to The EUSA rule book here in ontario you need to use a loadbust on anything over 15 amps

[Big22]

hello every one I'm new here but been following the web site for a long time and just sign in maybe i can help out
in ontario canda we have a rule if its more then 15 amps we would use a load break tool on a line fuse or transformer
i been to alot of calls where the cut out is half broken or so what and the power is still on you just have to lift the live line clamp off real fast but it's always got to take a amp check before you open a cut out it only take a couple of secondes all of are bucket trucks carry load broke tools

[LEAFMAN]

Wow...
Not to be rude or anything...really. But isn't that..."bullet proofing" Linework?
15 Amps??:(

Yes these are our safety regulations. I have seen a loadbust fail too, it was quite the ball of fire. So I am quite content with the 15amp rule. It takes 5 extra minutes to put a loadbust on a extendo stick. Not to be rude, but i wondered why some of the others on this site are so hard on you. Now seeing more and more of your comments, it just makes me think you are a complete "TOOL" !!

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmm 15 amps on say 4 Kv aint too bad to break The same 15 amps on 13.2 is gettin border line and 15 amps on 34.5 Kv will draw ya a helluva arc.I reckon this 15 amp thang is kinda relative.Ive broken 15 amps on 69 and it aint purdy.

[LEAFMAN]

Ummmmm 15 amps on say 4 Kv aint too bad to break The same 15 amps on 13.2 is gettin border line and 15 amps on 34.5 Kv will draw ya a helluva arc.I reckon this 15 amp thang is kinda relative.Ive broken 15 amps on 69 and it aint purdy.

Most common for us on 16.2/27.6 feeders. A couple times on our 8kv feeders. Haven't used it on 4kv.

[glover]

our rule was if it had load break ears than use a load break tool, however on small tx's we would open them with a switch stick. old school i guess???

[Liledgy]

Were required to use them at com ed. Of course single tubs with only a couple of customers is over kill. We always use them whn splitting feeders that were tied together. All the troublemen carry 2 and they change them out every six months. They are always on a dedicated stick because we use them so much.

[freshjive]

Glover, we got the same policy, but we always use them on capacitor banks even when we open the vacum or oil switches up from the control box, because we are always trained that "just because the indicator says its open, that don't necessarily mean it is". But like I said, cans 25 kva and below we pop em open with a switch stick, but 50's and above, we loadbust it. Drawing an arc on the 34 line although very pretty:D, is not good on the eyes and can give u a nice accidental tan as well.

[wtdoor67]

There's instructions on how to disassemble them and clean them. They get contaminated with carbon , and that's when they're apt to fail.

[Boomer gone soft]

Naw...Not a "tool"...a REAL Lineman, before the trade went to guys like you.

Just "different times" my friend.

The "bullet proofing" of Linework.....The New Norm.

I was a Lineman, when, common sense prevailed. "commen sense" has been taken out of the equation of Linework now days. It's all..."Clone Linework".

It's all good...
It's "safer".:rolleyes:

I, and my family, are glad it's safer. There is no room in this trade for stalwarts who love to pound their chests and remember "the good old days".

Of course, most of us are working with Brother Linemen we actually care about; as opposed to some third-world nationals in the burning sands.

Drivel.....

[jozmo]

Naw...Not a "tool"...a REAL Lineman, before the trade went to guys like you.

Just "different times" my friend.

The "bullet proofing" of Linework.....The New Norm.

I was a Lineman, when, common sense prevailed. "commen sense" has been taken out of the equation of Linework now days. It's all..."Clone Linework".

It's all good...
It's "safer".:rolleyes:

I'm a j-man since '73 , what "good days are you referring to ? Are you talking about days before we had buckets and little in the way of load,or the days when a strong back and weak mind made you a good lineman ? I don't remember much good about those days . I'm in favor of any tool or procedure that will make my job easier and safer .

[Highplains Drifter]

Naw...Not a "tool"...a REAL Lineman, before the trade went to guys like you.

Just "different times" my friend.

The "bullet proofing" of Linework.....The New Norm.

I was a Lineman, when, common sense prevailed. "commen sense" has been taken out of the equation of Linework now days. It's all..."Clone Linework".

It's all good...
It's "safer".:rolleyes:



Back in the Day is not today and your problem is you didn’t let your knowledge grow as line work changed and grew, I have seen hands that have businesses they work seven months a year and then do line work five and if you are not doing it every day you lose your sharpness. It is not 1980 anymore.:rolleyes:

[wtdoor67]

If a man can't open cutouts without some kind of "bullet proofing" gadget, or work 7200 from the pole he ain't much of a lineman. A pair of good leather gloves is all a real hand needs.

If he can't go for 30 years without a few scars or twitching, he should never have been a lineman.

I knew of a contractor once whose supt. had a hook on one hand and an artificial leg. Now there's a real hand if you ask me. If you worked for them and hadn't been burned by primary at least once you weren't considered qualified.

Kinda like all them sissy Marines and Army dudes wearing helmets and body armor. Hell take your chances. Same for linework. Push the envelope. Maybe you'll get lucky and be able to push 3rd world hands or some such.

[Hambone]

Really? You use em on Trans. Banks? ALL banks, or just ones over a certain size? Ya use em on Laterals too?


Now that i think back a bit i did not use them on tx banks because you were going to c/o pole and hang new tx's so customers always dropped the sec. load because they wanted to protect their equipment... I have always worked for a sub-contractor so we hardly opened up a lateral unless we had to change phasing and i would say 6 amps is pushing it unless it is real windy that day

[Bear]

Do make sure you clean your loadbuster as suggested by the maker. These things work by getting in series with the fuse as you open the cutout and then suddenly snapping their internal contacts away from each other to quench an arc safely. If they do get too much build-up inside they can conduct and flash over internally and will then stop working in a hot and noisy way. :D

Following the makers instructions for cleaning is straightforward, and once you've done it once you'll understand how it all goes together.

Good gadget. Very clever.

Helps reduce the risk of other issues associated with a sustained arc, including the transients.

[freshjive]

i read in the S&C manual that a loadbuster has a type of gas in the tube of it and the gas snuffs out the arc. Maybe there are different types of loadbusters from different companies, but that's the S&C ones that we have, have the gas in em, but they always reccomend that you make sure the counter on the top is registering and working. We had an incident with one one time where we used it on a switch in a substation. (I think the loadbuster can do 300 amps safely). Well he turned that loadbuster into a melted pile of plastic at the end of a stick..Now I don't recall if the loadbuster wasn't working properly and there was too much amperage on the line, or if the point of attctchment slipped off the cut out horn and caused it to not fully open to kill the arc. None-the-less that was 1100$ of hot melted plastic after that..That's what they cost I saw an order form on the desk. A 4-15kv loadbuster is 1100$ and a 19-46kv one is 1800$. They ain't cheap thats for sure.

[wtdoor67]

Nothing but a bunch of "Bullet Proofing Wimps". Bunch of sissies who can't stand a little far.

[BigClive]

A 4-15kv loadbuster is 1100$ and a 19-46kv one is 1800$. They ain't cheap thats for sure.

That's the same cost as a defibrillator. Just thought I'd mention that 'cos they seem to be able to afford the tools you need to do their work, but not the ones you need to survive while doing their work. :cool:

[Bear]

i read in the S&C manual that a loadbuster has a type of gas in the tube of it and the gas snuffs out the arc.

When the arc is drawn out the liner liberates gases that help quench the arc. Here's the manufacturers page describing it's operation.
http://www.sandc.com/products/loadbuster/loadbuster_operation.asp

The absolute best bit about maintaining these things is the first time you do it and you wonder if it's actually goin' to work or just blow up in your face. :D

[MI-Lineman]

That's the same cost as a defibrillator. Just thought I'd mention that 'cos they seem to be able to afford the tools you need to do their work, but not the ones you need to survive while doing their work. :cool:

Dam! That's a great point!:) Thanks Clive! Even if you are "JUST" a "narrowback!;)

Just kiddin man!:p

[bobelectric]

Why do you want to open that line ,anyway?

[Highplains Drifter]

Why do you want to open that line ,anyway?



Is that line loaded?:rolleyes:

[wtdoor67]

Why do you want to open that line ,anyway?

Bob, they're opened for many reasons. The most common are probably emergencies (storms) and planned outages.

[BigClive]

Dam! That's a great point!:) Thanks Clive! Even if you are "JUST" a "narrowback!;)

Just kiddin man!:p

Y'know, I've often thought it would be quite cool to have one of those work shirts you guys wear in America, particularly with an electric company logo on it. But sadly you guys all seem to have narrow backs, so I'd never get one that fitted. :rolleyes:

[MI-Lineman]

Y'know, I've often thought it would be quite cool to have one of those work shirts you guys wear in America, particularly with an electric company logo on it. But sadly you guys all seem to have narrow backs, so I'd never get one that fitted. :rolleyes:

:D Touché! How about a hard hat too?;):p

Still! Can't wait to bring up Monday the cost comparison between a "life saving" device and an "equipment saving" one for our crews!

[Hambone]

Why do you want to open that line ,anyway?

90% of the time i use one is when dispatch needs some switching done and the switching requires breaking feeder ties.

[climbsomemore]

Naw...Not a "tool"...a REAL Lineman, before the trade went to guys like you.

Just "different times" my friend.

The "bullet proofing" of Linework.....The New Norm.

I was a Lineman, when, common sense prevailed. "commen sense" has been taken out of the equation of Linework now days. It's all..."Clone Linework".

It's all good...
It's "safer".:rolleyes:

hos long were you in this business? When I started at FPL in the early 80's we were retiring some old 600 amp S&C Loadbusters and trading up to 900 amp units. The old ones were *OLD* then.

By the rules... if a switch had "ears" we were supposed to use it. In practice- if you got the secondary load off (drop a main at the customer) we would generally pop single transformers up to 37.5, sometimes 50 Kva with a extendo or long switch stick .

I never got a photo of it... but we had a old load break device around the shop it was a fuse holder (a cool cast bronze thing marke "Kearney"... you put a a fit all just lower than what the line fuse was... added the fuse holder in series with a temporary jumper... when it was in place...you cut the permanent jumper or jerked the box open. In a few minutes the overloaded fuse would melt and drop load.

Having only seen one of these devices... I kinda figure they never caught on. A retired lineman I knew told me they had tossed the few they bought in the early 50's.

Most folks use the oil switch on a cap bank to open it. I did that too... one day I "opened" the oil switches and intended to jerk the fuse doors with a stick then remove the taps. Hit the switch on the radio control... heard the
"thunk" and saw the yellow handles move on all 3 OC's. Jerked the second cutout open.the first one went well enough... 40 amps at 13.8. The oil switch under #2 never opened... the contacts stayed in --- and the yellow handle moved anyway.

Maybe thats why it's a "rule"?

[wtdoor67]

The "bullet proofing" of Linework.....The New Norm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha. Damn that cracks me up. Muy nam iss swimprat. I er a lyon man. Ha, ha ha ha ha ha.

That post pertaining to this is about the dumbest I have ever seen the Swimpo make. That, and "floating the Wye/Wye" rank in the top 1% of stupid. Getting plenty stupider I reckon.

[Little]

If a man can't open cutouts without some kind of "bullet proofing" gadget, or work 7200 from the pole he ain't much of a lineman. A pair of good leather gloves is all a real hand needs.
..........

I knew of a contractor once whose supt. had a hook on one hand and an artificial leg. Now there's a real hand if you ask me. If you worked for them and hadn't been burned by primary at least once you weren't considered qualified.


Post made me laugh out loud... Thanks for the pick me up!

I've seen too many buddies get badly hurt or KILLED, to think that badass attitude is worth the price. Had to work with some morons like that already...stupidity + attitude = close call, if you're lucky, worse if you're not.

[wtdoor67]

Post made me laugh out loud... Thanks for the pick me up!

I've seen too many buddies get badly hurt or KILLED, to think that badass attitude is worth the price. Had to work with some morons like that already...stupidity + attitude = close call, if you're lucky, worse if you're not.

If you've been part of or witness to etc. of accidents in the work, please post em in the safety and accident forum. Not necessary to name companies or people of course. Just the crux of it so folks understand what happened. Any happening is relevant, and might save somebody in the future.