California.

[wtdoor67]

I think California is mostly different than most parts of the country. I used to work for Pac. Pwr. and Light. Occasionally I used to look thru the spec. book. They had properties at the time in Wy., Idaho, Montana, Wash., Oregon and a little bit of Calif. The specs were pretty much the same, except for California.

There was a separate section of the book for Calif. specs. My impression was the State corporation commission or Public Service Commission had a hand in some of their specs. I just remember that bolts were limited as to how much could stick thru a pole and they had some kind of funky plastic looking cover that you put over the bolts where they stuck thru. Also those signs they put on the crossarms saying hi voltage or something. I noticed in Hawaii they had similar construction.

We used to have some LAWP hands who posted on here and they were interesting. They still cling to that 4800 Delta and for some inane reason refuse to cut it to a higher voltage causing plenty of multiple circuits on the poles. The LAWP hands asserted it had something to do with the grounding conditions there. Not much Wye I don't think although I know they got some 34.5, used I guess, for sub-transmission.

I don't get why they use so much ungrounded Wye, Barehander? Give us some input on that.

As an aside I remember PP's spec showed a framing instruction for, no shit, putting a line on trees. Basically just consisted of lopping the limbs off and hanging arms on the trees. Funny I thought.

[electric squirrel]

In the West Coast we have "General Ordanance" 95/128,,basicaly the building spec for oh and ug ......some stupid ass engineer wrote it I guess,,some of it is just stupid some of it I can reason with,,,,,

[heelwinch]

I think California is mostly different than most parts of the country. I used to work for Pac. Pwr. and Light. Occasionally I used to look thru the spec. book. They had properties at the time in Wy., Idaho, Montana, Wash., Oregon and a little bit of Calif. The specs were pretty much the same, except for California.

There was a separate section of the book for Calif. specs. My impression was the State corporation commission or Public Service Commission had a hand in some of their specs. I just remember that bolts were limited as to how much could stick thru a pole and they had some kind of funky plastic looking cover that you put over the bolts where they stuck thru. Also those signs they put on the crossarms saying hi voltage or something. I noticed in Hawaii they had similar construction.

We used to have some LAWP hands who posted on here and they were interesting. They still cling to that 4800 Delta and for some inane reason refuse to cut it to a higher voltage causing plenty of multiple circuits on the poles. The LAWP hands asserted it had something to do with the grounding conditions there. Not much Wye I don't think although I know they got some 34.5, used I guess, for sub-transmission.

I don't get why they use so much ungrounded Wye, Barehander? Give us some input on that.

As an aside I remember PP's spec showed a framing instruction for, no shit, putting a line on trees. Basically just consisted of lopping the limbs off and hanging arms on the trees. Funny I thought.

G.O. 95 and 128, California Lawmakers deciding on construction practices... I never worked in Cali but worked with some that had. I think they once told me that even the Bells and cable guys had to use 4' arms to maintain climbing space for power. All risers on 6" stand offs...

[heelwinch]

In the West Coast we have "General Ordanance" 95/128,,basicaly the building spec for oh and ug ......some stupid ass engineer wrote it I guess,,some of it is just stupid some of it I can reason with,,,,,

ehhh sorry squirrel, didn't read your post... you are from the land of Fruits and Nuts I take it??

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

In the West Coast we have "General Ordanance" 95/128,,basicaly the building spec for oh and ug ......some stupid ass engineer wrote it I guess,,some of it is just stupid some of it I can reason with,,,,,

I'm not positive, but I think GO 95 was designed by the railroad.

[electric squirrel]

Don't need any holes or poles.

On the way to Butte Meadows? Looks familiar,,,,

[barehander]

I'm not positive, but I think GO 95 was designed by the railroad.
That is correct, and it's a pain in the a$$.

[barehander]

I think California is mostly different than most parts of the country. I used to work for Pac. Pwr. and Light. Occasionally I used to look thru the spec. book. They had properties at the time in Wy., Idaho, Montana, Wash., Oregon and a little bit of Calif. The specs were pretty much the same, except for California.

There was a separate section of the book for Calif. specs. My impression was the State corporation commission or Public Service Commission had a hand in some of their specs. I just remember that bolts were limited as to how much could stick thru a pole and they had some kind of funky plastic looking cover that you put over the bolts where they stuck thru. Also those signs they put on the crossarms saying hi voltage or something. I noticed in Hawaii they had similar construction.

We used to have some LAWP hands who posted on here and they were interesting. They still cling to that 4800 Delta and for some inane reason refuse to cut it to a higher voltage causing plenty of multiple circuits on the poles. The LAWP hands asserted it had something to do with the grounding conditions there. Not much Wye I don't think although I know they got some 34.5, used I guess, for sub-transmission.

I don't get why they use so much ungrounded Wye, Barehander? Give us some input on that.

As an aside I remember PP's spec showed a framing instruction for, no shit, putting a line on trees. Basically just consisted of lopping the limbs off and hanging arms on the trees. Funny I thought.

This has been talked about before, I stumbled on this awhile back and saved it.....alot of familier names talking about some of your questions....
http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/archive/index.php/t-3457.html
Made me chuckle....
First, let's talk about why Cal. is different (other than the obvious). Calif. doesn't recognize Fed OSHA, we have Cal OSHA which is much more strict. Our standards are also based on GO 95, started by the railroad in the late 1800's.
GO 95 has a section about "climbing space". It's different in reference to the primary voltages. Secondary voltages are the same, 24" x 24". 12kv pri. is a box 24" x 24" at pri. level. 21kv is 28" x 24". It's measured from the center line of the pole in any quarter and it can only move a quarter at a time every 4' up the pole. That space stops at the very top arm or bracket, so on a dist. pole, let's say a line and buck, it stops at the top arm. On a Trans. pole with Dist. underbuild, it stops at either the lowest arm at the top, or the brackets at the Trans' level. Things not allowed in the climbing space....any conductor, pri. or secondary, jumpers, cutouts, more than 2 guy wires unless the 3rd one is connected 4' away from the others, any "BOLT" longer than 1". You should be able to stand at the bottom of a pole, no matter how many circuits it has on it, and see that "box". all the way to the top, even tho it may move a 1/4 at at time every 4". Climbing space at the Sec. level...let's say you have a single phase line, 1 tx, open wire sec. on 1 side of the pole and a service on the other side. the climbing space starts at the bottom, measured 12" from center on the backside. When you get to the Sec' level, as long as the service on the opposite side is 90deg or more in reference to the open wire, that space can now move from the centerline of the backside and the center line of the side, shifting a 1/4. (Man I wish I had a diagram). Now let's say on that same pole, you add another service that goes to a place on the backside of that Tx. Now you have put a conductor into that space. GO 95 now says that you must now go to "rack" construction (15" brackets) on each side to keep that climbing space.
Now, even I'm confused!
Now bolt length. First of all, it just looks more professional if they are all cut off. I remember in my early years in reconstruction, cutting off up to 30 bolts on a pole with a hacksaw. Makes my arms hurt just thinking about it.
We all now know in Cali., we don't ground tx's. We do run a ground for secondary when a secondary neutral is used. (We do have 3 phase 480, no ground). Those little black plastic thingies are called bolt covers. We are allowed to climb past Tx's, Cutout arms, and primary arms, with proper cover, and, at that level, rubber gloves must be used. The bolts of all Tx's are covered, as well as the bolts on aluma form c/o arms, and centerline deadend bolts in the case of a buck arm, or underbuild on Trans. Those covers have nothing to do with keeping you from ripping your shirt or pants.
Cutting out is always a concern, and I would hate to get above a bolt sticking out 6" and leave my "family pride" on that bolt because someone was just to lazy to cut it off.........
Door, I'll get back to all that 3 wire wye later, again my head hurts and I need a beer......

[barehander]

I don't get why they use so much ungrounded Wye, Barehander? Give us some input on that.


OK, I'm back after a little break and a few beers, so if my spelling starts to slur, it's alcohol related. About 3 wire wye.....I'm not sure, but I think we use it because of financial reasons, and it does work. First, our system is over 100yrs old. I think it started with 2400v, or 4800v. I've never worked 2kv or 4kv. When the company realized that loads were increasing, they decided to convert to a 3 wire wye 12kv, and all of our 12kv has no neutral. Our company has, now, over 142,000 miles of distribution, and for them to put in a 4 wire system....the cost would be extreme and would have to be passed on to the customer. The Cal. Puplic Utility Commision (CPUC) deals with all utilities, from water to cable tv, who approve all of the Capital improvements, that are passed on to the rate payer. I would tell you what I pay for electicity, which is a 5 tier system, but I don't want to shed tears on my keyboard. I'm sure when they converted, there were wye connections on the pri. In my area, I have never seen that, only delta on the 12kv.
Standards have changed over the years when it comes to sub. upgrades. So now, upgrades from 12kv to 21kv must include a 4 wire system.........so what I'm going to address is overloads on older subs and systems, some 70 to 80yrs old, mostly rural. I'm going to name the subs., a, b and c. Let's say a & b are about 40mi apart. They are separated by what we call, a "normal open" switch, only closed for paralleling for switching purposes, or to pick up line to another open point due to wire down, or a car/pole. Thru the years, due to Ag or Industry load, the Dist. & Trans. banks became overloaded. Because the cost of Sub. upgrades was high, the Co. decided in these areas, to install step up transformers, 12kv 3 wire, to 21kv 3 wire at a detemined distance from each sub, thus cutting that load in half. That way, you could back-feed in any direction in for any reason. That's where those D-D, D-W, W-D, and W-W connections come into play. The 3rd sub, c comes into play in this area. It was a 3 wire 12kv system and seperated at a point where DDE jumpers were removed and a Sign was put at Pri. level saying "Do Not Close. 12/21." When that sub became overloaded, before the new standards, we converted it to 3 wire 21kv, installed a switch at that open point, and now have a 3rd sub to help carry load in case of emergency. I hope this all makes sense, if not ask away.
I now need more beer, and a nap..............

[Resto-master]

G.O. (general order) 95 overhead.
G.O. (general order) 128 underground.
PUC, public utility commission.

Yes in CA climbing space matters etc, high signs required, bolt covers required for any bolts energized in the climbing space or in some cases bonded.

Little I hear the standards are high for construction in CA. Making it not so much fun for people from other places.

[lewy]

This has been talked about before, I stumbled on this awhile back and saved it.....alot of familier names talking about some of your questions....
http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/archive/index.php/t-3457.html
Made me chuckle....
First, let's talk about why Cal. is different (other than the obvious). Calif. doesn't recognize Fed OSHA, we have Cal OSHA which is much more strict. Our standards are also based on GO 95, started by the railroad in the late 1800's.
GO 95 has a section about "climbing space". It's different in reference to the primary voltages. Secondary voltages are the same, 24" x 24". 12kv pri. is a box 24" x 24" at pri. level. 21kv is 28" x 24". It's measured from the center line of the pole in any quarter and it can only move a quarter at a time every 4' up the pole. That space stops at the very top arm or bracket, so on a dist. pole, let's say a line and buck, it stops at the top arm. On a Trans. pole with Dist. underbuild, it stops at either the lowest arm at the top, or the brackets at the Trans' level. Things not allowed in the climbing space....any conductor, pri. or secondary, jumpers, cutouts, more than 2 guy wires unless the 3rd one is connected 4' away from the others, any "BOLT" longer than 1". You should be able to stand at the bottom of a pole, no matter how many circuits it has on it, and see that "box". all the way to the top, even tho it may move a 1/4 at at time every 4". Climbing space at the Sec. level...let's say you have a single phase line, 1 tx, open wire sec. on 1 side of the pole and a service on the other side. the climbing space starts at the bottom, measured 12" from center on the backside. When you get to the Sec' level, as long as the service on the opposite side is 90deg or more in reference to the open wire, that space can now move from the centerline of the backside and the center line of the side, shifting a 1/4. (Man I wish I had a diagram). Now let's say on that same pole, you add another service that goes to a place on the backside of that Tx. Now you have put a conductor into that space. GO 95 now says that you must now go to "rack" construction (15" brackets) on each side to keep that climbing space.
Now, even I'm confused!
Now bolt length. First of all, it just looks more professional if they are all cut off. I remember in my early years in reconstruction, cutting off up to 30 bolts on a pole with a hacksaw. Makes my arms hurt just thinking about it.
We all now know in Cali., we don't ground tx's. We do run a ground for secondary when a secondary neutral is used. (We do have 3 phase 480, no ground). Those little black plastic thingies are called bolt covers. We are allowed to climb past Tx's, Cutout arms, and primary arms, with proper cover, and, at that level, rubber gloves must be used. The bolts of all Tx's are covered, as well as the bolts on aluma form c/o arms, and centerline deadend bolts in the case of a buck arm, or underbuild on Trans. Those covers have nothing to do with keeping you from ripping your shirt or pants.
Cutting out is always a concern, and I would hate to get above a bolt sticking out 6" and leave my "family pride" on that bolt because someone was just to lazy to cut it off.........
Door, I'll get back to all that 3 wire wye later, again my head hurts and I need a beer......

Yea a picture or diagram would help. They have box style construction in Toronto & I saw something similar in New Orleans, but I am not sure if this is close to what you are describing.

[Resto-master]

30x30" climbing box on 0-5kv
36x36" climbing box on 5kv to 21kv
42" climbing space when buckarm construction is utilized.
All measurements from Centerline of pole.

[Resto-master]

Dont like high standards stay off PG@E Soil.

[barehander]

Dont like high standards stay off PG@E Soil.

I realize you're new here, but why do high standards scare you?

[Resto-master]

I think ya be mistaken barehander, im saying that statement to others. High standards are good and a bit more challengeing. excuse my spelling.

[barehander]

I think ya be mistaken barehander, im saying that statement to others. High standards are good and a bit more challengeing. excuse my spelling.
Gotcha, A pause in your response changes it all. But that's how Lineman write......as they speak, no commas, start and finish, with just a period at the end..............

[Resto-master]

Barehander..........I am assumeing you work for PG@E?

[wtdoor67]

I think he retired from there.