Great Strides...??? Not

[heelwinch]

Stocks sink on fresh fears about global economy
07/11/11 17:31EDT
NEW YORK -July doesn't look so promising anymore.

The European debt crisis appears to be widening, with concerns about government debt defaults spreading beyond Greece to much larger countries like Italy and Spain. If that happens companies that do business internationally could see their revenue and profits decline as European countries and companies curtail purchases. What's more, a widespread financial crisis could cause a credit crunch in Europe and elsewhere.

The concerns sent stocks down. After a rally that sent markets up sharply the last two weeks of June, the Standard & Poor's 500 index dropped 24.31 points, or 1.8 percent, to 1,319.49 on Monday.

The Dow Jones industrial average had its biggest percentage drop in nearly a month. It fell 151.44 points, or 1.2 percent, to 12,505.76. And after closing one point off its 2011 high late last week, the Nasdaq composite fell 57.19, or 2.0 percent to 2,802.62.

Italy and Spain, Europe's third and fourth largest economies, have seen bond yields rise sharply. It's the latest sign that investors are less willing to hold the debt of those countries. Italy's largest banks, UniCredit SpA and Intesa, fell sharply on European exchanges. Some investors believe several of Italy and Spain's financial institutions might not pass an upcoming stress-test for European banks.

"What the European Union is trying to do is keep the problem contained at a sovereign level and not have the infection spread to the banking system," said Jack Ablin, chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank. "To see a bank drop that much that fast suggests there may be a breach."

That has led to fears in Europe and elsewhere that the aid from international lenders may not be enough to stop a broad deterioration of the European economy.

The S&P fell broadly, led by financial companies. Financial stocks in the index fell 2.8 percent as bank stocks sank. Investment manager Janus Capital Group fared worst, falling 6.8 percent to $9.16. Citigroup Inc. led banks down, declining 5.3 percent to $39.79. If Europe's debt crisis continues to spread, bank lending could seize up. Banks are also expected to report weak earnings beginning later this week.

Of the 500 companies in the S&P index, 492 fell.

The euro fell against the dollar and U.S. government bond prices rose. The euro fell below $1.40 for the first time since May 23 and hit a record low against the Swiss franc. The yield on the 10-year Treasury note fell to 2.95 percent from 3.02 percent late Friday. Bond yields fall when their prices rise.

Markets seemed to be recovering during the last half of June. The last week of the month, the Dow had its best week in two years after several positive reports on manufacturing and consumer spending. All three major indexes were close to their previous highs for the year, reached April 29.

But the run-up just gave markets more room to fall, says Ralph Fogel, an investment strategist at Fogel Neal Partners in New York.

"When markets are at their bottom, they don't listen to bad news. But because we're at the top end, they listen," said Fogel.

The broadening of Europe's debt troubles follows disappointing U.S. employment news and a setback in negotiations over the country's borrowing limit.

The government reported Friday that employers pulled back sharply on hiring in June, compounding fears that the U.S. economy was in even worse shape than previously thought. The unemployment rate rose to 9.2 percent.
Weekend budget talks between Republicans and Democrats also stalled, raising the possibility that lawmakers might not reach an agreement on raising the country's debt limit before an Aug. 2 deadline. President Obama said he wouldn't sign a short-term extension to the limit.

"Markets don't like when they don't know what's going on," said Fogel. "They don't appreciate politics."

News Corp. fell 7.6 percent on Monday, the most of any company in the S&P 500, as its phone hacking scandal threatened the approval of its proposed takeover of British Sky Broadcasting, a highly profitable satellite TV company in Britain. The deal will now be reviewed by British competition authorities, which will put off a final decision for several months.

Wells Fargo fell 2.6 percent after the bank offered to settle for $125 million with pension funds that accused it of not warning investors about risky mortgage-backed securities.

Insurer American International Group Inc. fell 3.6 percent after saying it would fire one or more of the banks it used for its recent public stock offering when it sells more stock later this year. The move indicates that the company might not have confidence in its ability to sell more stock at a desirable price.

Gulfport Energy Corp. fell 6.2 percent. The oil and natural gas producer plans to sell 3 million shares to repay debt and pay for acquisitions.

Aluminum maker Alcoa Inc. fell 2.9 percent ahead of announcing its second-quarter results. Alcoa's report marks the unofficial beginning of U.S. earnings season. Aluminum is used in everything from airplanes to beer cans; the company's results typically offer insight into the health of the broader U.S. economy.

The company reported earnings after the market closed. Its income more than doubled as higher sales and prices offset increasing prices for raw materials, the company reported. Alcoa earned 32 cents per share. Analysts expected the company to earn 33 cents per share, according to FactSet. The company reaffirmed its forecast for 12 percent growth in global aluminum demand this year. Alcoa was down 0.4 percent in early aftermarket trading.

Several companies did post gains on Monday. Arch Chemicals Inc. rose 11.7 percent after saying it would be bought by Swiss drugmaker Lonza for $1.2 billion. Arch makes antibacterial products.

Chip-maker Microsemi Corp. was up 2.3 percent after an Oppenheimer analyst upgraded its rating on the company. The analyst cited a growing backlog of orders and improving profit margins.

LinkedIn rose 1.1 percent after web analytics company Comscore said that in June, the professional networking site was second only to Facebook among social networking sites in its number of unique visitors. LinkedIn had 33.9 million unique visitors in June. Facebook had 106.8 million unique visitors.

Six stocks fell for every one that rose on the New York Stock Exchange. Volume was lighter than usual at 3.5 billion shares



See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/cupeHD

[heelwinch]

Stocks fall after Ireland downgrade erases gains
07/12/11 17:15EDT
NEW YORK -Hope that the Federal Reserve might consider more economic stimulus wasn't enough to keep bad news about Ireland from sinking stocks.

Ireland's government bonds were downgraded by ratings agency Moody's to junk status shortly before U.S. markets closed Tuesday, sending stocks sharply lower and erasing the day's gains. Ireland joins Greece and Portugal, whose debt was also recently graded as junk.

The move puts Ireland back on the list of heavily-indebted European countries in danger of default. The country has already received a financial rescue package from other countries. If a European country fails to pay its debts, it could cause widespread disruptions in financial markets and lead to a slowdown in lending. Worries about debt problems in Europe sent stocks down through the first half of June and appear to be having the same effect in July.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 5.85, or 0.4 percent, to close at 1,313.64. The S&P is now down 0.5 percent for the month and 2.2 percent for the week. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 58.88, or 0.5 percent, to close at 12,446.88. The Nasdaq composite fell 20.71, or 0.7 percent, to close at 2,781. Both the Dow and Nasdaq are still up about 0.3 percent for the month.

Earlier Tuesday, minutes from the Federal Reserve's last meeting on June 21-22 were released. In those minutes, several Fed officials said that the government would have to consider new monetary policy to stimulate the economy, especially if growth remains too slow to reduce the unemployment rate.

That raised hopes that more economic stimulus might be on the way. The Dow rose about 60 points after the minutes were released, but retreated not long after.

Stocks bounced between small gains and losses for most of the day amid worries that Italy would need help managing its debts. A successful auction of new Italian government bonds and a promise to fast-track that country's austerity measures helped ease those fears. The news sent Milan's main stock index up 1.2 percent. A default by Italy, the third-largest economy in Europe, would cause far more damage to the global financial system than one by Greece, which is a much smaller economy.

Investors also felt some relief after a meeting of 17 European finance ministers Monday resulted in a statement that implied they were open to buying distressed Greek bonds.

"They are trying to staunch the bleeding," said Quincy Krosby, market strategist for Prudential Financial. "That has reassured investors that there are, in essence, buyers of last resort."

U.S. financial stocks rose as tensions eased about Europe's financial crisis. MBIA Inc. rose 6.9 percent after the company agreed to dismiss a lawsuit against Merrill Lynch.

Technology stocks fell following poor results from chip makers. Microchip Technology Inc. fell 4.5 percent, the most of any stock in the S&P 500 index, after the chip maker said it expected lower quarterly revenue and income because of waning demand from car makers. That pushed the stocks of other chip makers lower too. Novellus Systems Inc. fell 11.2 percent after lowering its own profit forecast, and Texas Instruments Inc. fell 3.7 percent.

Radiant Systems Inc. soared 30.5 percent after saying ATM maker NCR Corp. would buy the company, which makes equipment and software for the hospitality and retail industries, for $1.2 billion. But Central Vermont Public Service Corp. fell 2.6 percent after it announced Canada's Gaz Metro would buy the utility for $472.4 million. Rival bidder Fortis cancelled its offer.

International Game Technology rose 3.3 percent after a Sterne Agee analyst raised its rating on the company, saying it would likely sell more casino games



See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/cTDeNW

[heelwinch]

Stocks
BondsFuturesCurrenciesInternationalETFsDJIA NASDAQ S&P 500 10 Yr Note Stocks fall after Bernanke dims stimulus hopes
07/14/11 16:57EDT
NEW YORK -Remarks by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke that dimmed hopes for a third round of bond-buying pushed stocks lower Thursday.

In a second day of testimony, Bernanke told lawmakers the Fed expects the economy to improve. He said the central bank would only step in with more economic stimulus if there is a significant downturn in the economy.

"We're not prepared at this point to take further action," Bernanke said.

Stocks turned immediately lower after the remarks and fell for much of the day.

Bernanke was clarifying statements he made Wednesday that left the door open to new economic stimulus measures. Investors took his earlier remarks to mean that the Fed chairman had all but guaranteed new action to stimulate the economy, said Jeff Cleveland, senior economist at money manager Payden & Rygel.

"They realize that's not the case now," Cleveland said.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 8.85 points, or 0.7 percent, to close at 1,308.87. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 54.49, or 0.4 percent, to 12,437.12. The Nasdaq composite fell 34.25, or 1.2 percent, to 2,762.67.

It was the fourth day of losses on the stock market out of the last five. Worries that Italy could be the next European country to get caught up in the region's debt problems have kept investors on edge this week.

Google Inc. rose 12 percent in after-hours trading after the company reported earnings that soared past analyst expectations. The results calmed investors who were concerned that a leadership shake-up would hurt the company.

JPMorgan Chase & Co. rose 1.8 percent after the bank reported that higher investment banking fees raised its net income above analysts' expectations.

ConocoPhillips rose 1.6 percent after the country's third-largest oil company said it would split in two. One company will be an oil producer, and the other a refinery. Investors preferred two simple businesses to one complicated one.

Stocks started higher after applications for unemployment benefits fell to a three-month low last week, a sign that companies are laying off fewer workers. At 405,000, the figure is still above the 375,000 that signals healthy job growth.

In a separate report, the government also said an increase in car sales and a drop in gas prices pushed up retail sales slightly in June.

Stocks were also held back by a stalemate in Washington over raising the country's borrowing limit. Late Wednesday Moody's threatened to lower the U.S. credit rating below the highest grade of triple-A, citing the risk that the government might fail to make its debt payments if an agreement isn't reached by an Aug. 2 deadline.

In Europe, a threat resurfaced that Italy's government could lose control of the country's debt crisis. Yields on Italy's debt jumped to their highest level since the introduction of the euro following a bond sale. A debt default for an economy as large as Italy's would hurt lending across the globe.

Marriott International Inc. fell 6.6 percent after the hotel chain said it would earn less in the full year than previously expected.

YUM Brands Inc. rose 1.4 percent after the owner of the Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC fast-food chains said its earnings rose on strong international sales.

About four stocks fell for every one that rose on the New York Stock Exchange. Volume was light at 3.8 billion.

---

AP Economics Writer Martin Crutsinger contributed to this story.



See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/cTDeNW

[topgroove]

Just wait till next week when it becomes obvious the debt ceiling wont get raised. Look for at least a 900 point selloff in the S&P. Our 401K's are gonna take a beating.Government bonds and Treasuries are gonna be selling like hotcakes.

[duckhunter]

Time to move things around in the 401k for a while. I hope they stay deadlocked. We need to be talking about lowering the debt ceiling, not raising it. Now is the time.

[heelwinch]

The Democrats are allready having talks on how they can force it through without the votes.
So either way it will be a futile effort on the Houses part. Although I respect them for holding out.

[Highplains Drifter]

.................................................. .................................................. ...................

[neil macgregor]

.................................................. .................................................. ...................

or rob a bank

[duckhunter]

Why tax millionairs? Why not just tkae all their money and go from there? Because we are still spending too much. We should not be talking raising or freezing the debt ceiling, we should be lowering it!! THis is not on Obama thing, this is our elected officials afraid to say NO to spending.

[heelwinch]

Why tax millionairs? Why not just tkae all their money and go from there? Because we are still spending too much. We should not be talking raising or freezing the debt ceiling, we should be lowering it!! THis is not on Obama thing, this is our elected officials afraid to say NO to spending.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to saay that.... he supports it fervently.

[duckhunter]

Well I wouldn't go so far as to saay that.... he supports it fervently.

Oh, I agree he supports it feverently! But, we have to convince all the elected officials that this has to stop! Just think how big a 1/2% increase in the debt is. Most Americans are just now getting an idea what the numbers really are. We need to get serious or we will be like Greece and Ireland.

Too many people are too used to their own debt too!

[heelwinch]

90% of our national debt is consumed by social programs. Go figure.

Next year the Bush tax cuts will cease to exist, Obama care taxes will kick in and the capitoal gains tax will increase....

Corporate taxes in the US are allready up to 40%, Canada is at 16.5%... where do you think the business will migrate to????

Jesus this country is going to be ugly in the next ten years..... But you dems just keep raising taxes and supporting all the social and political expenses by raising the debt seiling.... that will make it better.

[heelwinch]

If you call 2 republicans that are fearing for the health of our country traitors....

What do you call a liberal that can't see through the smoke the president and the rest of his cronnies are blowing....

I have a few descriptive words that come to mind, but seeings aas how only liberals are allowed to call other people names on this board, I'll refrain from useing them. There are way to many people here that would enjoy nothing more than me getting banned. And I intend to see to it that I don't just to make them miserable.

[duckhunter]

I think they are getting their shovels ready.

Steve do you really think that I believe only Republicans are rich business owners? Every company has been cautious because of fears of what could happen. Even rich Democrats are careful with their money. You must believe that, or are Republicans the only job creators?

[heelwinch]

There was another thread which I can't seem to locate where SBUTTS was defending Obama's claim of having created millions of jobs in past year or so, now it sounds like you are blaming the Bush tax cuts because no jobs have been created.... which is it???

Are there new jobs or not??? Tell us oh great orator of politics what is it you actually believe.

[duckhunter]

The Bush tax cuts caused no mess. The problem is spending. The mess is from the ortgages that lenders were forced to make by the Fed. Then the Fed spent our money bailing them out. The Bush tax cuts are a small percentage of the"Stimulus" for the shovel ready jobs. The jobs created by Bush tax cuts are gone because companies are holding onto their money because of fear of the true cost of Obamacare.

Tax everyone over $250,000 at 100%. Then what? We are spending too much.

That is the answer you're getting from me. If you don't like it, move on.

[topgroove]

Yeah I guess no-one heard that great sucking sound thirty years ago. People seam to think corporations have some sort of loyalty to America. They say if we tax corporate profits these companies will simply move jobs off shore.
Its really not that difficult to see what happened over the years. Our major manufacturing industries simply kept their headquarters in the US and shifted opperations out of the country. Creative accounting allowed these companies to show huge profit losses in their US opperations, while generating amazing profits in their forign opperations. Take a few minutes and research GE and you'll see what I mean. Its a simple shell game. The house of cards is about to collapse and everybody is screaming its the entitlements to the poor thats the cause of all this. Well, sure you could say that, But what did we think would happen by outsourcing our industrial base. No longer do we have 30 million Americans paying payroll taxes, School and county taxes, supporting local businesses and keeping the wheels of this great thing we call the US economy moving. Instead of having US workers contributing we now have the Unemployed consuming entitlements. We've cut taxes to the rich to the lowest levels ever and watched spending to Medicade , medicare, social security, unemployment skyrocket. Oh well, believe what you want.... eventually even the ones who believe every lie they see on TV will get it broke off in their A$$.

[LostArt]

I'm all for advancement in technology and discoveries, but will the money used towards NASA help some of our debt/spending? I've only looked at the history aspect and not the economics. :D I'm thinking that will help a good bit. It's mindboggling to me how much we spent on that in the last 30 years.

[duckhunter]

The truth is there is no budget to see where dollars are going. Remeber, whether you agree with Obamacare or not, the cost is going to be huge, that will be tax dollars. I believe the money spent with NASA has had huge benefits for the world, not just the US. But that being said, we need to cut spending. Most of the government proams have good intenetion and help pockets of our citizens, but it's got out of hand.

Example: I have an unmarried niece with 2 kids by different fathers. She has a boy 4 years old and a daughter 2 years old. She got "free" cell phone for the kids. We paid for those "free" cell phones. The daughter doesn't even speak in full sentences and she has a government provided cell phone. There are too many programs like that. Social Security should have changed years ago as the population's life expectancy increased. It needs to change now and needs to adjust as our demographics change. Why does SS guarantee college tuiton to children of those who have died with minor children? There was no promise that those kids would have parent paid tuition of the parent had lived.

Let's go to a flat tax, no federal deductions for any person or buisness for any reason. Everyone pays the same rate. The rich will automatically pay more tax, that should make others happy.

[topgroove]

Why does SS guarantee college tuiton to children of those who have died with minor children? There was no promise that those kids would have parent paid tuition of the parent had lived.

Carefull what you wish for.... some of those who have died were members of the military. They paid the ultimate sacrifice to all of us.

[LostArt]

See? That's what I mean. Where do you draw the line? Who gets the help and who doesn't? Personally, I'm glad my brother is getting the help. He didn't ask for the bad wrap he got out of life, yet he understands that it's just what life throws you.

My point is the abusers of the system. And what I don't understand is how most of us can't see those that abuse the system. Those who some might classify as "freeloaders" It just seems like we could narrow it down some without hurting those that truly need it.

With all the help we have up in Congress, looks like a few would of figured that out by now. Just sayin'.

[topgroove]

How bout the 50 billion we spend on foreign economic, and military aid. Should'nt that be on the table? How bout the 700 billion we spend on the defence budget? Lets talk the revenue side.... do we really need a SS cap at $106,000. Get rid of the cap and we'll rake in billions. Do energy companies need tax breaks and subsidies? Seriously! How bout the tax breaks we give private jet owners? Shouldn't hedge fund managers be paying the same tax rate as us working stiffs! Lets tax political contributions at 50 percent. Lets end the loopholes that let corporations pay zero federal taxes. Lets share the F@#king pain shall we:).

[duckhunter]

And I think a flat tax with no deductions, loophoels, credits, what ever you want to call them eliminated for persoanl and corporate taxpayers. I also think everyone should have skin in the game. If everyone has skin in the game, the spending will get under control. But right now, too many people pay nothing.

[topgroove]

If we had a REAL flat tax with NO deductions at all-personal or business-we could finally have a FAIR tax for everyone!
Businesses could not deduct bonuses, so-called business trips to Hawaii, etc, political "donations," $2000 bar tabs, etc. They would spend their money when really had to, just like individuals running household accounts. If an ad man wants to place a ad somewhere, he calls up and places it. This country can't afford the perks of trips, gifts, etc., anymore.
The middle class is paying for these luxuries. The wealthy hide all their cars, vacation homes, trips, etc., under the umbrella of "corporate expenses," while the middle class can barely afford to take a day trip to a park, or have lunch at Hardy's. But if we were paying 15% instead of 35% taxes, we might even be able to afford a vacation!
But no politician has the guts to promote this, since it's big business that runs them. The several sincere politicians that have tried have been squashed and sent back home with their tails between their legs! And they don't have their nice, cushy CEO job to go back to, as many politicos do when they retire.
FLAT TAX IS FAIR, BUT THEN LIFE IS ANYTHING BUT FAIR!

[T-Man]

A Texan talking

Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want
steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”;

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of
the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before
you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem,"
consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for
doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.

[topgroove]

sorry but I wouldn't trust a politician from Texas ever. Before we rag on the poor why don't we take a good long look at the rich, shall we.:) This wacco from waco is sugjesting institutionalizing the poor not much different than Nazi Germany for christ sake.

I can't believe you would even consider such Bull$hit T-man. Are you serious""" Let's get this straight..... you mean , gather up the poor and house them in barracks? Put women and children , together in some sort of barracks with drug dealers, rapists and criminals. Maybe put barb wire around the compounds . wouldn't it be cheaper to simply install gas injection systems in the showers and tell them its for lice controll?


This great idea would somehow ballance the budget? Are you FU@KING serious?

Meanwhile , we maintain tax loopholes and taxbreaks for the rich and allow tax deductions for political contributions, and corporate jet owners???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!


Who the FU*K came up with this plan!

[LostArt]

Whoa. Wow, this went south quickly. :D

Nuttin' wrong with being passionate about our beliefs or our issues. It's just there are never any compromising being done or some form of agreement on things.

[topgroove]

Not sure about going south LA , but seriously.... gathering up the poor and putting them in compounds? Seriously???????? seams to me they tried that once before and it went really FU%King bad......... Its OK to debate and throw out ideas but lets try and think thing out first shall we.

[T-Man]

I guess it was making referance to people who live on assistance would get what they need not always what they want. As usual you took this as deep as you could. Read it again. . .No Xbox 360 on welfare etc. Or if that is what you want get a job. If you want your own home, work for it, if government has to supply you with one then atleast take care of it. . .Elbow grease is not that expensive. . .You could calm down a bit grove, relax

[topgroove]

Seriously..... did you read this nitwits plan? Build some sort of compound,,,,, at what cost???? to house and feed thousands of people? Do you really want to put women and children in some sort of government run barracks? Who's gonna run this type of facility? should children be forced into labor or is that only for the mothers. what do you you do with the men? Do you even know how little government assistence is?

[T-Man]

We have low income housing now. . . .

[heelwinch]

Let me ask you something. We extended those tax cuts, because the Repucklickons said they would create jobs. Well Where are those jobs? I will tell you where. Those jobs are in Mexico, India, China. Who sent those jobs there for tax breaks?? The very ones getting the bush tax breaks we extended to create jobs. NOW YOU TWO TRAITORS TELL ME DIFFERENT.

This was when this thread was taken off topic..... ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm whert shel we's doin abut it

[topgroove]

Plenty of jobs were created only not in the US. In the last several years Multinational corporations headquartered in the US have shed over 2.9 million jobs here in the US, at the same time they've expanded jobs overseas by 3 million jobs.


The middle class have paid for the loopholes and taxbreaks while corporations like GE pay nothing. We've basicly paid for our demise while the rich laugh all the way to the bank.

[Orgnizdlbr]

A Texan talking

Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want
steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”;

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of
the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before
you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem,"
consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for
doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.

And just who is this great American making this statement.....Jeez?

[topgroove]

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.


yeah, take away there right to vote...... What a ignorant moron. Piece of $hit. I hope this piece of crap gets testicular cancer and dies a slow painfull death:)

[T-Man]

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.


yeah, take away there right to vote...... What a ignorant moron. Piece of $hit. I hope this piece of crap gets testicular cancer and dies a slow painfull death:)

It says Voluntarily remove yourself from voting. Nobody said anything about taking away anything. When they feed and house you, wouldn't it be a conflict of interst to vote for those keeping you warm and dry? Isn't that like paying for votes?

I'm not trying to get ya'll wound up, but I haven't seen your solutions to any of these problems. Just some foul wishes for someone who is not on your page. I guess that's the Democratic way. . .right?

[Orgnizdlbr]

It says Voluntarily remove yourself from voting. Nobody said anything about taking away anything. When they feed and house you, wouldn't it be a conflict of interst to vote for those keeping you warm and dry? Isn't that like paying for votes?

I'm not trying to get ya'll wound up, but I haven't seen your solutions to any of these problems. Just some foul wishes for someone who is not on your page. I guess that's the Democratic way. . .right?

Yeah, voluntary all right.....if you choose to accept his version of assistance you forfiet your right to vote......voluntary my ass!!!!

To the author of this fine piece of literary brilliance I have a few questions:

Ever been on any type of govt assistance yourself?
Ever have a family member on any type of govt assistance?
Ever have a friend or coworker on any type of govt assistance/

If so, did you have the same opinion of them..............???

[topgroove]

It says Voluntarily remove yourself from voting. Nobody said anything about taking away anything. When they feed and house you, wouldn't it be a conflict of interst to vote for those keeping you warm and dry? Isn't that like paying for votes?

I'm not trying to get ya'll wound up, but I haven't seen your solutions to any of these problems. Just some foul wishes for someone who is not on your page. I guess that's the Democratic way. . .right?Why should anyone voluntarily forfit their constitutional right to vote? Should wounded vets give up their right to vote? how bout the unemployed? should seniors receiving medicare or those receiving social security give up their representation? Seriously? Does any one even think things out anymore or just blurt crap out? lately you seam
just like another hyprocraite. How bout we all give up our right to organize labor unions and all go to work for Pike! If you haven't seen my soulutions you haven't been reading my posts. A shared sacrifice by all is what is fair and ballanced. Sure cut my social security and medicare if it must be done, but I'll be damned if the rich get a free ride. For every penny cut in in entitlements an equal share will be raised in revenue.If it means corporate jet owners and mutual fund and commodity traders have to pony up so be it. Its time wallstreet and brokeage houses started paying their fare share too!

[duckhunter]

Doesn't it bother the heck out of you what a large percentage of our citizens don't take part in the process. How much different this country could be IF everyone made their voices heard.

[topgroove]

absoulutly.... A large number of Americans simply do not vote. I gaurantee every last bible thumping, rightwing,gun toteing, homophobe will show up at the polls.

[LostArt]

Hey, you left out liberals, tree huggers, straight folks, the lefthanders, and atheists. That ain't right. :D

[topgroove]

Yep, thats true, their are extreamists in both directions. The rediculous save the planet nutjobs, or the ones that protest anykind of developement. You could have a group of investors willing to build a 100 million dollar manufacturing plant somewhere employing thousands of workers and the tree huggers show up like a swarm of mosqueto's.

America is so God damned polarized these days that the extreamists from both sides are the ones that receive media attention. I think if you did a fair and un-biased pole you'ld see America is mostly a slightly right of center majority. If you asked 1000 random people if eliminating corporate welfare , loopholes and subsidies to multinational corporations to increase revenue was a good idea 900 would agree. Why the hell do we give tax breaks to corporations who outsource American jobs. If you want to give out tax breaks why not concentrate on payroll tax holidays for companies that employ American workers. Instead of simply throwing money at companies that employ thousands of lobiests focus on corporations willing to hire American workers.

Lets be perfectly honest. There's no way in hell The United States can posibly compete with the labor costs in India , China , Mexico, Indonesia, ect. These countries have zero child labor laws, minimum wadge, OSHA or EPA issues to worry about. All this globle economy crap is a bunch of crap. You want to put Americans back to work and raise revenue Tax the cheap crap pouring in from abroad everyday. who cares about repealling Romney care if you want to repeal anything lets start with NAFTA

[johnbellamy]

Baby boomers vote, again think about, Since W sr. , Clinton- Boomer, W.-Boomer, Obama-Boomer.

For the last 20yrs, Baby Boomers.

My generation and younger can vote, but alot don't, but we are out numbered by Boomers also.

To be honest, I think what is the point really, we realize and understand politcans are all crooks, the system is broke, nobody knows how to fix it, or the ones that know how to fix it, do not want it fixed.

Ya see it all the time, youth have no direction, but their options are limited, there are no jobs, you cannot keep up with the technology out there, it changes to quickly.

They want to be apart of something, and are manipulated pretty easily, so alot have gone green, to an extent, as long as it does not kill their buzz.

Alot of Baby Boomers made sure they got college educations, alot of that comes from avoiding the draft. But they became teachers, and could not help but push their agendas on students, those same teachers are still teaching, again they do not retire. They cut education programs, so where do new teachers get a chance to work, there are no jobs, so how many generations have been taught by Boomers, think about it.

Tea Party members, Boomers think about it.

Boomers will control the vote for the next I will say 20 yrs, and after that my generation will have to take it, cannot stop it, and have one hell of a mess to clean up, but at that point will say **** it why should we.

[topgroove]

Heres something to think about.... out of the $70 billion dollars in aid and reconstruction money the pentigon can only account for half of it. Since 2002, C130's with pallets of hundred dollar bills have been unloading at Kabul international airport. At the same time pallets of neatly bundled $100 dollar bills are loaded on to aircraft bound for Dubai. The Karzai government has blocked all attempts to track and account for the missing cash. It gets worse..... Over $100 billion has been sent to Iraq and who the hell knows how much has been sent to Back-ass-tan?
The American taxpayer has been ripped off and the funny thing is no one wants to talk about it? wonder why that is ????
All I hear about is cutting entitlement programs and never a peep about waste fraud and abuse!

[johnbellamy]

The cost of doing business, and tell me when the US Goverment has ever been held responsible for anything when tax payers money is involved.

Elections in 2012, the debt is just the hot topic now, social programs are always in play, niether side is interested in fixing anything, time for the market to crash, retirements and 401Ks depleated, and then some drastic last minute extension until it can be played out in the elections. Both sides are looking for votes, political posturing, nothing changes.

[topgroove]

Exactly... Its so God damned obvious the media focuses on issues that devide and polarize the country while issues involving waste fraud and abuse are swept under the carpet. Hundreds of billions of US Tax payer dollars are siphoned off the top every year. Politicians in Washington are so hung up on the next election spewing their silly retoric it hides the fact they're helping to steal billions every FU@King day. Hell , we can't afford the corruption in our own country yet we manage to make foreigners rich beyond their dreams. Just think how easy it would be to ballance the budget and reduce the national debt if we cut off all economic aid to foriegn countries.

I say FU@K it. Bring the troops home and let the ragheads fight it out amongst eachother.

[LostArt]

**thinks** What have I started with my Baby Boomer thread???

I agree Groove. Charity starts at home. We have starving families here. We have misplaced families here. We have folks that just need a dag gum job....HERE. Where do we start? HERE.

I'm at the end of the baby boomer age. Baby Boomer age is 1946-1964. I was about 10 yrs out of high school when I realized that some of my classmates never grew up. Still smokin' weed, guzzling beer, and partying every night. Those that didn't go to prison for drugs, had produced children, divorced, and left their parents to raise there kids.

Baby Boomers also produced the "ME" age. What we don't realize is that we only see the bad side. I'd like to think there are still some good to be done in this world and if it's the next generation, hopefully they (and we) will choose wisely.

[topgroove]

yep, That explains me pretty much.... born in 1963 and non-stop partying till 1988 when my job and my CDL put an end to that . I'm a baby boomer and never had to face a real tragedy till 911 where I lost some good friends. I never really gave a crap about politics till I got married and started raising my own family. This is still a great country and maybe all this constant bickering between the left and right will wake up the rank and file of this great country. We need jobs here in the USA and charity begins at home. Let Dubai and bejing start donating charity. Time we start taking care of our own problems.

[LostArt]

Now, if we can find someone that will run for office that will see what we see, what we need, where we need to be. And for goodness sakes, move on getting us out of debt. How can we help ourselves when we give to other countries? I'm as sorry as I can be "when bad things happen to good people" but like you Groove, I've seen enough happening to "good people" here in the United States. Can we even remember what "united" means? How can we help others when the need is here?

I still blame Congress for the mess we are in. It's kinda hard to blame a President when you see what or what not Congress does or does not do. The President is ONE......they are MANY.

[duckhunter]

the elected would take notice. They would almost be forced to operate from the center and not from either fringe. YOu can call the left or the right any name you want, but they have passion about their agendas. The middle of the road who don't give a darn don't have much to complain about.

I take that back, they may have a lot to complain about. But they have no one to blame but themselves if they do not vote.

[johnbellamy]

I think you can see, we give a darn, but know realistictly who are pulling the strings, and how easy it is for people to make excuses for politicans not doing what they should, knowing that they have corrupt agendas, admitting it and then saying dumbass things like it is "just politics", "want change then vote", "it is not a perfect system, but it beats the alternative", ect.

Vote for what? the lesser of two evils? It is easy for people to be detached from reality, billion, trillion, people do not care, it is how our goverment operates, our goverment, sounds funny because our goverment and its elected officals our owned by other countries, we owe so much to so many, our debt is beyond the point of repair, but we are I guess the new catch phrase is "to big to fail", we are involed in to many things, our lenders know it, we go completely in the tank, they loose, they know it.

We are not a small country like Greece, so why make comparisons other than to scare people, cause that is what it all comes down to, fear, terrorists come in all shapes and sizes, fear is why people vote for one side or the other, politicans are aware this, people who own the politcians are aware of it, for them to make their money use fear well, and mask it well.

By people not voting, and not showing up at the polls, it would show politicans that hey, we are on to you, we do not support the way you use us to justify your actions, you cannot use the catch phrase, "the american voters have spoken", so it is ok to do what we do, are actions are justified, we have your approval in doing so.

They would be exposed for what they really are, and polls would show who put them their. But in the mean time, nothin will change, and elected officals can continue to say we are doing what the American public wants us to do, they elected us, it is their fault.

[topgroove]

I have over $200,000 bucks in my 401K. by next week I'm gonna see that start to evaporate. If no agreement is reached credit card intrest rates could skyrocket to over 30%. If thats a scare tactic It worked.

[johnbellamy]

How many times does it have to happen? When you all figure out what a scam it is..........

Ya say $200,000. Ya can't touch that money until you retire or can prove hardship, but say you take a lump sum, at least $60,000 gone, poof taxes.

Now like ya say, ya see it comin, market crashes, poof what is that $200,000 worth now? But wait, just ride it out right? The market will come back right, poof ah shit it just happened to me again.

Now ya see, that money did not just evaporate, somebody got it, you know that, and the cycle starts over again. And remember, that is if your old lady didn't decide to run off with at least half of it.

Say ya die, want your kids to have it, bang, poof, inheritence tax ouch.

So what is that $200k really worth.

Just remember that you put in the full amount at the begining, I know pre taxed, but none the less, and in the end, you lose.

But ya can't stop what is about to happen to you, so take it like a man, cause you elected the ones in office, you voted for them, the American public has spoken, I guess it beats the alternative.

[topgroove]

Uh... no I didn't elect the teabaggers who are about to drive us over the cliff! These nut jobs have a gun to the heads of Americans and are ready to pull the trigger. How many times did we raise the ceiling under Bush? Wasn't it 7 times in 8 years... How bout Reagan I think they raised it 17 times durring that administration. All because the teabaggers refuse to close tax loopholes to the rich.

[johnbellamy]

Insane isn't it, but that is your majority of American voters, they want this, Baby Boomers, they are not focused on fixing problems, they are making a point, and they are who want to keep their tax loopholes, and so they buy votes from the ederly, who are affraid of loosing the benifits, and the moral right, and the gun owners ect.

They know what buttons to push, and the people who showed up to vote for Obama, well they are pissed off he has not been as far left as they think he should be, and the young demographic still are out of work, and do not understand that things do not happen over night. They just wanted to be a part of something, now they have lost interest.

I like Obama. He has shown he is willing to talk, and he is not so liberal on things, He had the balls to call out the rich, he got Bin Laden, he made the call to get him if they could, it could have went the other way, He is with drawing troops and getting hammered for it.

Bauchman, Palin, Romney, really? If that is what the American majority wants, set back and enjoy the ride.

[duckhunter]

Raising the cap will not stop our countries credit rating from dropping if we do not cut spending. That is being said by the rating agencies.

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

Who made that statement March of 2006?

[johnbellamy]

Don't be a Duckhead, You know Obama said it, you know he has had 3yrs, still dealing with Iraq, and Afganastan, how about the oil spill, Lybia, Japan, all of these things cost money, he extended W's tax breaks, how about all the extreme weather that has caused so much damage.

Just be realistic, there are so many things he has had to deal with, and since the 2010 elections has had no support only oposition.

So you want cuts, but not in the military right? You want social programs cut, ya want hard choices made, ones not made by previous administrations, you want the boarder closed, ya want a hell of alot in a short period of time.

Obama is willing to comprimise, he has publicly made that clear, the right will not work with him, it shows they are not be reasonable.

Look, I say let the teabaggers have it all, show us what ya got, run it into the ground, it is time to maybe start from scratch. But as a guy trying to look at it objectively, cause I got no problems tearin into anybody, Obama is gettin a bum deal.

I have spent a lifetime seeing Boomers run everything, could not change anything if I wanted to, so I get that, these are just my observations, the way I see things.

[duckhunter]

I have said all along everything needs to be cut. Everything. I can guide you to the post.

President Obama is not willing to comprimise, he told Harry Ried no cutting entitlements. Reid and Boehner had ideas worked out, the Presidnet said no.

[johnbellamy]

I talk in general terms, I see where my posts can be taken differently, I understand you say cut everything.

Understand I mean really let the tea party and the Republicans have it all, let them make the hard calls on social programs, let them keep the tax loop holes for the rich, let them fix things, I mean it, see what happens, and deal with the results.

And I will be able to hold them soley responsible, good or bad, I don't see good things happening, but prove me wrong, but a two party system does not work anymore.

[duckhunter]

I talk in general terms, I see where my posts can be taken differently, I understand you say cut everything.

Understand I mean really let the tea party and the Republicans have it all, let them make the hard calls on social programs, let them keep the tax loop holes for the rich, let them fix things, I mean it, see what happens, and deal with the results.

And I will be able to hold them soley responsible, good or bad, I don't see good things happening, but prove me wrong, but a two party system does not work anymore.

I really want to understand why people think a flat tax wont work. That is what the tea party wants. No loop holes, no tax credits, no anything but a flat percentage for everyone. The rich will certainly pay more in taxes. Other than IRS employees loosing their jobs, what is the downside?

[duckhunter]

There's the voice of reason that will solve issues!

[topgroove]

Actually, duck. Obama is willing to cut entitlements as long as some loopholes are closed also. Its the teabaggers who will not compremise

[electriklady]

from what I saw on the news tonite...the American people are speaking up and so far 62 percent want tax hikes for the 2 percenters, along with cuts in spending.....which seems to me what Obama is willing to do.

[Heavy]

IM telling you The right only wants to cut stuff out for the working people and the poor, the wealthy will suffer absolutely none . Its not fair for the elderly who dont draw squat to get there benefits slashed to shit and not ask the big oil company's to not give up anything( so called job creators who are not hiring anybody anyways), hedge fund managers , etc .

[electriklady]

Their goal of making the President look like a bad guy is only making them look like the arrogant a$$holes that they are.....and it seems that the American public is swamping the phone lines of these lowlifes that want to "break out spirits and our backs at the same time.":mad:

[heelwinch]

I would prefer that you didn't respond to any of my threads.... Your obviouos distaste for the republican party is pretty apparent with the foul mouth language that you and several others choose to use even though it is forbidden in the rules of this forum, having said that, it's fairly apparent that your only purpose on this board along with several others is to rid those that don't agree with your political position... And seeings as how you have gained the official title as a " board member" I would think that maybe you could conduct yourself a little more appropriatley.

So far you have rid two of them... who will be next... meter reader?????

[electriklady]

I will post anywhere I want to...........

[heelwinch]

I didn't expect any less... considering you are a " board member" ..... your privelges extend beyond those that you disagree with.... that's fine as long as you are up front with what you intentions are as a " board member "..... I guess there is no reason to argue with you, typical politician seeing there venue through to the end no matter what they preached to get where they are.

[topgroove]

I will post anywhere I want to...........
You go girl:D

[johnbellamy]

The way I see it is winch has a crush on EL.

Remember when you were 6 or 7 and was sweet on a little girl, and she would have nothin to do with you.

Well I don't, it was the little girls that liked me, so they would do things like kick me in the balls to get my attention, or take my ball cap and make me chase em to get it back.

He is being mean to her to get her attention.:o

It is really kinda cute.

[duckhunter]

Actually, duck. Obama is willing to cut entitlements as long as some loopholes are closed also. Its the teabaggers who will not compremise

Neither side is willing to compromise, and that is good. The spending needs to be cut, everywhere.

If he is willing to comprimise, why did he squash the plan reid agreed to? Because it's about his re-election.

[duckhunter]

from what I saw on the news tonite...the American people are speaking up and so far 62 percent want tax hikes for the 2 percenters, along with cuts in spending.....which seems to me what Obama is willing to do.

Name a person and have proof, that only pays 2% income tax.

[MI-Lineman]

I would prefer that you didn't respond to any of my threads.... Your obviouos distaste for the republican party is pretty apparent with the foul mouth language that you and several others choose to use even though it is forbidden in the rules of this forum, having said that, it's fairly apparent that your only purpose on this board along with several others is to rid those that don't agree with your political position... And seeings as how you have gained the official title as a " board member" I would think that maybe you could conduct yourself a little more appropriatley.

So far you have rid two of them... who will be next... meter reader?????

I gotta a good idea!:rolleyes:

Just sayin?:o

[electriklady]

Name a person and have proof, that only pays 2% income tax.



I was referring to the 2% that run this country.......you know the ultra rich.....no proof needed.

[LAMartin.CVEC]

hey guys can we take it down a notch?

just saying...

L.

[topgroove]

Name a person and have proof, that only pays 2% income tax.Two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes between 1998 and 2005, according to a new report from Congress.

The study by the Government Accountability Office, expected to be released Tuesday, said about 68 percent of foreign companies doing business in the U.S. avoided corporate taxes over the same period.

Collectively, the companies reported trillions of dollars in sales, according to GAO's estimate.

"It's shameful that so many corporations make big profits and pay nothing to support our country," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., who asked for the GAO study with Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.

An outside tax expert, Chris Edwards of the libertarian Cato Institute in Washington, said increasing numbers of limited liability corporations and so-called "S" corporations pay taxes under individual tax codes.

"Half of all business income in the United States now ends up going through the individual tax code," Edwards said.

The GAO study did not investigate why corporations weren't paying federal income taxes or corporate taxes and it did not identify any corporations by name. It said companies may escape paying such taxes due to operating losses or because of tax credits.

More than 38,000 foreign corporations had no tax liability in 2005 and 1.2 million U.S. companies paid no income tax, the GAO said. Combined, the companies had $2.5 trillion in sales. About 25 percent of the U.S. corporations not paying corporate taxes were considered large corporations, meaning they had at least $250 million in assets or $50 million in receipts.

The GAO said it analyzed data from the Internal Revenue Service, examining samples of corporate returns for the years 1998 through 2005. For 2005, for example, it reviewed 110,003 tax returns from among more than 1.2 million corporations doing business in the U.S.

Dorgan and Levin have complained about companies abusing transfer prices - amounts charged on transactions between companies in a group, such as a parent and subsidiary. In some cases, multinational companies can manipulate transfer prices to shift income from higher to lower tax jurisdictions, cutting their tax liabilities. The GAO did not suggest which companies might be doing this.

"It's time for the big corporations to pay their fair share," Dorgan said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/12/national/main4342535.shtml

[topgroove]

General Electric (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/general_electric_company/index.html?inline=nyt-org), the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010.
The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.


Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.
That may be hard to fathom for the millions of American business owners and households now preparing their own returns, but low taxes are nothing new for G.E. The company has been cutting the percentage of its American profits paid to the Internal Revenue Service (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/internal_revenue_service/index.html?inline=nyt-org) for years, resulting in a far lower rate than at most multinational companies.
Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore. G.E.’s giant tax department, led by a bow-tied former Treasury (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/t/treasury_department/index.html?inline=nyt-org) official named John Samuels, is often referred to as the world’s best tax law firm. Indeed, the company’s slogan “Imagination at Work” fits this department well. The team includes former officials not just from the Treasury, but also from the I.R.S. and virtually all the tax-writing committees in Congress.
While General Electric is one of the most skilled at reducing its tax burden, many other companies have become better at this as well. Although the top corporate tax rate in the United States is 35 percent, one of the highest in the world, companies have been increasingly using a maze of shelters, tax credits and subsidies to pay far less.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all

[duckhunter]

DO THE MATH EVERYONE ELSE DID, BONER'S PLAN WAS BULLSHIT. REEDS NOT ONLY CUT THE DEFICIT BUT SAVED ARMS AND LEGS GETTING OUT OF AFGHANISTAN.


YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT!
VOICE OF REASON??? 2005 2006 I TOLD YOU THAT cheny bush WAS LEADING US DOWN THE PATH OF DESTRUCTION, WITH IRAQ, AND YOU ANY YOUR GODDAMNED BULLSHIT ASSHOLE BUDDIES TOLD ME, ALL ABOUT THE GODDAMNED WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND IF WE LEFT IRAQ THEY WOULD FOLLOW US HOME.

THE ONLY THING THAT COME FOLLOWED US HOME AFTER bush CUT AND RUN WAS COFFINS AND EMPTY SLEEVES AND PANT LEGS, AND A 4 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT. THAT IS THE VOICE OF REASON AND YOU STICK THE TEAGAGGERS UP YOUR ASS.

NOW IF YOU FIND FAULT WITH THIS YOU BAN MY ASS.

One last thing you are still young enough to serve your country, but you're a CHICKENSHIT that wants his goddamned cake and eat it too, and let someone else pay the price of the cake. I WILL TELL YOU TO YOUR FACE YOU'RE A CHICKENSHIT, NOT WORTH PISSING ON BY ANY MEMBER OF THE ARMED SERVICES. YOU'RE A COWARD, AND AS FOR AS I AM CONCERNED A TRAITOR TO VETERANS AND THE MIDDLE CLASS.

No other person gets away with reacting this way. No one!

[duckhunter]

Two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes between 1998 and 2005, according to a new report from Congress.

The study by the Government Accountability Office, expected to be released Tuesday, said about 68 percent of foreign companies doing business in the U.S. avoided corporate taxes over the same period.

Collectively, the companies reported trillions of dollars in sales, according to GAO's estimate.

"It's shameful that so many corporations make big profits and pay nothing to support our country," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., who asked for the GAO study with Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.

An outside tax expert, Chris Edwards of the libertarian Cato Institute in Washington, said increasing numbers of limited liability corporations and so-called "S" corporations pay taxes under individual tax codes.

"Half of all business income in the United States now ends up going through the individual tax code," Edwards said.

The GAO study did not investigate why corporations weren't paying federal income taxes or corporate taxes and it did not identify any corporations by name. It said companies may escape paying such taxes due to operating losses or because of tax credits.

More than 38,000 foreign corporations had no tax liability in 2005 and 1.2 million U.S. companies paid no income tax, the GAO said. Combined, the companies had $2.5 trillion in sales. About 25 percent of the U.S. corporations not paying corporate taxes were considered large corporations, meaning they had at least $250 million in assets or $50 million in receipts.

The GAO said it analyzed data from the Internal Revenue Service, examining samples of corporate returns for the years 1998 through 2005. For 2005, for example, it reviewed 110,003 tax returns from among more than 1.2 million corporations doing business in the U.S.

Dorgan and Levin have complained about companies abusing transfer prices - amounts charged on transactions between companies in a group, such as a parent and subsidiary. In some cases, multinational companies can manipulate transfer prices to shift income from higher to lower tax jurisdictions, cutting their tax liabilities. The GAO did not suggest which companies might be doing this.

"It's time for the big corporations to pay their fair share," Dorgan said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/12/national/main4342535.shtml

Person, corporations are not persons. Corporations do not pay income tax.

[topgroove]

Actually, The Supream Court ruled that corporations are considered people

Where are the American people? Why are there not millions of people protesting in every city in America? Where is the anger? Where is America? I hope that the reason for the inactivity is that the American people don’t know what is going on yet.
There does seem to be a glimmer of hope on the horizon with the protests in Wisconsin and elsewhere. These protests are only about unions, however. When the governors all agree to the concessions the union gave, I hope the anger and protesting from the left doesn’t stop. I do hope that these protests spread to focus on the financial issues in this country.
When the Supreme Court decided the Citizens United decision in favor of corporations, they effectively put a for sale sign on Congress. The Republicans are busy shoveling money from the poor and middle class up their benefactors; the corporations and the richest Americans. The Democrats are afraid to stop it, if they are even inclined to stop it, because the corporations and their lobbyists would crush them with TV ads. The largest corporations donated heavily to the Republicans in 2010 and that is why the Republicans are putting forth bills that transfer the wealth upwards. It is payback and for future support.
Everyone knows that there is a quid pro quo between Congress and special interests, and yet no one does anything about it. They just apathetically accept it.
In 2010, the executives on Wall Street got total compensation of $144 billion. The wrecked the economy and they are doing better than ever. Not to mention they just got their tax cuts extended, putting a couple of hundred more billion in their pockets.
Meanwhile, the Republicans in the House put forth a spending bill that cuts social programs for the poor and the middle class. The Republicans are transferring more money upwards. They are taking money from those that will spend it, the poor and the middle class, and giving it to the wealthy, who will not spend it. If they do spend it, it will be in a different country.
The Republicans want the middle class and the poor to pay for the economic crisis and the debt it caused, while the people that actually caused it get off scot-free.
There are no investigations, no indictments of anyone on Wall Street. Even though almost every economist says that the meltdown could not have occurred without criminal activity of some sort. In the Savings and Loan scandal in the 80s and 90s 1000 people were indicted, and 800+ were sent to prison.
The actions that Wall Street took to cause the meltdown are continuing today. It is only a matter of time before we have another one. It is going to be sooner rather than later too.
Still, the American people sit there and watch while all of our wealth is being stolen by the wealthy in this country: Aided by our politicians.
Americans paying the most in the world for prescription drugs and health care so private corporations can make obscene amounts of money is a transfer of wealth upwards.
The rich having so many tax loopholes that they pay an effective tax rate (the tax they actually pay after their deductions etc.), of 16% is a transfer of wealth upwards. (They aren’t paying their fair share that then has to be covered by the poor and middle class in higher costs and reduced services).
Wall Street not paying for the financial harm they did to this country, while the poor and middle class do, is a transfer of wealth upwards.
These are multinational corporations for the most part and have no allegiance to America at all. I don’t blame the corporations, they are charged with making a profit, and will do whatever it takes to improve their bottom line, even if America gets hurt in the process.
The people, (executives in the financial market), that are harming our country are a different matter
It is the politicians that must take the blame. We have a complete lack of leadership in Washington DC. The politicians are not acting for the American people. 98% of the American people do not have a voice in Washington. That has to change.
How do we get corporate money out of our politics so our government once again works for the people? Publically financed elections. It is the only way. Our elections need to be financed by the people through their taxes.
How do we get politicians to go along with it? What do politicians want more than anything else, including money? Votes. Without votes, it doesn’t matter how much money is raised, he or she won’t be elected. The American people need to come out in large numbers and express their concerns. People need to start email writing, phone calling, and petition signing campaigns.
This is the only way we are going to get our government back from corporate control. The longer we wait, (it is going to have to be, and will be done at some point, regardless), the harder it is going to break the corporate stranglehold on the throat of our government.
Where is the America I used to know? Where is the America where people cared about others? It’s about time we brought back the great country we know we can be.
*Update*:
The budget proposal that the Republicans have put forth that cuts $60 billion worth of spending will cost the economy jobs according to Goldman Sachs: “Goldman Sachs economic forecaster Alec Phillips said the GOP plan could slow economic growth by up to 2 percent. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/24/budget-2011-republican_n_827543.html) Even a compromise deal, with $25 billion in cuts could slow growth by 1 percent.” This is going to cost jobs. Some estimates put the job loss as high as 1 million jobs. The article went on to say it could also cause a “double-dip” recession.
Still the Republicans are going ahead with their budget plans anyway in reckless disregard for the poor, the middle class, and economic recovery. The Republican Tea Party is using the budget to enact their social agenda.
Your government at work protecting the rich and screwing the middle class and poor; brought to by John “so be it” Boehner and the Republican Tea Party along with Harry “milquetoast” Reid and the Democratic Party.

[electriklady]

Actually I think the Supreme Court ruled a corporation is a person when they ruled on the issue of "campaign donations" by corporations. Ya cant have it both ways....if they have the same rights as a person....then they must also have the same responsibilities.

[duckhunter]

Well, I stand corrected, but I dont think they have the same rights as a person or a corporation would vote.

[topgroove]

Actually I think the Supreme Court ruled a corporation is a person when they ruled on the issue of "campaign donations" by corporations. Ya cant have it both ways....if they have the same rights as a person....then they must also have the same responsibilities.I'm afraid we're wasting our time EL:( DH will never see whats really going on. Congress is bought and paid for. Its the middle class thats been taking it up the A$$ for the last thirty years. The republicans keep repeating over and over that Americans don't want higher taxes. Its a bold faced lie! Every single poll taken shows that Americans support closing loopholes and subsidies to multinational corporations and subsidies to oil companies.

[duckhunter]

I do not want higher taxes. I want the same [ercentage for EVERYONE. If that means everyone pays higher, I bet everyone complains. There should be a minimum income level that doesn't pay anything, but 50% of the income earners in thic country pay nothing, 0, zero, nix. If everyone over $30,000 per year paid 15%. I think we would be in good shape.

But we cannot increase new "pet projects" for any side.

[duckhunter]

Kind of like Soros getting out of the headge fund business because he doen't want to follow the rules he pushed for?

I wonder if moveon.org has a vote? I wonder if Acorn has a vote?

[topgroove]

I do not want higher taxes. I want the same [ercentage for EVERYONE. If that means everyone pays higher, I bet everyone complains. There should be a minimum income level that doesn't pay anything, but 50% of the income earners in thic country pay nothing, 0, zero, nix. If everyone over $30,000 per year paid 15%. I think we would be in good shape.

But we cannot increase new "pet projects" for any side.
I like
Your opinion and take on things duckhunter, but people like us are just working stiffs paying taxes. The super rich are the ones congress works for. Tax shelters, tax defered dividends and loopholes are how the rich roll. If you open up your mind and look at things from a different perspective you will see they are just blowing smoke up your ass. Tax rates for the rich have never been lower. Thanks to the bush tax cuts and two unfunded wars we are in a deep hole. The financial meltdown created the perfect storm. Now the teabaggers are despretly trying to cut entitlements, instead of biting the hand that feeds them.the world is not run by governments. Its run by about 500 of the richest people on the planet.

[duckhunter]

What percentage do the "super rich" pay? Is it more than you? If they pay the same as you is that fair? DO you really think I want higher taxes for me and my family? I do not. But taking other people's money is not the problem. The reason the debt ceiling keeps getting raised is because the idiots got to DC and spend our money like it doesn't have consequences.

[duckhunter]

Do you really think it should be the same today as it was 50 years ago? With life expectancy as it is?

[heelwinch]

Nobody gives a damned what your sorry ass wants or don't want. You have posted in the negative since your first post and most of the time lied through what teeth you have left.

You foul mouthed, piece of dog crap, I wasn't talking to you.

[duckhunter]

See thats is the biggest goddamned republican lie of all. They pay sales tax.
They pay payroll tax.

They pay Medicare tax and social security tax. They just don't pay a lot. But, you live on thier income.

Do the poor and the rich all pay the same percentage of sales tax on what they buy? Yes

Do the poor and rich pay the same percentage on property tax? Yes

Do they pay the same for a fishing or hunting license? Yep again

Do they pay the same tax on gasoline or diesel? Sure do!

Looks like that flat tax would work.

[duckhunter]

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BIG OIL SHOULDN'T GET DRILL SUBSIDIES AND CORPORATE JET OWNERS SHOULDN'T GET TAX BREAKS? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING???

GEE! IF rush DRUGGIE (I have some one buying my Viagra and Oxycontin) limpballs finds out he will throw you out of that club he charges listener to belong. How much is that??

Do you remember when he played the victim about his sorry ass hearing loss?? Guess what the many side effects of abuse of Oxycontin is. Look it up. IT IS HEARING LOSS SUCKER. YOU'RE A GROUPIE TO A DRUG ADDICT.
WHAT WAS HIS PAIN? HIS BOIL ON HIS ASS THAT KEPT HIM 4-F???

If you read my posts, I'm consistent. Flat tax, no federal deductions for anyone for anything. What states do is up to them.

[duckhunter]

No farm subsidies. If you can't grow it and compete, sorry. It's out of control.

[heelwinch]

Nobody from the FBOD moved this thread when it went ugly with Steve FUKKIN Batts comments.... must be a Liberal thing....

[Highplains Drifter]

Do the poor and the rich all pay the same percentage of sales tax on what they buy? Yes

No the poor are paying a bigger percentage of their yearly wages on sales tax. I do b believe a sales tax is fair.


Do the poor and rich pay the same percentage on property tax? Yes


No, the rich are incorporated and any property tax will be written off for expenses and added on to what ever the rich are selling……so the poor are paying the whole load on property taxes.


Do they pay the same for a fishing or hunting license? Yep again

I’ll agree on this.


Do they pay the same tax on gasoline or diesel? Sure do!

The rich will pay the fuel tax at the pump but the rich are in business and can write off $00.55 for every work mile they drive. We all know how that works why not stop and get groceries on the way home. Let’s make every trip a business trip but stop and visit friends on the way home.

Looks like that flat tax would work.


Why would I want to invest a million dollars in a business if I could not write your wages off for working for me? With no write offs why would I as an employer match what you paid into Social Security every year?






I don't think so...

[duckhunter]

So the same percentage rate isn't fair, well at least that is a truthful and consisitent answer. I just disagree.

I believe people with more money spend more monsy so that they automaically pay more tax. Maybe they should just pay more for the item so others can pay less?

Property tax. All the rich do not have their personal property incorporated, that is too broad of a brush stroke. And besides, not all incorportaed personal property is at a reduced rate as a business would be. The property tax rates for businesses are decided by local and state government, not federal.

Gas tax. Too braod of a brush again. Remember, not all who are "rich" own a company to write off.

[Highplains Drifter]

You are a typical U Per, so closed minded and try to act riotous. Explain your definition of rich so we know where you are coming from.

[LostArt]

Uh....what is a U Per?

[Highplains Drifter]

Uh....what is a U Per?



DA YOOPERS GLOSSARY (http://www.usaring.com/yooper/glossary.htm)

[duckhunter]

Yoppers live in the UP or Upper Penninsula of Michigan. Trolls live in the Lower Penninsula under the Mackinaw Bridge. I'm a troll.

But I'd like to be more open minded, like you?

My definition of rich is someone who owns assetts (free and clear) of 5 million or more.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmm I bought me a lottery ticket for tonite n the prize iz 9,300,000$. Ummmmm if I win do I hafta start votin republican? Currently my net werft iz round 89 cents.

[duckhunter]

No Poot, you just have to buy a beer for everyone!

[MI-Lineman]

Yoppers live in the UP or Upper Penninsula of Michigan. Trolls live in the Lower Penninsula under the Mackinaw Bridge. I'm a troll.

But I'd like to be more open minded, like you?

My definition of rich is someone who owns assetts (free and clear) of 5 million or more.

To add....us that live under the trolls are "flatlanders!":cool:

[Highplains Drifter]

Yoppers live in the UP or Upper Penninsula of Michigan. Trolls live in the Lower Penninsula under the Mackinaw Bridge. I'm a troll.

But I'd like to be more open minded, like you?

My definition of rich is someone who owns assetts (free and clear) of 5 million or more.



I don’t know any folks that are considered Rich by your standard. I do know lots of millionaires and with inflation of today a million dollars isn’t much. One can own 160 acres of farm land and be worth one and a half million The sad part is if they tried to live off of that income they would be below poverty level! You live in the heart of the “Midwest Fall” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZV8fJrQ_98)and must see lots of poverty.

[LostArt]

I'd have to agree with Drifter. The assests would do alot of folks in. And you can't sell them if you wanted to.

While Drifter posted that, I thought if one family member on either side, mine and my husband's, died we would be in one fine perdicament. No money, but the assests would kill us. We have been willed the family jewels (property mostly)I told the Boss, "Hey, let's not worry about this. It's not happened and maybe it won't." And then a few seconds later I said, "Maybe I'll die first and you can deal with it." His eyes got big and he said, "You better take me with you!" :D

Yeah, I most definitely don't agree with that.

[duckhunter]

I'd have to agree with Drifter. The assests would do alot of folks in. And you can't sell them if you wanted to.

While Drifter posted that, I thought if one family member on either side, mine and my husband's, died we would be in one fine perdicament. No money, but the assests would kill us. We have been willed the family jewels (property mostly)I told the Boss, "Hey, let's not worry about this. It's not happened and maybe it won't." And then a few seconds later I said, "Maybe I'll die first and you can deal with it." His eyes got big and he said, "You better take me with you!" :D

Yeah, I most definitely don't agree with that.

The reason I say assets free and clear is because too many people have debt for assets the lender actually owns. That debt makes them far from rich. I don't feel 2 million in assetts makes anyone rich, that is not that hard to own with property values as you both described.

I do not consider a family making $250k to be rich simply because they make that much in a year. They could be if that continues and they don't have a lot of debt.

[Highplains Drifter]

No farm subsidies. If you can't grow it and compete, sorry. It's out of control.



Yes I agree get rid of all "Sacred Cows", no more low government loans to the REC’s. Let them compete in the real world of supplying power. This is out of control...

[LostArt]

Too many people live waaay beyond their means. And the US of A most definitely has.

I don't know the solution. Too many to count. In a way I understand the ying yangin' back and forth over our debt ceiling. But, we have never seriously tried to cut back. Although, I sure feel it in public education. I guess the future is virtual school. However, I've seen too many parents try it and their child just can't seem to do it. The reason is, the parent becomes the teacher, dean, parent....and has to pay for it. So, they are bringing them back to reenroll in public schools. It's a commitment on both to make virtual school succeed.

Now we are running public school and moderating virtual home school. I've not been a registrar in the last 7 months, but I was spending alot of time on the phone with parents whose child is on home school and wanting a guidance counselor to call them ASAP about it. We only have two GC's. 'Course this is only a small portion of our problems that have arised too quickly to solve the problems. Plus, we haven't hired back those folks that retired or resigned.

There ya go. Just a small piece of my area, and what are the solutions? It's not like many haven't tried, that's for sure.

[duckhunter]

Yes I agree get rid of all "Sacred Cows", no more low government loans to the REC’s. Let them compete in the real world of supplying power. This is out of control...

Sure, no more low goverment loans to anyone. I'm cool with that. Our co-op hasn't borrowed from REA, now RUS since the 80's. Just go ahead and punish rural America. God knows loans are the problem, not give away programs. Those people paying money back are screwing up the economy.

[Highplains Drifter]

Sure, no more low goverment loans to anyone. I'm cool with that. Our co-op hasn't borrowed from REA, now RUS since the 80's. Just go ahead and punish rural America. God knows loans are the problem, not give away programs. Those people paying money back are screwing up the economy.


Well simple economics should tell you that, it cost the taxpayer just as much to build a bridge in the remote rural area as it does in the metropolitan region of our country. The one in the metropolitan area will get multiple uses verse the remote rural one. I say if one chooses to live in remote areas of the country then you should pay more taxes to build that bridge. You are not being fair to your fellow country men but just thinking of your self and what you can get from the rest of us. The people that use a particular road or bridge should be willing to pay for its up keep and not wanting us to pay for your life style. Where’s your pride that your community can not pay it’s own way? I am starting to believe you squat.......

[duckhunter]

Well simple economics should tell you that, it cost the taxpayer just as much to build a bridge in the remote rural area as it does in the metropolitan region of our country. The one in the metropolitan area will get multiple uses verse the remote rural one. I say if one chooses to live in remote areas of the country then you should pay more taxes to build that bridge. You are not being fair to your fellow country men but just thinking of your self and what you can get from the rest of us. The people that use a particular road or bridge should be willing to pay for its up keep and not wanting us to pay for your life style. Where’s your pride that your community can not pay it’s own way? I am starting to believe you squat.......

If the bridge is needed and the locals want it. Of course if some politician in Washington decides that all rural bridges need to meet the desogn standard needed for metro traffic, we've got a problem. And if the rural folks borrow money at a low rate and pay it back, isn't that diffeent than just giving money to those rural folks?

[electriklady]

Do like PA does......if a bridge is bad.......they choose the safest side and put barricades up on the worst side and just leave it that way, with a stop sign at both ends of the bridge. They stay that way for years.:mad:....so I AIN"T paying no more than some city slicker.;)

[MI-Lineman]

Do like PA does......if a bridge is bad.......they choose the safest side and put barricades up on the worst side and just leave it that way, with a stop sign at both ends of the bridge. They stay that way for years.:mad:....so I AIN"T paying no more than some city slicker.;)

Just close'em down and still charge for the upkeep?:eek::rolleyes:

[electriklady]

Mike, are you a closet republican?....lol:D;)

[topgroove]

Mike, are you a closet republican?....lol:D;)Please.... any self respecting republican would barricade the bridge, apply for federal and state stimulius money, invest the money in tax free bonds and than vote to shut the project down siting government waste fraud and abuse. Of cource this would be after the contractor kickbacks and campaign contributions were handed out in brown paper bags;)

[230kv_barehand]

I'm a Republican but that is too damn funny!:)

[Highplains Drifter]

A cannibal was walking through the jungle

and came upon a restaurant operated by a

fellow cannibal.


Feeling somewhat hungry, he sat down and looked over the menu....

+ Tourist: $8.00+Broiled Missionary: $10.00+Fried Explorer: $12.50
+Baked orGrilled Republican:$100.00

The cannibal called the waiter over and asked,

"Why such a high price for the Politicians?"







The cook replied: “… Because they’re so full of

Shit, it takes better part of a day to clean ‘em …”!!!

[johnbellamy]

How many times does it have to happen? When you all figure out what a scam it is..........

Ya say $200,000. Ya can't touch that money until you retire or can prove hardship, but say you take a lump sum, at least $60,000 gone, poof taxes.

Now like ya say, ya see it comin, market crashes, poof what is that $200,000 worth now? But wait, just ride it out right? The market will come back right, poof ah shit it just happened to me again.

Now ya see, that money did not just evaporate, somebody got it, you know that, and the cycle starts over again. And remember, that is if your old lady didn't decide to run off with at least half of it.

Say ya die, want your kids to have it, bang, poof, inheritence tax ouch.

So what is that $200k really worth.

Just remember that you put in the full amount at the begining, I know pre taxed, but none the less, and in the end, you lose.

But ya can't stop what is about to happen to you, so take it like a man, cause you elected the ones in office, you voted for them, the American public has spoken, I guess it beats the alternative.

POOF..............:p