Phase to phase or phase to ground?

[MI-Lineman]

Which do you or your company use as a rating for things like gloving or sticking, phase to ground or phase to phase? We can glove 4.8/8320 off a pole because the phase to ground voltage is below 5k but I hear some policies use the phase to phase voltage thus being above 5k and don't allow it?

[kooman]

our policy is when the voltage betweene any two conductors is 5k

[T-Man]

Phase to ground voltage. We would never work two phases at one time.

[kooman]

Phase to ground voltage. We would never work two phases at one time.

we wouldnt either but if the potential for phase to phase is there then we cant be over 5k.

[wtdoor67]

No trained people would ever work 2 phases at the same time. Voltage rule? Always measured phase to phase as far as I know.

[rcdallas]

Our safety book refers to phase to phase voltage.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmm Itz rated for the highest voltage you could expose yerself to n thats Phase to phase.

[T-Man]

Before I retired we could work 5KV phase to ground, so you could do a buckarm transfer from the pole using sleeves and gloves on 4.8/8.32, But just before I retired there was a lot of talk about OSHA making everything you wern't working on within reach covered up.(not a bad practice but not always needed) All the 7.62/13.2 was worked from a bucket or diving board. 14.4/24.9 either worked with sticks or out of a bucket.

[BGJunior]

Here in Ontario Canada according to EUSA rules, we rate everything for the nominal voltage so in the case of 4800/8kv even if it was a single phase line you would have to wear gloves rated for 8kv,in my opinion the reason for rating it for the 3 phase voltage is in case you accidentally went phase to phase.

[MI-Lineman]

Yeah I'm not askin if anyone works phase to phase, if ya do I don't wanna see it or be around you when you're doin it, but I'm askin if your glovin rule from a pole for instance is the phase to ground or phase to phase voltage? I never realized some areas consider the phase to phase voltage for their maximum voltage to glove?

[MI-Lineman]

When I was workin....5-6 years ago, it was a Normal day, to work 7.62/13.8 off the pole in backlots, with 30KV Gloves and sleeves...and...a shitload of Guts and cover.

Was that in the companies work practices or procedures? I've seen you post this before and admittedly thought that was ridiculous but different companies different rules I guess?

[MI-Lineman]

Guess I don't understand your question Mike.

A backlot change out, of a simple, 3 Phase pole, with secondarys 7.62/13.8....Is that workin "Phase to Phase"?

No, I'm just askin if glovin 7.6 off a pole was in the company rules that's all? If you were with a contractor did the host companies policies allow for this?

Don't believe anyone would work phase to phase I hope?:eek:

[rcdallas]

I'm a tinkin it's that way due to the maximum potential you could be exposed to. That's my best guess.

Work two phases at one time? If your quick enough to work in between cycles AND are lightning bolt certified, GET AFTER IT!

[MI-Lineman]

Yes Sir.
Glovin 7.6KV off the pole Was in My company's workin Rules.

Interesting, we were employed, as a non union contractor, for Progress Energy, a union company. But, Florida is a "Right to Work" State.
It's a "catch 22" man.:(

Florida is a Right to work state. I honestly don't know if the Progress boys Gloved 7.6 off the pole back then, but I'm pretty sure they Didn't. That's why we were contracted. They very rarely did "Backlot" work. Let alone with Gloves.

Well I wasn't tryin to bring up the Union non thingy, just curious? Actually I tried that in someone else's thread but you didn't bight?:o

Anyway, there are some Union companies that do glove 7.6 off a pole or can anyway? Not all Unions make up the safety rules for their companies!

BTW, FOR THE REST OF YA, HOW THE HELL HAS THIS THREAD TURNED INTO A "WORKIN 2 PHASES AT A TIME" TOPIC??:rolleyes: MY OPINION, YOU'RE DUMB IF YA DO NOW DROP IT!!!:D

[rcdallas]

We are taught to glove 7200 off the pole here. I think you can glove 14.4 but it must be done off a baker board.

Don't know of anyone that actually gloves any 14.4 off the pole; did it once at a school...that was nothing more then just buzzing the line on that voltage.

[MI-Lineman]

Yeah I'm not askin if anyone works phase to phase, if ya do I don't wanna see it or be around you when you're doin it, but I'm askin if your glovin rule from a pole for instance is the phase to ground or phase to phase voltage? I never realized some areas consider the phase to phase voltage for their maximum voltage to glove?

Guess I kind of see the confusion at least in this post, is your glovin rule referin to the MAXIMUM VOLTAGE you can glove the "phase to ground" voltage or "phase to phase?"

That help?

[lewy]

I think this is getting at whether phase to phase or phase to ground voltage determines a work method or class of gloves that you would use. For us the most we can work off the pole is 5 kv phase to phase so on a single phase line rated 8.3/4.8 we can not work it from the pole. The same for rubber gloving we can only wear our class 2 gloves on voltages up to 15 kv phase to phase even though you are only working 1 phase at a time, which I am sure is the norm everywhere & even though the phase to ground voltage is well below the test voltage.

[MI-Lineman]

I think this is getting at whether phase to phase or phase to ground voltage determines a work method or class of gloves that you would use. For us the most we can work off the pole is 5 kv phase to phase so on a single phase line rated 8.3/4.8 we can not work it from the pole. The same for rubber gloving we can only wear our class 2 gloves on voltages up to 15 kv phase to phase even though you are only working 1 phase at a time, which I am sure is the norm everywhere & even though the phase to ground voltage is well below the test voltage.

Thank you Lewy for clearin that up! But we can glove 14.4/24.9 from a bucket with class 2s? We have no other (except our class 0s) class glove! That's what I find interesting, how not all areas have the phase to phase rating instead of phase to ground?

Swamp, why would you have to wear class 3s that are rated at 26.5 for 7.6/13.2, was that for added safety?

What about companies that have 19.9, which class do they use? Anyone here work 19.9?

I see it that glove ratings are as "max use rating" so to me that's the maximum voltage on the conductor you are workin on? I wonder if companies are usin the phase to ground voltage to keep from havin to purchase higher rated gloves? I'd rather keep it that way cuz I could see companies just buyin the highest they would need and I sure wouldn't want to use thicker dam gloves for 4.8 or underground work!:rolleyes:

Just curious!

[hotwiretamer]

20+ years ago we could glove up to 15kv. We have 7620/13.2 in town, and 12000/20.8 in our rural areas. We had to stick the 20.8. Our safety manual calculates the voltage Phase to Phase.
The Safety manual changed, and we can glove up to 25kv. When it changed, we went from class 2 to class 3 gloves. Gloving in class 3 gloves suck!! But it is what it is!
Even if we are on a single phase tap, with no chance of going Phase to Phase, we calculate the kv. by Phase to Phase voltage.

[Pootnaigle]

Our system included 34.5/19.9 and all we had was class 3 gloves.Had to wear them damn things to work on a streetlight circuit,.2300 delta, 2400/4160,7620/13.2 or the stuff they were designed for. No class 2's even though the most common voltage was 13.2/7620.Every thing we used was rated for the absolute highest voltage we would encounter.The troublemen were furnished class 0 gloves to work secondary.

[hotwiretamer]

Our system included 34.5/19.9 and all we had was class 3 gloves.Had to wear them damn things to work on a streetlight circuit,.2300 delta, 2400/4160,7620/13.2 or the stuff they were designed for. No class 2's even though the most common voltage was 13.2/7620.Every thing we used was rated for the absolute highest voltage we would encounter.The troublemen were furnished class 0 gloves to work secondary.

Thank goodness when the company emplemented the rubber glove rule for secondary voltages we were able to talk them into issuing EVERYBODY Class 0's!!

[Orgnizdlbr]

Yeah I'm not askin if anyone works phase to phase, if ya do I don't wanna see it or be around you when you're doin it, but I'm askin if your glovin rule from a pole for instance is the phase to ground or phase to phase voltage? I never realized some areas consider the phase to phase voltage for their maximum voltage to glove?


Phase to Phase, 12.470 = 15kv on our CBA, we stick everything over 15.....

[rob8210]

Does anybody remember electrical theory? Electricity is generated in a cycle starting at zero , going to a positive peak then back to zero then down to a negative peak. Take your basic 120v. This is called an RMS voltage ( average). The cycle starts at zero goes to a positive peak of 167v then back to zero and then to a negative peak of 167v. Its the same on primary voltages too. That means for 5kv it would peak out at 7kv. This happens two times per cycle . We run 60 cycle systems which means your peak happens 120 times per second. I have had fellas ask me to let them rubber glove 16kv/27.6kv with class 2 gloves. Their thinking is the gloves are tested at 20kv. When you figure out the peak voltage in the cycle it is 22400v . That would be above the gloves test voltage. Just some food for thought. Where I am , it depends on who you are working for. The big utilities say no more rubber gloving primary voltage off the pole. Safety association rules say its ok to rubber glove up to 5kv phase to phase off the pole. 5kv to 15kv can be gloved from an insulated diving board, or a bucket. Above 15kv bucket truck only. Everything is figured in phase to phase voltage

[lewy]

For us the max phase to phase for class 2 is 17kv, class 3 (which we do not have) is 26.5kv and class 4 is 36kv,

[climbsomemore]

MI Lineman is sorta refering to his companies practice of stating systems as the phase to ground voltage. Ask the folks at CE what a circuit voltage is most will quote the phase to ground voltage instead of the phase to phase voltage most of us would like to know. I started in a company where we called voltages by the phase to phase number... and was just a little put out when I realised they(CE) wanted me to do "4kV" work on a multi phase system that offered 8 kV at the pole top.

The 4.8/8.3 Kv system is the most glaring problem.... when you tell an out- of town hand the circuit is "4.8" k V" most folks would think that is some bastardised "4kV" (2400 to ground system) ... when in fact, the 4.8 is within 200 volts of what most experts agree is the maximum that should be worked from a grounded surface (off the pole or earth).

When I left, CE operated at least 10 voltages in 66 counties of Lower Michigan on distribution. If you go into their specs... there are about 7 wye and 5 delta voltages they stock transformers for (IIRC) The majority was 4.8/8.3.Y.. but you could get in areas that were 12K delta, 7200/12240 Y... 14.4 Delta and 14.4/24Kv. CE rubber gloves all of it without lined buckets.

Swampy... in Ohio... First Energy has a limited amount of work that can be done gloveing off the pole on 7kv-ish circuits. They have some extra policies and rules etc. But they are the execption to the norm.

[MI-Lineman]

Right on! That's what I'm referin to! Figured you'ld see it and jump in! Thanks! I just find it weird that some would glove 7.6k off a pole after what you said about 4.8/8320k!:eek:

[reppy007]

ive done it,i think our policy or rule was nothing above 4000 volts,and never two phases at the same time,but to be honest i dont want to see some of the guys doing it,being in hooks is one thing,rubber gloving and transfering primary is another,all lineman dont work the same,and its not worth an injury,work safe