where is the hardest ground

[reppy007]

My experiences have been limited as far as drilling holes to set poles in,here its fairly easy,until you get near the coast.That sand can be a nightmare,using two diggers to set one pole,and I have heard that they use some special bits in the hill country,where or what state has the most difficult ground to do this job?Id guess it would be in the mountainous areas,,,,,,,,Knowing that guys here have been to many different places,im just interested in what places have you had problems with,,,,,hills,steep terrain,swampy areas,icy areas,,,,,which is the worst.

[JD426H]

Some of the worst I can remember was Watertown,NY. We worked there after the ice storm in 98, near Ft. Drum, and rebuilt a line going to a village named Theresa. That place was nothing but a swamp that was full of rocks! The Ni Mo people said it would take 3 weeks to get the line back up. We rebuilt it in 6 days! :D

[hotwiretamer]

I did storm work in Kauai back in 92 after Hurricane Iniki.
Definitely the hardest ground I've ever had to deal with. Lava!

[230kv_barehand]

Here in Alabama the Red Clay is not bad, it can be soft as long as we are not in a drought (we generally are) but it is very workable in terms of not needing any rock bits and hand clearing can be fairly easy and we do it all the time (if anything is close by they want you to hand clear everything here).

Now the worst here is Birmingham Alabama without question. The rich neighborhoods are all built on the foot of the Appalachian Mountains, and it is ALL ROCK. It's not uncommon for us to dynamite here and that not even work well. They refuse to let you get trucks in there so you basically have to get generators and jackhammers and hire crap crews just to jackhammer all day long, just to hand set a pole in a hole that's not even deep enough.

South Florida when I lived there was horrible too. Beyond the horrid salt spray which eat up everything under the sun on the pole, digging in sand SUCKS! We had to get generators once again and drag them around all day everyday, and then use air blowers with rods and rod extensions that rushes air into the hole to blow the sand out from under the pole while you push it down with the boom because if not the sand keeps falling back in the hole and fills it back up if not.

Arkansas sucks when it stays wet (and A LOT when it's not). It can look dry and you drive a truck to the pole and once you break the ground after a few inches it sucks everything up and is like quicksand or mush. Sucks for hand clearing for sure.

[bren guzzi]

We've got it very bad. Mountain, 45 degree angles and more. GRANNITTE rock one hole.bog the next. Mostly twin( H poles) so we got to basically dig a small trench 10 ft. By. 6 ft. It can take a week to dig one pole hole. And we have to Drill the stays / back guys in.

But that's Scotland for ya. :)

They had so much land they had to pile it up to get it all in.

[lewy]

When we get into the Canadian shield it is rock, so we just hire a rock driller, it is on the front of a skidder with diamond bits & it drills are holes for us in less than an hour.

[topgroove]

I worked with a forman once who's skull was so thick You couldn't scratch the thing with a diamond tipped auger.

[bren guzzi]

We can't drill ours in because they are H poles and at the bottom of the poles is a large sleeper to brace them.... We put them up with the digger without the bucket. We four way stay it with ropes and bars.. Then we climb the pole to take the slings off. And atach the buckeet back on to the digger so he can back fill......

[lewy]

We can't drill ours in because they are H poles and at the bottom of the poles is a large sleeper to brace them.... We put them up with the digger without the bucket. We four way stay it with ropes and bars.. Then we climb the pole to take the slings off. And atach the buckeet back on to the digger so he can back fill......

What is this large sleeper at the bottom? The beauty about rock drilled holes is they do not need a lot of back fill.

[bren guzzi]

What is this large sleeper at the bottom? The beauty about rock drilled holes is they do not need a lot of back fill.


They are braced at the bottom to keep the whole structure in tension. As you can see the pole is braced in the middle with "cross bracing". In essence the twin pole structure is more like a tower. Its duel construction gives it much more strength. It enables to use lighter poles to achieve longer spans.. Also some of the poles ,instead of being under compression are actually under tension....... And the bottom sleeper stops the H poles pulling out of the ground.if ya look at this pic you will see that the wires want to pull the pole out of the ground. We are working against the terrain.... DEEP GULLYS etc etc etc....

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmm round here we call them either Bog Shoes or Bog logs.I reckon they serve the same purpose. Poles wont rise or sink wif em.

[bren guzzi]

Ummmmm round here we call them either Bog Shoes or Bog logs.I reckon they serve the same purpose. Poles wont rise or sink wif em.

Bog shoes. Is spot on Poontangle. Sometimes we've got to put two sleepers one way and two the other .... Then board in between to stop the whole lot sinking ....... We were taking down a pole awhile ago .. Dug out the bog shoe,unbolted it and we put a chain around the pole and we pushed the whole pole" 35 feet" completey into the ground. (Saved us dragging it out)... :(

[lewy]

They are braced at the bottom to keep the whole structure in tension. As you can see the pole is braced in the middle with "cross bracing". In essence the twin pole structure is more like a tower. Its duel construction gives it much more strength. It enables to use lighter poles to achieve longer spans.. Also some of the poles ,instead of being under compression are actually under tension....... And the bottom sleeper stops the H poles pulling out of the ground.if ya look at this pic you will see that the wires want to pull the pole out of the ground. We are working against the terrain.... DEEP GULLYS etc etc etc....

I have to ask, how long are your spans? How tight is the sag? What size & type of wire? What kind of up angle? The reason I ask is bi-sect tension is a lot less than line tension so the tension would have to be real high to pull 2 poles out of the ground.

[bren guzzi]

It aint all about tension........ Some of our poles are in the bottom of ravines. The top of one pole might be 100 ft below the pole either side....... We are using .4 copper. Pulled up to around 1.5 ton and the spans are around 400 to 500 feet long. Even a slight angle on a H pole makes one leg compression and one tension. When we run the wire it sits at the top of our "square rollers" because of the "uplift"........

[bren guzzi]

Some idea of the uplift. There is worse than this..... SORRY aint a better picture. Still waiting on my mega pixie camera I was promised. :)

[neil macgregor]

so glad i dont work there any more bren
your pics bring back a few memories alrite not all good
wouldnt swap ireland for that crap again
guess im getting soft lol

[reppy007]

They are braced at the bottom to keep the whole structure in tension. As you can see the pole is braced in the middle with "cross bracing". In essence the twin pole structure is more like a tower. Its duel construction gives it much more strength. It enables to use lighter poles to achieve longer spans.. Also some of the poles ,instead of being under compression are actually under tension....... And the bottom sleeper stops the H poles pulling out of the ground.if ya look at this pic you will see that the wires want to pull the pole out of the ground. We are working against the terrain.... DEEP GULLYS etc etc etc....

Bren how often do you lads replace those pre-forms at your dead-ends,we usually just use dead-end shoes.

[bren guzzi]

Bren how often do you lads replace those pre-forms at your dead-ends,we usually just use dead-end shoes.

They don't get replaced.... They are there for the life of the line. Once they are on "that's it"

Mind you they are designed for single use... "Never reuse preforms". :)

[lewy]

Yea we only use dead end shoes as well, more due to live line work. I am still curious what this bottom sleeper is? For us I would think if we had this problem we would just use anchors & guys, but can't say for sure because I don't know what a bottom sleeper is.

[bren guzzi]

Yea we only use dead end shoes as well, more due to live line work. I am still curious what this bottom sleeper is? For us I would think if we had this problem we would just use anchors & guys, but can't say for sure because I don't know what a bottom sleeper is.

Better pic of sleeper..... Its the way we design it.... Trust me its the easiest way of doing it. Getting stuff up the mountain by the helicopter ..... Its a balancing act. "Less is more"

[Pootnaigle]

Ummm lewy it can be made of several things . A common material is a large peice of angle iron bolted to both poles sometimes on each side and below ground level. I've also seen Channel iron used. In any case it provides a flat surface that when backfilled wont allow the pole to sink nor rise. It will also help prevent one from leaning.
Ive also used a short peice of an old pole and bolted that to the pole and braced it both ways to prevent one sinking on marshy ground. Basically it just provides more surface area to contact the earth

[lewy]

O.K. we have built a few 2 pole structures for crossing major highways, but we did not have to do anything like that.

[rob8210]

I have not had the pleasure of core drilling rock. I have a friend that is a small contractor that does it a lot. Eastern Ontario is quite rocky. When I worked in Connecticut we hired a rock drill mounted on a small crane with a huge air compressor mounted on the deck of the truck, this unit could drill holes quite quickly in rock. I remember him hitting solid limestone at one hole, only took him about 1 hour. The worst hand digging I ever encountered was in the west end of Toronto, the ground was like concrete. You made sure your spud bar was well sharpened so you might get an inch at a time. That was well before vac trucks.