Did it come easy to you?

[apprenticelineman]

Did this line of work come easy to you guys or was there stuff that made you say what the fu*k. I work with some great guys and ask alot of questions but I guess i cant imagine them not knowing any of it and theyll tell you they were born with it. So I guess my question is looking back on your apprenticeship did you open some of the books and say wtf! Ive never been a great classroom guy but i show up to work on time everyday and bust my ass. Sorry if this in the wrong section.

[topgroove]

Seams like nothing in my life ever came easy... I remember my first day in the line department. They put me on the digger truck. They were building a line extension setting poles. It seamed like everything I did was wrong. The chief gave me a hand tamp and said, I want to see your feet leave the ground with every tamp. Told me every last piece of dirt had to make it back in the ground. We set about twenty poles all in a row that day. By the fifteenth pole I couldnt feel my arms anymore, I was pretty sure I ripped something in my chest.

Somehow I made it through that day. When I got home I hit the shower and suddenly realized I couldnt raise my arms to put shampoo in my hair. I just stood their in the shower wondering what the hell did I get myself into.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmm speaking for myself only........... as an apprentice I had a hard time visualizing what the finished product was to be. I credit a lot of that to a very poor tailboard. However at some point something just seemed to snap and i went from "in the dark" to "tuned in". it seems now that it happened overnight although I am sure it wasnt.I do know that a whole lot of what I had been taught had no meaning one day and the next it all seemed to fall in place.Once you gain confidence in your tools and then in yourself it all comes together.At that point you begin to learn from experience. i have heard many folks say to learn by watching others and thats a true statement but conversly and just as true is you can also learn what not to do by watching those same others.Very often just the most minor change can make a world of difference in how well something can be accomplished with relative ease.Knowledge is gained over a long period of time and from many different experiences, some of em good and some of em not so much.

[duckhunter]

When you get to the troubling bookwork, you may need to run it past an engineer. Some of the book stuff will never be used by you, but it's important to understand it. Don't be afraid to ask the instructor, if you're having trouble, so is someone else. Ask a lead lineman or supervisor too.

[T-Man]

I remember January 2 1970 I showed up at the Service Center in chinos, leather chucka boots a sheepskin lined rough leather jacket, no hat no gloves ,no lunch. The foreman gave me a hard hat and a liner, some leather gloves and those big yellow knee high boots then put me on a crew. It was a Plymouth truck with a crew box behind the truck cab and there was a little window between the two linemen and me the boss and driver up front. We went out to the job where they were setting and framing new poles to raise the existing line for some sub-transmission built above the existing primary. But like Poot and Groove said I couldn't tell you what the heck we were doing, but I was knee deep in snow and colder than one of those witchy things in a brass whatchacallit. They broke for lunch and asked what I brougt and I said I didn't know I needed a lunch to bring. . . .Groan. . .The boss had us all saddle up and they took me to a fast food place for a burger. I was starting to get the picture.
That night I went to Sears opened a charge account and bought lined coveralls, a hooded jacket not Carhart but like that, I got some work boots (they had to train me to climb so hicking boots would come later) I got a lunch pail and Thermos, we stopped at the Grocery and got lunch stuff and the next day I was ready to meet the elements
The weather dropped to below zero and the union contract said we would not do routine work at that temp. . .That year it stayed below zero for 13 days and I spent those days in the barn
learning to tie knots, splice rope, make a set of blocks, get blocks untangled, learn all the tools and names of tools on the truck, where everything was kept because Chet the foreman would drill me on that stuff every day. . .I didn't get formal training at first but I did get lucky to have that cold steak and someone who gave a hoot about me and train me. I had a few days where I said to my self. . .I should have been a brain surgeon this sucks. . .As I learned the tools and job I was able to do better every day.
Remember a dumb question is better than a dumb mistake. . . .
Good luck and work safe.

[tramp67]

Don't forget that there is always more than one way to accomplish a task, some ways are better than others, you need to figure out what works best for you but be flexible enough to do things differently when the rest of your crew has a different idea. But don't be afraid to mention your thoughts on a particular method either. If you keep an open mind and a positive attitude, you will never stop learning in this trade ,and you will continually be refining your methods to become safer and more efficient, and with less effort from proper planning. As you gain experience, things will become much easier for you, and others will notice how little you struggle.

[Highplains Drifter]

Did this line of work come easy to you guys or was there stuff that made you say what the fu*k. I work with some great guys and ask alot of questions but I guess i cant imagine them not knowing any of it and theyll tell you they were born with it. So I guess my question is looking back on your apprenticeship did you open some of the books and say wtf! Ive never been a great classroom guy but i show up to work on time everyday and bust my ass. Sorry if this in the wrong section.

Are you struggling with the book part of the trade or learning the actual work? When I did my apprenticeship they where not pushing the knowledge they want you to learn in the classroom of today. Hopefully some of the younger lineman on this board will be able to answer your question. As far as the physical aspect of this trade I grew up on farm and by the time I was 14 I was working along side of my Dad daily, the equipment in line work was easy for me to run also from coming off of a farm. I don’t believe anyone was born a natural lineman, but the funny part is I still open up my books when I want to research something. Of course when I am in a lazy mood I will ask an apprentice to find the answer I am looking for, even if I already know it. :rolleyes:

[T-Man]

The difference between the oldtimers and the new ladds entering the trade is the companies eliminated the "Tribal Knowledge" where the information was mostly passed along my being tutored by an experianced lineman. Yes we had rules and standards but things need some massaging once in a while and it was up to the foreman to come up with a plan that was safe and would work. Now with all the lawyers and law suits the "Ties" the don't want the trouble and have no real clue as to what a lineman does. They want everything in writting and passed along in book form. I trained for twelve years and even though I tried to put every word I taught in writting I just couldn't capture all the common sense and every answer to everything a lineman or Troubleshooter can encounter. But the boss wanted everything in writting so if someone did something that caused a problem The "Tie" could go to a book read what should have happened and then wash their hands and say they didn't follow our procedure or training. . . .This bothered the most. It took away the responsibility of our crews (and Ties) to know and understand the system. If it wasn't in a book then we don't do it till the Boss makes the call. Then it comes back to training and a new bunch of solutions needed to be written and added. No room for creative thinking and less of an impetis to find a safe way to operate. Now with everything in a book anyone that can read can do this work. Anyone can run a crew with minimum years experiance . . .It used to take 15 -20 years to run a crew, now leads are made in 3-5 years seniority. Not enough time in my opinion to have all the knowledge you need to work safe and run a crew, even if everything is in writting. With three man crews a Lead has little time to review written work procedures and get it right.
I'm ranting sorry

[apprenticelineman]

Thanks for the responses love the work and learning new stuff and the guys i work with stress that its repetitive and not to get complacent thats how you get hurt and hurt other people. The book work is my main problem its just easier for me to learn hands on then on a white board.

[topgroove]

Thanks for the responses love the work and learning new stuff and the guys i work with stress that its repetitive and not to get complacent thats how you get hurt and hurt other people. The book work is my main problem its just easier for me to learn hands on then on a white board.

Get that book out and throw us some questions. I love electrical theory!

[apprenticelineman]

Heres one of the questions in my workbook?







In a DC circuit, the current is inversely proportional to the voltage and directly proportional to the resistance.

True

False

[apprenticelineman]

Are you struggling with the book part of the trade or learning the actual work? When I did my apprenticeship they where not pushing the knowledge they want you to learn in the classroom of today. Hopefully some of the younger lineman on this board will be able to answer your question. As far as the physical aspect of this trade I grew up on farm and by the time I was 14 I was working along side of my Dad daily, the equipment in line work was easy for me to run also from coming off of a farm. I don’t believe anyone was born a natural lineman, but the funny part is I still open up my books when I want to research something. Of course when I am in a lazy mood I will ask an apprentice to find the answer I am looking for, even if I already know it. :rolleyes:


The physical work isnt my problem i didnt grow up on a farm but have been doing masonry work and carpentry work with my dad since i was a little kid and i love running equipment, got my class A and NCCCO crane cert for fixed cab and swing cab and always volunteer to run anything when im on the ground. My problem i guess is translating what we learn in class and using it in the field or on the job and was wondering if anybody else had that problem. I have good grades in class but thats probably due to just searching for answers.

[94_sahara]

Heres one of the questions in my workbook?







In a DC circuit, the current is inversely proportional to the voltage and directly proportional to the resistance.

True

False

Let's see, P=V*I = I^2*R = I*I*R therefore V=I*R so:

I=V/R

which means:

as voltage increases, Current increases (ie. 3/4=0.75 which is greater than 2/4=0.5), and
as resistance increases, current decreases (ie. 2/4=0.5 which is greater than 2/8=0.25).

This makes current proportional to voltage, and inversely proportional to resistance.

...I think, from what I remember from high school physics.

So your answer would be false.

Someone feel free to prove me wrong though.

[topgroove]

Heres one of the questions in my workbook?







In a DC circuit, the current is inversely proportional to the voltage and directly proportional to the resistance.

True

False

The answer is false..... current is directly proportional to voltage and inversely proportional to resistance.

Its a play on olms law and trying to trip you up by mixing up words.

A Series Circuit has a current I = 10ma flowing through a resistor R1 = 5K olms What is the voltage of the Voltage Source Vs ?
Using Ohm's Law:

V = I x RWe can substitute the values for the current I and the resistance R1 in the above equation.

V = 10 mA x 5 Kohms = 50 VoltsNotice if you increase the resistance you will see a decrease in current... or if

You decrease resistance you will see an increase in current.

[topgroove]

Hey keep those questions comming.

[topgroove]

Let's see, P=V*I = I^2*R = I*I*R therefore V=I*R so:

I=V/R

which means:

as voltage increases, Current increases (ie. 3/4=0.75 which is greater than 2/4=0.5), and
as resistance increases, current decreases (ie. 2/4=0.5 which is greater than 2/8=0.25).

This makes current proportional to voltage, and inversely proportional to resistance.

...I think, from what I remember from high school physics.

So your answer would be false.

Someone feel free to prove me wrong though.

Hey, nice job sahara! we'll get this guy through this!

[94_sahara]

Hey, nice job sahara! we'll get this guy through this!

Thanks, and definitely, keep em coming, this is good practice for me too. BC Hydro just posted their openings for this years apprentices here so hopefully I'll be putting this stuff to good use soon :)

[apprenticelineman]

In order to measure current, the __?__ must be placed in series with the component for which the current is to be measured.

[apprenticelineman]

In a series circuit, the total voltage dropped across all of the loads is equal to the __?__

[94_sahara]

In order to measure current, the __?__ must be placed in series with the component for which the current is to be measured.

Well I'd like to say multimeter, but that's a household term i think, so my final answer is ammeter.


In a series circuit, the total voltage dropped across all of the loads is equal to the __?__

Hmm can't recall my voltage drop stuff, gonna need some help on this one. (back EMF?)

[apprenticelineman]

That actually helped the wording is what was confusing me thanks grove and everyone else

[topgroove]

Ok this should be an easy one for you, so I'm not gonna spoon feed the answers to you... lets break it down . Measure current.... what kind of devise do we use to measure current.

what unit of measure do we use for current?

Do we know the difference between series and parrallel?

We know the answer is two words... something, something
C'mon bro you can get this one.

[topgroove]

In a series circuit, the total voltage dropped across all of the loads is equal to the __?__

Ok this one is getting into the meat and potatoes.

In a series circuit if you took a voltage meter and measured across each resistor you would see a difference in potential or what we call voltage or in this case voltage drop ... if you added up the voltage across each resistor wouldn't you get the total voltage or in this case the term would be ...........supply voltage.


To make things easy, lets say you had a 12 volt battery and 4 led light bulbs wired in series. if we took a volt meter and measured across each led and read 3 volts... wouldn't it make sence that if we added up 3 volts times four we would get 12 volts.... or our supply voltage?

[topgroove]

C'mon Bro.... Its a perfect day to hit the books. Don't quit on me now!

[topgroove]

If the applied voltage Vs is 85 Volts and R1 = 9K olms , solve for the circuit current:

a. 10 Ahttp://ccengmiami.com/assets/images/SimpleCircuit.jpg
b. 765 KA
c. 9.44 mA
d. 106 A

Just a little side note.... notice how the flow of electrons in this simple DC circuit is from the negative side of the battery and it flows through the resistor and ends up on the positive side of the battery. The negative side is called the cathode and the positive side is called the anode. current flow is just the oppisite of electron flow

[topgroove]

uh oh ... looks like someone skipped class today.

[94_sahara]

If the applied voltage Vs is 85 Volts and R1 = 9K olms , solve for the circuit current:


I=Vs/R1

I=??
Vs=85 Volts
R1=9000 Ohms

I=85/9000=0.00944 -or- 9.44mA

[topgroove]

I=Vs/R1

I=??
Vs=85 Volts
R1=9000 Ohms

I=85/9000=0.00944 -or- 9.44mAyou are correct again sahara.

I'm a little worried about apprentice though....to get through this stuff you gotta have a firm grasp on olms law. this stuff is like a foundation to build on.

unless you make up your mind to go all in you'll never achieve sucsess. Its pretty clear that you learned this stuff perfectly sahara.

[94_sahara]

My best advice if you don't understand something would be to never say to yourself "I don't get this," instead say "I will get this." And like you're doing here, ask questions. Sometimes one person will explain something one way and it won't make a lick of sense, but then somebody else puts a different spin on it and it's clear as glass. If you don't understand something one way, keep looking.

Here's a good website for explaining electrical theory, the link is to a page about ohm's law:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/ohm_law.html

[rcdallas]

I forget a lot of that stuff. Sure I can tell you that voltage is the force of electrons and current is the flow of electrons and I=current; E=voltage; P=watts the difference between a series and parallel circuit.

I can also wire a single phase 120/240 house transformer. :p

BUT really? Puke :o

Your killing me!

[rcdallas]

but yes you must learn theory...some of it does come into play later on down the road - I use ohm's law not everyday, but every now and then I'll have to calculate something.

Had a battle once with an older journeyman who was trying to tell me 480 volts consumed less electricity - then I busted out the I*E=P on him ;)

[topgroove]

Had a battle once with an older journeyman who was trying to tell me 480 volts consumed less electricity - then I busted out the I*E=P on him ;)

I will say this...with a 480 volt motor and a 120 volt motor running side by side with the exact same load on them,,, the 120 volt motor will feel warmer! Heat is waste!

[climbsomemore]

the work never bothered me too much. I'd been in farm and construction work before I caught on the power company. Theory? 6 years inside (app and 2 years JW) did not hurt.

Some days... visualizing how things would work out is a little tough... rebuild a section while keeping load on...cut this ...mack that... open here... jumper this ...got it? That can be a little tough. After a while you learn to eat the elephant...one bite at a time.

I can tell you there were days I would have killed my lineman or working foreman for a nickle. Most of those guys were top drawer, but we did have a few deadbeats who where always suprised when a plan worked out... very hard to work for...