What is in the future for this trade?

[LostArt]

I've been hearing for years that there needs to be more linemen. It sounds like we had a gap in the years where there weren't many stepping in to learn linework. So, there are lineman schools to go to now and yet these guys can't get into the trade.

Just reading some of your threads/posts, it sounds like there will be a mass amount of linemen retiring and not enough to step up to take their places. I know that the utilities or co-ops would be different---maybe smaller to see. And from what I read from Canada and overseas, it's the same.

I just wanted to know what you all thought needs to be done? Or your opinion on what is going to happen if some of our power companies aren't getting the whole picture.

Any thoughts?

[T-Man]

The slow down in the economy is a big factor in the rate of hiring linehands. Companies slow down at hiring making gaps in the flow of new people.IMO it takes maybe 4-6 years to get a good confident lineman up to speed, and the sad part is around 6 years into the business of line work, workers get complacent (feel too comfortable) and have accidents. So crews need to be seasoned to a point that they can keep the newest people thinking safely. With smaller crews there is less room for anyone to be watching the new guys and there is more expectation the new guy can get it done. There is more constant training, but they need to be in the field working not at training classes all the time.

On one hand you can't keep adding people to your work force when the money flow slows down. On the other hand when you leave gaps in getting people up to speed you run into the current problem, which by the way has been known for the last 6-8 years now maybe longer. You get less expieriance doing a rather dangerous job.

Now there is even more distraction from the actual work with all the computer data input that needs to be done by the lead person so it knocks down the amount of work that gets done and less eyes on their brothers working in some cases

About 8 years ago I read an article saying that there would be a 50%+ turnover due to retirement age of lineworkers right about know. The companies read those articles too so they know there woud be a time to get new people on board and up to speed.

I see an even younger less expierianced work force being used to do work that requires knowlege of the safety rules, repitition on doing complicated jobs, good well thought out mechanical abilities and enough time doing the job they can see the hidden traps this work presents and keep themselves and their crew out of danger.

I'm not saying it can't be done, there's just a lot of eggs in one basket if ya know what I mean.

[reppy007]

I dont know if this is a good topic or not,matter of fact I was thinking of posting the same one. T-man had a good response i thought,and lot of this is due to the slow economy.............on the other hand ive seen this coming for years,about 16 yrs atleast......worked years without apprentices and helpers,only jys.........and then on the flip side Poot hit the nail on the head when he more or less mentioned greed........I remember a long time ago when a good CEO left our company,this basically no/name came in and screwed it all up,royally.........rumors had it that the new guy was a bean counter.....later I found out that name was way too good to describe him.....everything went down hill from there and even is worse now that he is gone......just to let you guys know the second Ceo was let go...poor performance they said......basically fired,but with a 12 million dollar firing bonus,sad isnt it..matter of fact darn right sorry...........Years ago when World Com...then Enron and others collapsed people thought this might be a lesson and that big companies would change.........but that wasnt to be,it only got worse........who knows how many more are crooked that havent been caught.....these people can care a less about lineman or the working man,my world and your world is way different than theirs is.........I wish the trade would flourish,but I know the economy will need to improve,it may be years............ I too hear about these line schools that seem like they promise alot and deliver less.....do I trust them..........no............but people are spending big bucks and they are still in business.........I can go on and on but I need to be somewhere in a few............but the question still remains......what exactally is the future of linework........I do know that whats going on is wrong and that they are good people not speaking up......and when you dont speak up there is no solidarity,and things just get worse,,,,,,and worse.

[T-Man]

I don't beat down line schools they do a good service. But. . .It's like making Chicken soup, waving the chicken around in hot water for a little bit isn't the same as good soup if ya let that baby cook awhile. Line school introduces the youngin to the business, they need time on the job to get good.

[lineman]

I think this all started back in the nineties when most of the utilities decided to let the other utilities train the apprentice and then hire them away. That was fine for a few until everybody did it. For about ten years nobody trained apprentice. During all of this we also had the deregulation disaster.
No one was training apprentice so now they are trying to play catch up by lowering the bar (fall restraint is one way. You don’t need to know how to climb anymore) just so they can get warm bodies up there…. I think we are getting into some pretty scary times ahead for the young guys.

[duckhunter]

There are 3 or 4 1-year programs in Michigan spread throughout the state that are basically a Utility Tech program. They are usually considered a second step apprentice depending on who hires them and what type of program they go into. All those programs are full and graduates are getting jobs at graduation. I think you people who are proud, hard-working individuals have been very successful finding out about these schools and finding work after graduation.

There is somewhat of a disconnect from some graduates compared to other generations. Many of our younger guys do not want to work more than 40 hours per week. And because they are paid well enough, they do not seek out the overtime. The exception is the younger employees with families. They tend to seek all the OT they can get. I know some of the folks that post here work a shift different from the typical 8-4:30. I believe that will come to all utilities eventualy.

I'm on an apprenticeship commitee that evaluates between 60-90 apprentices. There are plenty of people getting into the trade, my biggest concern is that they won't have enough time with the experienced guys before they retire. We have a pretty good spread in ages at our place, but I see huge gaps in other utilites in the apprentice program.

[gumbo]

From what I see as a contractor, the utilities are letting the contractors train the linemen--then they hire them away from us. It has gotten so bad that in recent years the JATC has instituted a rule that young linemen must spend at least 5 years as a contractor or pay back a prorated amount of the cost of their training. Many of these utilities will pay this cost for them as a bonus.

The contractors are fighting this by making many of these younger linemen foreman within weeks of topping out. This is happenning all over the country, and it is not a good thing. APs go from having no responsibility...(not my fault, I'm just an apprentice)....to having all the responsibility. Most times not taking advantage of the senior men on their crews experience. On some crews it gets pretty bad. Corners are cut by these guys because it's the way they were taught..... to cut corners. We don't seem to have the time to teach our young linemen the proper way to do the work, it's all giddy ap giddy ap these days. You have to know the proper way to do things before you go cutting corners.

Plus, as Lineman stated earlier......you don't even have to know how to climb anymore. I've worked for contractors that wouldn't buy rope because they couldn't test it anually. No one buys hot boots any more because you can't test them. Be an insurance representative or a safety man is the way to get ahead in this trade. They are easing the lineman out of the picture.


Back when I started this trade as a grunt in the 70s, all the old men were saying "it's sure not like it used to be"......I was having a blast, myself. Now, after 33 years, I find myself saying the same line..."it's sure not like it used to be".......kind of makes one wonder.....it sure must have been a hoot in the old days. :cool:

[HookinAintEasy]

Ive been waiting for someone to post about this! As a young guy hearing about retierments excits me maybe my dream job will pop up soon but at the same time from hearing you guys talk it also scares me!:nightmare: I want to be able to learn from the older seasoned linehands that will take the time to teach you everything the right way without any short cuts! Sometimes I think I know enough to keep myself safe but thats the thing about linework you never stop learning... I hope utilities realize and bring new guys in! As far as young guys not wanting to work over 40 im 23 and want to bust my ass work as many hours as I can!

[bren guzzi]

In the uK. They are "enabling" us to work up untill we are 70 .... I'm strugling and I aint even 50 yet. :(

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmm another factor is there has been a big change in our culture. I see way too many young guys content to sit on a trailer tongue while a 50 yr old guy tools up to do sumpin they should be doin just for the experience. And as mentioned earlier a young un put in charge and paying no heed to the more experienced guys actually doing the work.
Just as Companies have learned that all they need do is retrain the consumers to accept things like automated phone centers where its all but impossible to speak to a real live person, I think they are trying to retrain those in the trade to accept some radical changes in the way we go about our daily activities and treat our fellow workers.
Its not the gig most of us older guys hired on for anymore and I aint sure it ever will be again.
I see co-ops and munis as being more proactive about training and preparing for the day when the older generation leaves the workforce and utilities with their heads in the clouds and their hands in their pockets.

[STLmo1986]

i hope regard for the importance of having well trained lineman doesnt just fall the wayside completely. i'm go-gettin, hard-workin, eager s.o.b., id like a chance to learn from experience before it all retires.if i get a chance.

very interesting to read all you guys have said

[T-Man]

In the uK. They are "enabling" us to work up untill we are 70 .... I'm strugling and I aint even 50 yet. :(

Do you get an insulated Cane? Ya old foggy:D

You'll need an all terraine Hoveround to get up those hills in Scotland. . . .:eek:
http://www.hoveround.com/home/more-information/?PhoneNumber=8004591068&PageID=1110000133&gclid=CPO85JzF068CFQ7sKgodw1Jggw

[BigClive]

I see the future as power companies using contractors and labour agencies to supply unskilled labour, on the basis that if someone gets killed the power company can then blame the agency who will have all sorts of liability waivers signed by the victim in advance. The power company makes a big show of "sacking" that contractor (temporarily) and uses another one until the same thing happens again.

Meanwhile "lineschools" cash in by offering "training" at a high price instead of proper apprenticeships.

Oh wait, that's all happening already.

[reppy007]

Good topic L.A. and lots of good responces,I just wish the younger guys good luck,and work safe/smart.

[LostArt]

It's been on my mind alot lately. I wanted an opinion to those of you in the trade. Where you all thought it was heading. Alot of good responses. Interesting responses. I also like reading what the young apps, the retired, the contractors, the utilities, other countries, are all thinking where this trade is going. I hope to read more. Please keep posting.

[duckhunter]

We are putting more apprentices on "hold" in the program than ever. They just aren't ready to move on and with the loss of experience at some locations, the committee isn't taking any chances.

[rob8210]

Hey Duckhunter, now that is something I haven't heard in a while, they are not ready to go forward. It seems up here they are doing their best to push guys through, ready or not. We are short of men to the point that anybody that has retired can go back out to work right away, sometimes for the same outfit. It seems these schools are trying to take the place of groundmen, we don't have them anymore. I started as a groundman and by the time I became an apprentice I had a pretty good base of knowledge to get going with. Instead of learning how to set poles and the ' basics' I got to start learning about live work. I am truly scared for the future of linework, sacred that more young guys are going to get hurt or killed, mainly because they haven't been properly trained.

[duckhunter]

The program that I serve on the committee for is approved through the IBEW. The BA for the local is on the committee as well as 6 other men that are qualified linemen. A couple, like me are currently in management. We evaluate the apprentices based on their test scores, class attendance, instructor input and the evaluations of the people that work with them. We have never had an apprenice come back and tell us thast he felt that he was unfairly treated.

Most of the guys put on hold because the guys they work with feel that they are not focused on their work with them. A few are from poor climbing. As a committee, we put our credibility and that of the program on the line when we say an apprentice has completed the program.

[rob8210]

Awesome Duckhunter, when a guy isn't focused he isn't ready. Its just rare that guys get held back until they are ready. You really are doing them , and the guys they are going to work with, a huge favor

[Pootnaigle]

I agree 100% by holding em back You are doing everyone a service if they just aint ready. Its purdy much a rubber stamp at many utilities now.

[Koga]

dummin down the trainnin ,and the not havin to be able to climb ,about 50% of the new ones are here just for the paycheck. Could care less about learnin or the trade. And ya cant say nuttin to em hardly cause they Have HR on speed dial. Seen some come out of Linemans school that still dont know crap .Wonder just what they teach em They stand around with thier thumb up thier butts till ya say somethin then look at ya stupid. Some of em its a pleasure to work with em and try to help em, Watch em come up and take on what needs to be done. Ya its changin If we could just weed em out with out a fight from HR !

Koga

[Swamprat]

dummin down the trainnin ,and the not havin to be able to climb ,about 50% of the new ones are here just for the paycheck. Could care less about learnin or the trade. And ya cant say nuttin to em hardly cause they Have HR on speed dial. Seen some come out of Linemans school that still dont know crap .Wonder just what they teach em They stand around with thier thumb up thier butts till ya say somethin then look at ya stupid. Some of em its a pleasure to work with em and try to help em, Watch em come up and take on what needs to be done. Ya its changin If we could just weed em out with out a fight from HR !

Koga

D$mn Koga, good to see ya "Readin the mail again" man...:cool:
As usual, you always have a great comment.

Back in "The day", we had "Options" to make em pay attention. Ya found out real fast is they were "Seriously interested in the Trade"....or Not.

[Bighorn Ape]

Geez Koga, if you could win that fight with HR, it would sure make some room for the guys that care. ;)

[reppy007]

I hate going out on the limb like this,but from what I am seeing......the greeder get greeder and that will include cutting hours ....which includes more part time employees.....they will say that this will save money......so watch out for your benifits........ofcourse they will keep their benifits.

[duckhunter]

This week we start interviewing for an apprentice position and a lineman position. Should be interesting.