Whats the future of this trade?

[apprenticelineman]

I read the posts on here and its pretty discouraging the way the future of this trade sounds like its going, I went to a climbing school and had to use a bucksqueze and it did make me a horrible climber, I found that out when i was excepted to cal/nev jatc and went through there climbing class and they pointed out that i was sneak climbing and did gaff out several times. Im on a transmission job in san diego with par and its full of white ticket transmission techs and there hard working good guys but alot of the jl's out here talk sh!t and ask why there here and that its bullsh!t all these rats are on this job. A new jl came to our crew and told us he turned down the call for this job 5 times because its ****ty work and you hear that all the time from guys down here, they dont wanna be doing transmission work and they wonder why theres some many rats on this job is because there more than willing to do the work.[Im not saying these white tickets should be on this job just pointing out whats going on] Who turns down a 5 grand a week job and then complains about the people willing to do the work every day all day. Another thing that bothers me is the let em have it attitude alot of the jl's down here have which is let the rats do the transmission work we do real line work "distribution". Im not speaking for everyone just the majority of guys ive been around done here and just wanted to get that out there.

[reppy007]

I read the posts on here and its pretty discouraging the way the future of this trade sounds like its going, I went to a climbing school and had to use a bucksqueze and it did make me a horrible climber, I found that out when i was excepted to cal/nev jatc and went through there climbing class and they pointed out that i was sneak climbing and did gaff out several times. Im on a transmission job in san diego with par and its full of white ticket transmission techs and there hard working good guys but alot of the jl's out here talk sh!t and ask why there here and that its bullsh!t all these rats are on this job. A new jl came to our crew and told us he turned down the call for this job 5 times because its ****ty work and you hear that all the time from guys down here, they dont wanna be doing transmission work and they wonder why theres some many rats on this job is because there more than willing to do the work.[Im not saying these white tickets should be on this job just pointing out whats going on] Who turns down a 5 grand a week job and then complains about the people willing to do the work every day all day. Another thing that bothers me is the let em have it attitude alot of the jl's down here have which is let the rats do the transmission work we do real line work "distribution". Im not speaking for everyone just the majority of guys ive been around done here and just wanted to get that out there.

L.A. posted that topic about a little over a week ago,Look at the b/s thread,thats where its located.

[LostArt]

And sometimes that happens to me AL. I ask a question over there and it's been answered or talked about here in Linework--a few dozen times. :D

Here is the link so you can read it AL...

http://powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?8778-What-is-in-the-future-for-this-trade

[bobbo]

Most of the United States is going to Meyers and laminates and steel. Most of the United States has Y systems with higher voltages, 19.9/34.5. Most of the United States does all type of work: substation, transmission 500 to 69, and distribution. Most of the United States do their transmission work in the cold so the trucks can hold in soil. Substation goes to the older hands. And distribution we build is the under build of the transmission. In California they mostly have one pole jobs. Our jurisdiction in all the other states is to rebuild line. Not patch it. In most other utilities lines are condemned after thirty years and then rebuilt. They are mostly supplemental utility hands in construction there. Very few have done cutovers. Large 250 to 300 pole rebuild jobs most never seen. Tower work very few have done. Pulling wire for them is number 6 a couple spans, not t2 or t3 795 or mil for forty. Most of the United States just does ther job and goes home. They wear there jobs, every t shirt lineman barn sells they wear. They got high lift trucks with lineman silhouettes and something stupid saying on the back, fireman need heroes or hooking aint easy. Electricity doesnt exist outside the state of california to them. Best hands I have seen in California are out of state former rats, Old Pike hands, Irby hands. You are far far from the future of linework. California has a great rate, but thats it. Too many have a winemans ticket. But there are some older guys that are the best in the biz there. And Par is the best contractor by far there. They hire good management. Forget the winers, and find somebody who cares what he does and cares what he teaches. White ticket or Yellow thats all that matters.

[Swamprat]

Most of the United States is going to Meyers and laminates and steel. Most of the United States has Y systems with higher voltages, 19.9/34.5. Most of the United States does all type of work: substation, transmission 500 to 69, and distribution. Most of the United States do their transmission work in the cold so the trucks can hold in soil. Substation goes to the older hands. And distribution we build is the under build of the transmission. In California they mostly have one pole jobs. Our jurisdiction in all the other states is to rebuild line. Not patch it. In most other utilities lines are condemned after thirty years and then rebuilt. They are mostly supplemental utility hands in construction there. Very few have done cutovers. Large 250 to 300 pole rebuild jobs most never seen. Tower work very few have done. Pulling wire for them is number 6 a couple spans, not t2 or t3 795 or mil for forty. Most of the United States just does ther job and goes home. They wear there jobs, every t shirt lineman barn sells they wear. They got high lift trucks with lineman silhouettes and something stupid saying on the back, fireman need heroes or hooking aint easy. Electricity doesnt exist outside the state of california to them. Best hands I have seen in California are out of state former rats, Old Pike hands, Irby hands. You are far far from the future of linework. California has a great rate, but thats it. Too many have a winemans ticket. But there are some older guys that are the best in the biz there. And Par is the best contractor by far there. They hire good management. Forget the winers, and find somebody who cares what he does and cares what he teaches. White ticket or Yellow thats all that matters.

Interesting post Bobbo.

In my opinion, Linework, is a Trade ya WANT to be in, because you LIKE the Trade.
It Da$n Sure ain't for money, it's cause ya LOVE the WORK. Though the money ain't bad, if ya put your time into the trade.

It ain't about "T-Shirts" or stickers, Proclaimin what ya are. Real Linemen, are Linemen. It's just the Job we chose to do in our life, and friggin Love, and Loved it.

We don't need no stickers or T-shirts, proclaimin who we are. Some of em Are cool though.
We ain't "Firemen, or Police", We're LINEMEN. And without us....well, I'll just leave it there.

Interesting you should post this tonight.
I just watched "Undercover Boss" tonight.

The CEO of Mastec was on. A non union Electrical Contractor. What an insight!

I didn't know that Mastec was founded by a Cuban American.
It was a really interesting show...especially listenin to the workers, and their interaction with the "Boss" they didn't know was the CEO.
It was also great seein the Linework trade from that perspective, and all the different aspects of it. Really a neat episode of "Undercover Boss".

[apprenticelineman]

Most of the United States is going to Meyers and laminates and steel. Most of the United States has Y systems with higher voltages, 19.9/34.5. Most of the United States does all type of work: substation, transmission 500 to 69, and distribution. Most of the United States do their transmission work in the cold so the trucks can hold in soil. Substation goes to the older hands. And distribution we build is the under build of the transmission. In California they mostly have one pole jobs. Our jurisdiction in all the other states is to rebuild line. Not patch it. In most other utilities lines are condemned after thirty years and then rebuilt. They are mostly supplemental utility hands in construction there. Very few have done cutovers. Large 250 to 300 pole rebuild jobs most never seen. Tower work very few have done. Pulling wire for them is number 6 a couple spans, not t2 or t3 795 or mil for forty. Most of the United States just does ther job and goes home. They wear there jobs, every t shirt lineman barn sells they wear. They got high lift trucks with lineman silhouettes and something stupid saying on the back, fireman need heroes or hooking aint easy. Electricity doesnt exist outside the state of california to them. Best hands I have seen in California are out of state former rats, Old Pike hands, Irby hands. You are far far from the future of linework. California has a great rate, but thats it. Too many have a winemans ticket. But there are some older guys that are the best in the biz there. And Par is the best contractor by far there. They hire good management. Forget the winers, and find somebody who cares what he does and cares what he teaches. White ticket or Yellow thats all that matters.

I work hard and do what im asked, and keep my mouth shut on the whole union/non-union thing the only reasoning i can see with these guys being pissed about "rats" in there local on there job is that these "rats" would be here for 20-25$ an hour instead of the 47.52$ an hour there making working for the local, if a rat contractor was out here and had the contract theyd b here working for a hell of lot less money and **** benefits and i think thats what pisses off alot of these off.imo

[Swamprat]

I work hard and do what im asked, and keep my mouth shut on the whole union/non-union thing the only reasoning i can see with these guys being pissed about "rats" in there local on there job is that these "rats" would be here for 20-25$ an hour instead of the 47.52$ an hour there making working for the local, if a rat contractor was out here and had the contract theyd b here working for a hell of lot less money and **** benefits and i think thats what pisses off alot of these off.imo

Non union workers do work for less money than union workers AL.
In the economy of today...choices have to be made.

[bobbo]

I work hard and do what im asked, and keep my mouth shut on the whole union/non-union thing the only reasoning i can see with these guys being pissed about "rats" in there local on there job is that these "rats" would be here for 20-25$ an hour instead of the 47.52$ an hour there making working for the local, if a rat contractor was out here and had the contract theyd b here working for a hell of lot less money and **** benefits and i think thats what pisses off alot of these off.imo

Irby hands love doing 500. Midwest Par hands are the best in the biz too for doing towers. Quantra owns Irby which owns Par. If Par management know they have **** hands to work with in the local, they are going to get the right manpower to do the work. One thing you have to know about this trade, charles darwins theory of evolution applies. The strong and smart will thrive. The complainers and weak will fall through the collander. If you know how to do 500, there is an art to it. Then you go learn distribution with a set of slack blocks pulling number 6 or some other light wire, you ll be saying this is so easy. Par is the only company that is not into the politics of utilities. They give a price to.do the work thats it. The other companies hire a bunch of utility ex hands to get the contract, neer do well son in laws of utility bosses, sons of utilitybosses, or friends of utility bosses. Par doesnt care, they dont suck **** to get the work- and if the hands are ****ty they will get good hands. Thats it.

[TimBukTu]

Irby hands love doing 500. Midwest Par hands are the best in the biz too for doing towers. Quantra owns Irby which owns Par. If Par management know they have **** hands to work with in the local, they are going to get the right manpower to do the work. One thing you have to know about this trade, charles darwins theory of evolution applies. The strong and smart will thrive. The complainers and weak will fall through the collander. If you know how to do 500, there is an art to it. Then you go learn distribution with a set of slack blocks pulling number 6 or some other light wire, you ll be saying this is so easy. Par is the only company that is not into the politics of utilities. They give a price to.do the work thats it. The other companies hire a bunch of utility ex hands to get the contract, neer do well son in laws of utility bosses, sons of utilitybosses, or friends of utility bosses. Par doesnt care, they dont suck **** to get the work- and if the hands are ****ty they will get good hands. Thats it.

Bobbo, sounds like your part of the Red Machine. When Commonwealth went broke didn’t all the management hands end up at Union Power? Which Quanta bought and merged with Par. So the hands that stole and broke one company end up some where else. Quanta was stared with Enron monies that could be hidden and started during Enron’s land slide. Ironic, Quanta's Head Quarters are in Houston, Texas. So now Mastec ( owned by the Cuban Mafia) just bought and owns a Union company so they can be in the Transmission side.

[reppy007]

I wont claim to know all about Mastec,I have worked for them for a short period,they could be better,which every company can.....but as long as you were a good worker they treated you ok as far as I was concerned,they always paid on time,enjoyed most of the other workers.....some of their equipment was brand new and then some were rag tag.They seemed laid back.

[bobbo]

I work hard and do what im asked, and keep my mouth shut on the whole union/non-union thing the only reasoning i can see with these guys being pissed about "rats" in there local on there job is that these "rats" would be here for 20-25$ an hour instead of the 47.52$ an hour there making working for the local, if a rat contractor was out here and had the contract theyd b here working for a hell of lot less money and **** benefits and i think thats what pisses off alot of these off.imo

Was on a plane with 80 lineman from the Phillipines, the utility they were from was Meralco. Real good tight hands. Most hands from thay country are very tight and they are family. The actual boss of the job was an aquaintance and friend, phillipino. They go all over the world to work and they have a killer reputation of getting **** done and not complaining. I was on a plane with them and asked where they were going, California and then Nevada. When 47 books were full. Utilities need to get **** done. Contractors need to get **** done. This country club bs with union hands has got to stop: screwing off, hiding, drinking under bridges, sitting in lawn chairs, *****ing and complaining. California is very ripe for non union. You have real good quality apprentices, an excellent apprenticeship, a lot of good quality lineman... But you have tons of whiny **** bags over there wanting to make 48 rate that dont want to do the work. **** bags that all they want to do is get as much out of the.copper connex as they can. California is very ripe, and red simpson... irby...mastec...and whomever is licking their chops.

[bobbo]

Bobbo, sounds like your part of the Red Machine. When Commonwealth went broke didn’t all the management hands end up at Union Power? Which Quanta bought and merged with Par. So the hands that stole and broke one company end up some where else. Quanta was stared with Enron monies that could be hidden and started during Enron’s land slide. Ironic, Quanta's Head Quarters are in Houston, Texas. So now Mastec ( owned by the Cuban Mafia) just bought and owns a Union company so they can be in the Transmission side.

Par is the only company thats been fair to me consistently over the years. The general foreman on up are the sharpest I have seen in the trade by far. And honesty, good character, experience... The general foreman on up I have seen from them. And its been consistent from California to New York. All these other companies try to get some kind of 25 year old prodigy to manage straight out of the apprenticeship. The kid buys the most expensive car . buys an expensive house. Just knows enough about the work to be dangerous. Manging men that have been doing it for a long time. His character sucks, because he hasnt developed it through hard work. Poor kid is in a bind because his wife and kids are getting fat with the money he is making. Has a house thats under water. Cant go below gf pay or he will lose it. And its just an observation to me, I found out the cause of miserable foreman syndrome, really fat ugly wives.

[apprenticelineman]

Irby hands love doing 500. Midwest Par hands are the best in the biz too for doing towers. Quantra owns Irby which owns Par. If Par management know they have **** hands to work with in the local, they are going to get the right manpower to do the work. One thing you have to know about this trade, charles darwins theory of evolution applies. The strong and smart will thrive. The complainers and weak will fall through the collander. If you know how to do 500, there is an art to it. Then you go learn distribution with a set of slack blocks pulling number 6 or some other light wire, you ll be saying this is so easy. Par is the only company that is not into the politics of utilities. They give a price to.do the work thats it. The other companies hire a bunch of utility ex hands to get the contract, neer do well son in laws of utility bosses, sons of utilitybosses, or friends of utility bosses. Par doesnt care, they dont suck **** to get the work- and if the hands are ****ty they will get good hands. Thats it.

I worked for irby out in Texas and they dont pay sh!t, but what they do is show up to work everyday bust a$$ and get the job done and thats what our union needs to do to be strong and stay strong in California or Irby and pike will be here doing the work alot of people ***** about and the 48.00$ an hour rate these guys get paid and the 6-10s to 6-12s were working are going to go to them and they wont have work to ***** about doing and I hear the "let the rats have the transmission work" and thats got to stop because then theyll have the contracted distrubution work and theyll do it for far less money. Our own instructor at the apprenticeship is embarrassed by the bullsh!t grievences that have come from this job down in san diego. In our contract a jl has to be the one to rig helicopter loads well the subsurface company cruxs [which quanta now owns] dont have jl's so the hall sent them jl's and the only thing alot of these guys would do is catch the hook and hook up the load other than that nothing and when they were told they aint worth a f**k they file grievances and its embarrassing to me just an apprentice. I work with alot of guys from the midwest who only do transmission and they are white ticket lineman who bust there a$$ and do quality work that show up everyday and get the job done and these white ticket lineman are the ones we need in our union to keep it strong. Theyll b the first ones to tell you they dont do distribution they build high lines and thats what they wanna do. I make over two thousand dollars a week as an apprentice and to hear people complain about the work is crazy to me.

[apprenticelineman]

Non union workers do work for less money than union workers AL.
In the economy of today...choices have to be made.

Im not trying to convert you everyone can make there own choice as to who they work for but non union companys make more profit for themselves at the expense of there workers and are very profitable in this economy so the ones who suffer are the guys actually doing the work. As a 3rd step apprentice i make more than journeyman lineman for irby and were doing the same job. When i was in texas the cost of living is cheaper and i understood a lower rate but when i went to maine with Irby and the cost of living and the taxes up there are extremely high and there Jl's make 28$ hr to do labor intensive dangerous work its just wrong. The job we did in texas actually finished ahead of schedule and the reason that happened was because we went to 7-12s and were worked like dogs for **** pay and the ones who benefited from our hard work was management who received a huge bonus and we were laid off nearly a month before we expected to be completed.

[duckhunter]

We hired a new lineman today and a step 2 apprentice. Looking forward to what these new men bring to the mix.

[Swamprat]

Im not trying to convert you everyone can make there own choice as to who they work for but non union companys make more profit for themselves at the expense of there workers and are very profitable in this economy so the ones who suffer are the guys actually doing the work. As a 3rd step apprentice i make more than journeyman lineman for irby and were doing the same job. When i was in texas the cost of living is cheaper and i understood a lower rate but when i went to maine with Irby and the cost of living and the taxes up there are extremely high and there Jl's make 28$ hr to do labor intensive dangerous work its just wrong. The job we did in texas actually finished ahead of schedule and the reason that happened was because we went to 7-12s and were worked like dogs for **** pay and the ones who benefited from our hard work was management who received a huge bonus and we were laid off nearly a month before we expected to be completed.

27 year old apprentice Lineman...who's worked for rat contractors, and is now workin Union.
Good for you.:)

Which ever path you choose to take, make sure you work Safe man.
And...don't worry about how much the "company" is makin. It ain't, all about money....the companys...or yours...

[apprenticelineman]

27 year old apprentice Lineman...who's worked for rat contractors, and is now workin Union.
Good for you.:)

Which ever path you choose to take, make sure you work Safe man.
And...don't worry about how much the "company" is makin. It ain't, all about money....the companys...or yours...

Thanks swamp and im not a non-union hater i just worked with guys from irby who busted there a$$ did good work and taught me things to, just dont like to see em get paid
less than than worth.