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[LAMartin.CVEC]

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Orgnizdlbr
Orgnizdlbr is offline Senior Member

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Mar 2003
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Quote Originally Posted by Swamprat View Post
So, by that statement Labor, any Lineman that works for a Non union Utility or Co-op as a, qualified Journeyman Lineman, by that Utility or Co-op is a "Rat" to you....? Really?

Sad. So, the only "Journeyman Lineman" that can ever BE Jouneyman Lineman....MUST be union.
By Your thinkin maby.

But NOT real life thinkin.
Really dont care what you think, but tell me, where does the Journeyman name come from???




I am not responding to Mr. SwampRats post as he has a wonderful way of wrecking a good thread, however I feel obligated to reply to your post, sir.

I work for a non-union Co-op, am I henceforth to be for ever cast down and know as a Rat?


The title Journeyman has been cast since the middle (or Dark) ages (pun intended).

There was always a master in any particular village/town/city/ he would take an apprentice untill he was able to produce work that he could require payment for. Once he started cutting in on the master's (or occasionally grand master) work then he was cutting in on his pay. This means that the Journeymans work was now equal to or surpassing the masters and he was sent on a "journey" or "journee" as the french would say. He would eventually find a village and establish his craft and take on an apprentice until behold the middle age became the industrial age.

I am well aware or the roots of the title: I am more then well aware of the roots of my trade.

If you think that I am a Rat; so be it, however if you wish to talk banks, substations, transmission, distribution, subtransmission, underground, overhead.... I obviously don't care what: then sir:


In the Words of one of my apprentice: BRING IT!

I will leave you with this one thought sir:

work safely,

L.A.Martin
Journeyman Div III
CVEC

[Orgnizdlbr]

Mr. Martin, Swamprat uses the name "rat" in his screen name. The word "Rat" used in the vernacular of lineman is a non-union lineman. Swamprat knows how I feel about non-union Lineman as he and I have have many, many, discussions on the subject. He also knows that IMHO whether Union or Non-union I believe we are all brothers in this great trade. When Greg gets his head in the Captain Morgan jug he forgets those things......

What you need to know about me then, Ive been in this trade 40 years. I have not disparaged or otherwise railed against non union people here, unlike some others..... I wish ALL Linemen were union. The IBEW was formed by Henry Miller and other men because the trade had become so dangerous and the abuses of the employers was rampant. Fast forward to today, there is a direct corellation between deaths in this trade and the fact that non union employers, particularly in the construction side of this business wher the employer puts profit above all else and uses these young men and women then throws them away like trash.

So you know, I'll say it again, I hold no ill will towards non union workers. Scabs are another issue, I'm thinking you know the difference there......

There was no need for the condesention and votriol on your part, I meant no disrespect to any non union worker. But the simple fact is that the title JL is confered by the Business Managers of the IBEW, the same as the title JW. Call yourself what ever you want or whatever your coop calls you, I'm sure you're qualified and good at what you do.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmm In my mind a guy that works for a muni, or a co op, or a non union utility is Not in any way shape form or fashion a RAT. They are there for the long haul, and the benefits and security. I strongly suspect they have a training program and a defined progression rate in place. I also think its in their best interest to mentor and train, to the best of their abilities ,the newhires.
The term RAT only applies to contractors( thus the term Rat Contractor).These are the folks that help suppress the wages and benefits for the entire trade. Their safety record is often poor, Nepotisim often is prevalant,and its an every man for himself attitude.Obviously Rat contractors could not exist if there wernt some excellant hands among them also.

[Swamprat]

Mr. Martin, Swamprat uses the name "rat" in his screen name. The word "Rat" used in the vernacular of lineman is a non-union lineman. Swamprat knows how I feel about non-union Lineman as he and I have have many, many, discussions on the subject. He also knows that IMHO whether Union or Non-union I believe we are all brothers in this great trade. When Greg gets his head in the Captain Morgan jug he forgets those things......

What you need to know about me then, Ive been in this trade 40 years. I have not disparaged or otherwise railed against non union people here, unlike some others..... I wish ALL Linemen were union. The IBEW was formed by Henry Miller and other men because the trade had become so dangerous and the abuses of the employers was rampant. Fast forward to today, there is a direct corellation between deaths in this trade and the fact that non union employers, particularly in the construction side of this business wher the employer puts profit above all else and uses these young men and women then throws them away like trash.

So you know, I'll say it again, I hold no ill will towards non union workers. Scabs are another issue, I'm thinking you know the difference there......

There was no need for the condesention and votriol on your part, I meant no disrespect to any non union worker. But the simple fact is that the title JL is confered by the Business Managers of the IBEW, the same as the title JW. Call yourself what ever you want or whatever your coop calls you, I'm sure you're qualified and good at what you do.

Pretty deep there labor.:D

I live in the swamps of Florida. And, I AM a "ratty" sob, and it don't have nothin to do with linework.
But yeah, I worked for a non union contractor, on Union property, and we were hired by the Union corporation. Sorry man...Florida is a "Right to work state". I know, I know...ya hate those too....

Well, I'm Swamprat, and you're Orgnizdlbr, and we'll just agree to disagree.:cool:

[LAMartin.CVEC]

Mr. OGB,

I know full well the history of the IBEW as I have posted here before I come from that line, I was merely recanting in my way the historical accuracy of the title Journeyman.

As for union or non we'll have to take that up in private message, after all this is a public board and my name is on public record here.

Thank you for your candor, it is appreciated. I would also like to apologize if I came across as bitter or condescending.

I have seen the effects of "rat" contractors here at the co-op. We at the co-op tend to have to fix their mess with in a few years of construction.

as always

work safely,

L.A.Martin
Journeyman Div III
CVEC

[Swamprat]

I have seen the effects of "rat" contractors here at the co-op. We at the co-op tend to have to fix their mess with in a few years of construction.

as always

work safely,

L.A.Martin
Journeyman Div III
CVEC

Just out of curiosty, Mr. Martin, what "mess's" have you had to "correct" that rat contractors, performed on your system? Does your co-op, have "Birdogs" that shadow the contractors?

What are some of the "mess's" that you had to "clean up" after the rat contractors...and, Who were the Rat contractors?

Seriously man. You can't speak stuff like that without giving specifics.

As always, Mr. Martin...Every man in this Great Trade of linework...
should, and hopefully will, "work safely".

[lineman]

After all that has been said and done on this board, I have always kept at arm’s length but, on this issue I feel that I must weigh in on it.

I am a municipal Lineman. I still live in the town I was born. I am 58 years old. When I was 19 I got hired on with the city on the trash trucks and I then transferred into the Electric Dept. I had dropped out of school and I thought I was a hippie until I saw what Linemen were getting paid. I was nineteen when they hired me. I was a high school dropout but they saw something in me.

The number one agreement between the boss (Mal Ballard) and I when he hired me was that he would never have to ask me to get a haircut. I agreed to that and I made good on it. I was clean cut pretty much from then on. All I knew is that I had a job with the City and I was making eight bucks an hour and I was going to stick it out.

On my first day at the new job, I saw a Lineman climb a pole for the first time. The Lineman’s name was Vern White and he was a man’s man and he just walked up that pole like it was nothing to do… I was so impressed that I was hook, line, and sinker for the trade at that moment. I needed to be a Lineman no matter what... I never looked at anything else from then on; this is what I am going to do.

I was a good enough climber and had enough guts that I was taken in by the other linemen and they taught me the trade…

At the city, our boss Mal, thought it was a good idea to hire any tramps that were passing through so we always had a variety of characters in and out of the department. Back then the number one rule was “If you can’t cut it, you can’t stay.” Linemen ran the Electric Department back then and it was good… I am so humbled and honored that I was chosen to be a lineman during that time..

I don’t mean to be arrogant or high and mighty but I was a natural (climber) lineman. I loved to climb and I love ropes and rigging still to this day and I still love to take a chance when one is presented...

Our crew back then consisted of a very good blend of: local guys, a few old boomers that settled down here, and tramps passing through. It was perfect for me to learn.

After a few years in the trade I heard about the union. Being the curious young lad I was, I started asking about the union and what it was. No one wanted to talk about it when I asked questions so, I started to research it on my own. Back then, that ment the library, I liked the idea of the union and thought we should do that and I started talking about it. Well, after a bit, one the old lineman pulled me aside to tell me something about the union.

What had happened, and, this is in the history books, there was some sort of ruckus down in Pueblo Colorado at the steel mill in the early 1900’s and some union thugs came in and killed some of the good local citizens (fathers and husbands)... It was the late nineteen seventies when this story was told to me and it was remembered and passed on to me with bitterness. The message I got was to fear the union. They will come out and kill you.

Fast forward a few years until after I was pronounced a Journeyman at my company, We were at Mesa Hot Line School one spring and I had my first encounter with a real Union man.

We were all drinking at the hotel and a bunch of us were in a room telling jokes. At some point in the evening someone asked me who I was, I said that I was a Lineman at the City of Longmont. Well, this dude from across the room heard that and says “you ain’t no lineman cause you ain’t union.” He said this right in front of a room full of twenty guys… The only thing I could do was to go after him. My guys grabbed me and his guys grabbed him so there was no fight but I sure wanted to bend his teeth in.

Even after that, I still respected the IBEW because I had read about its beginnings and I understood that the reason my pay was so good was directly because of the union and what they had done. For most of my career at the city, I was paid right at or above union scale when you take into account the benefits we had so I never had a reason to join other than to pay dues.. I now enjoy a good retirement from the city.

So, that’s my story and I am sticking to it.

I was a city worker my whole life and it was very good to me and I survived it with all of my fingers and toes.

bd

[dogman]

Good post, Lineman.

[Swamprat]

You ARE a Journeyman Lineman Byron, Just as I am...or was.
Ain't workin no more.
And, it don't take union to "certify" you are one.

Non union Utilities, Co-ops, and Municipalities, have THEIR criteria, for Their Journeyman Lineman. The Title of Journeyman Lineman, isn't held or dictated strictly by.... if you are in a union.

[scratchpad]

Pretty deep there labor.:D

I live in the swamps of Florida. And, I AM a "ratty" sob, and it don't have nothin to do with linework.
But yeah, I worked for a non union contractor, on Union property, and we were hired by the Union corporation. Sorry man...Florida is a "Right to work state". I know, I know...ya hate those too....

Well, I'm Swamprat, and you're Orgnizdlbr, and we'll just agree to disagree.:cool:

b.s. you put rat at the end of your username cause you're proud of being a rat contractor. PIKE to be exact. And thanks for stating the obvious, you are a "ratty" sob.

[scratchpad]

You ARE a Journeyman Lineman Byron, Just as I am...or was.
Ain't workin no more.
And, it don't take union to "certify" you are one.

Non union Utilities, Co-ops, and Municipalities, have THEIR criteria, for Their Journeyman Lineman. The Title of Journeyman Lineman, isn't held or dictated strictly by.... if you are in a union.

You were never a Journeyman Lineman. You never earned a yellow ticket. Show me otherwise and i'll retract my comments.

[reppy007]

You were never a Journeyman Lineman. You never earned a yellow ticket. Show me otherwise and i'll retract my comments.

I couldnt have said it better,I wont miss his sorry banned a$$....maybe he will find his own toolbox,cause they wont accept him over there.

[scratchpad]

You ARE a Journeyman Lineman Byron, Just as I am...or was.
Ain't workin no more.
And, it don't take union to "certify" you are one.

Non union Utilities, Co-ops, and Municipalities, have THEIR criteria, for Their Journeyman Lineman. The Title of Journeyman Lineman, isn't held or dictated strictly by.... if you are in a union.

In an apprentice tools thread you recommend a fu(kin ball peen hammer. Really? I have not once seen a ball peen hammer used in this trade, yet. Not on a journeyman linemans belt. You must have been building a lot of single phase line with bare poles. Journeymen lineman my ass.

[Bighorn Ape]

I can hardly stand to read this bull****....Ignorance.

[Lineman North Florida]

I can hardly stand to read this bull****....Ignorance.

Maybe with any luck at all it will slack off now.