Pulling primary through long conduit

[tseug]

I’m having power run to my property and would like to ask what sort of problems the crew may run into during the installation.

There are 3 pulls in 3” conduit with 36” radius sweeps, 400’ 500’ and 900’.
I don’t know the cable size but it’s a single coax type, probably 7200 volts or 14.2K feeding a single pad mount.

I completed the 500’ run last year which goes through 2 creeks and some very wet land. The conduit could have a lot of water in it or it could be relatively dry, I just don’t know. I’m working on the 900’ run at the moment.

Some Questions:

1) Am I responsible for making sure the conduit is clean and dry or does the install crew take care of that, or does it even matter?

2) Will they run a mandrel through the conduit before pulling the cable?

3) Is there a possibility of the pull rope burning through the sweeps?

4) Does the puller exert downward pressure on top of the sweeps? I tamped them in real tight but it seems like there may be a lot of upwards force and I’m wondering if they could pull out of the ground.

5) Does the puller have a slip clutch or force gauge to let the guys know if there is too much pulling force?

6) Do the sweeps get sealed with something after the cable is pulled to keep critters out of the conduit?


Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmmm very little chance of a pull rope burning thru in a bend . In all probiblity they will use a lubricant on the wire, Soap, or something similar.... we have used hand cleaner before if no soap was available.The more 90 degree bends the harder the wire will be to pull. But On a single phase run I wouldnt think it should be a problem. As far as a mandrel Thats gonna be their call.Not every one uses a hydraulic puller, many just use muscle power. If you properly glued the conduit water shouldnt be a problem unless you left it open for extended periods. If you didnt install a pull string they will be forced to blow one in and that uses a mandrel .

[tseug]

Thanks Pootnaigle

I think I did a good job with the glue but I have talked to people who lay conduit for a living and they say water always seems to find its way in, and it's been buried for a year now.

I had to supply a 1/4" pull rope and I ran it as I was installing the conduit because I was freaking about not being able to get it through after I finished. They are going to use my rope to pull their stronger pull rope in.

[Lineman North Florida]

If your conduit is in a wet environment it's gonna get some water in it, the tolerances on gray (electrical) conduit and ( white) water conduit are different with the white conduit having better tolerances making it better for water and air lines, most any gray conduit that I have ever seen used for anything other than electric runs either leaked air or water, but that should not be a problem for you and with 3" conduit for single phase primary it should pull in like it was greased with lard.:D

[Testa805]

I'm not a lineman but I am an electrician and I've done pulls up to 1000' burning through the
Conduit shouldn't happen if you use plenty of soap. I have seen conduit pull up from the ground
But that was due to the trench being freshly backed filled and not packed down and also not
Feeding the wire fast enough for the puller to pull it but if is been a year I wouldn't worry about it
And as far as water goes a little water always seems to get in

[tseug]

If your conduit is in a wet environment it's gonna get some water in it, the tolerances on gray (electrical) conduit and ( white) water conduit are different with the white conduit having better tolerances making it better for water and air lines, most any gray conduit that I have ever seen used for anything other than electric runs either leaked air or water, but that should not be a problem for you and with 3" conduit for single phase primary it should pull in like it was greased with lard.:D

Again, thanks N Florida. Yeah, the fit was all over the place, some really tight and some loose. I used 20' sticks and was able to keep the joints out of the creeks but in the other low areas my trenches were literally filling up with water.

So, are they going to care about the water if there is a lot in the conduit? People are telling me the lengths are crazy long so I have been stressing over it.

[tseug]

I'm not a lineman but I am an electrician and I've done pulls up to 1000' burning through the
Conduit shouldn't happen if you use plenty of soap. I have seen conduit pull up from the ground
But that was due to the trench being freshly backed filled and not packed down and also not
Feeding the wire fast enough for the puller to pull it but if is been a year I wouldn't worry about it
And as far as water goes a little water always seems to get in

I'm feeling better about this. I compacted the sweeps so well that I ran out of dirt. :) Thanks!

[Lineman North Florida]

Again, thanks N Florida. Yeah, the fit was all over the place, some really tight and some loose. I used 20' sticks and was able to keep the joints out of the creeks but in the other low areas my trenches were literally filling up with water.

So, are they going to care about the water if there is a lot in the conduit? People are telling me the lengths are crazy long so I have been stressing over it. The power company should have given you some specs as far as length of pulls, size of conduit, depth etc.etc, I haven't seen where you have anything to be concerned about, it should all work out well.

[T-Man]

Here is something that may set your mind at ease. There is a port light house in the harbor of Milwaukee, The coast guard was concerned that when an ore ship came into port and was having trouble steering in foul weather they drop their anchors to prevent running into docks and such. Once in a while they drop their anchor and it severs the lead jacketed cable feeding the light house. This caused a major amount of work to haul the cable up on a barge and repair it. So they tried direct buried cable like the stuff you will pull thru that conduit. They have less problems getting it up and it's easier to splice. The water seems to have no effect on the cable.

I would say a little water in the conduit will be nothing to worry about.

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

Since you ran your rope while laying the pipe, I'd like you to try something. At one end, tie the rope off and leave a little slack on the ground. Go to the other end and try to pull the slack thru. I hope it pulls thru. I've seen this done where the rope was pulled when the conduit was layed and the rope ended up glued to the inside of the conduit at all the joints where the excess glue flowed inside. Ended up being a real nightmare. Other than that, sounds like you should be good. I wouldn't worry about the water either. On our longer pulls, some 2000' with multiple sweeps, we'd pour 20 gallons of poly water and 20 gallons of water into the conduit. Never had a problem.

[tseug]

The power company should have given you some specs as far as length of pulls, size of conduit, depth etc.etc, I haven't seen where you have anything to be concerned about, it should all work out well.

They gave me the spec sheets and engineered the run in person. 900' is pushing their maximum but there was no other choice because of terrain. The run does drop about 150' in elevation so that should help if they pull downhill. Thanks for your confidence.

[tseug]

Here is something that may set your mind at ease. There is a port light house in the harbor of Milwaukee, The coast guard was concerned that when an ore ship came into port and was having trouble steering in foul weather they drop their anchors to prevent running into docks and such. Once in a while they drop their anchor and it severs the lead jacketed cable feeding the light house. This caused a major amount of work to haul the cable up on a barge and repair it. So they tried direct buried cable like the stuff you will pull thru that conduit. They have less problems getting it up and it's easier to splice. The water seems to have no effect on the cable.

I would say a little water in the conduit will be nothing to worry about.

That's reassuring. I'm ok with parts of the cable being underwater, I was just a bit concerned if the crew would do the install if the conduit wasn't cleaned out first.

[tseug]

Since you ran your rope while laying the pipe, I'd like you to try something. At one end, tie the rope off and leave a little slack on the ground. Go to the other end and try to pull the slack thru. I hope it pulls thru. I've seen this done where the rope was pulled when the conduit was layed and the rope ended up glued to the inside of the conduit at all the joints where the excess glue flowed inside. Ended up being a real nightmare. Other than that, sounds like you should be good. I wouldn't worry about the water either. On our longer pulls, some 2000' with multiple sweeps, we'd pour 20 gallons of poly water and 20 gallons of water into the conduit. Never had a problem.

I was wondering about the glue and rope. I put a 25' stiff copper wire leader in front of the rope and that kept the rope out of the wet glue on the previous joint. Working alone only on the weekends it took me about 2 months to complete the 500' run. The rope pulled very easily all the way to the end so I think the extended time was a benefit in this case. I'm also running phone in a seperate 2" conduit with a copper leader and never experienced any sticking with that either.

I will double check the rope before I call for the install. Serious, 2000' all at once with no splices?

[reppy007]

I dont think you need to worry about anything either,it depends where you are located,and what type of soil it there,Id worry about the sand more than the water,thats if your in S.Flordia.

[tseug]

Rocks, rocks, and more rocks. :( I'm curious about the problems with sand? Sand is one of the bedding materials they recommend for the conduit.

[reppy007]

Rocks, rocks, and more rocks. :( I'm curious about the problems with sand? Sand is one of the bedding materials they recommend for the conduit.

Im just refering to what Ive seen in S.flordia....The naples area,when your in a trench working with conduit,the trench is always collapsing,on a straight shot its ok,but when you install sweeps for your 90,you better make sure its shored up well cause that 90 is the first place that will collapse...if you have lots of rocks,sand wont hurt...but in this case its all pretty much sand.

[tseug]

Gotcha.....I had that problem trenching through the creeks. It was like gravy and the sides kept falling in.

[reppy007]

Gotcha.....I had that problem trenching through the creeks. It was like gravy and the sides kept falling in.

Like I said before,,,,and will till the day I die,and on the another one bites the dust thread....Ill take the mud over sand anyday....being in sand all day,sweating,and all its nearly impossible to get your clothes cleaned unless you put a hose to them before throwing them into a washer.