This cant be safe

[iwlv433]

Ok I want to here from all of you experienced Lineman out there and tell me what you think. I was recently put in this situation, and as a journeyman in another trade I just can't wrap my head around the thinking of this kind of training. This a an 11 day "climbing Class" and no experience of climbing poles was a prerequisite to getting invited to the class, so my understanding was this is going to be a basic climbing class to teach you the principles and the technique of safe climbing. So as the first day of climbing started, we were informed that some people had gone to a line college and others have absolutely no climbing experience at all, including myself having never even tired on a pair of climbers. So we all start on the smallest poles there which are no taller than 10 feet and had us climbing them with no belt or strap just to get the feel of it. It was slow going at first and there were 4 or 5 people having a hard time but as the day went on we began to get the hang of it.

Day two was a completely different environment they separated the people who were experienced from the beginners and began to give us the idea that if the beginner group didn’t get with the "program and start listening" that they went going to send us out to work and we would not be indentured into the program, whaaaaaaaaaat!!!!!!! after one day I couldn’t believe it. So later in day 2 they had us climbing 40 and 60 foot poles with a harness and a retractable lanyard which I thought was great because you get the confidence you need without the fear of cutting out so you can really concentrate on your climbing, we each did that one time, people were cutting out left and right and if they hadn’t had the fall protection on they most likely would have been hurt.
Day Three is where I started having problems and thinking that this is total accident waiting to happen, when we were told no more small poles and we moved up to the 60 footers. We were all in a group and the poles are in a giant circle so everyone had there own, and could climb at the same time, they would say ok climb up to the 20 foot mark so we all did, now keep in mind this is free climbing we had no belt or straps on and 2 days ago 3 of us never climbed before, people were cutting out falling from the 10 and 15 foot mark even some of the experienced guys, but I just kept doing what they said and tried to do the best I could. They had us going to the 30 foot mark or so free climbing, and they were letting the people go up that high who were cutting out at 10 feet, this kept up for another 2 days or so and then we started climbing over arms this is where I said enough, I had practiced and climbed over arms 3 times, they take me and another guy who are the 2 most inexperienced in the class tell us to climb up this 60 foot pole and change out arms and insulators sag the wires and put new a new arm and insulators on, I’m thinking in my head this cant be right 4 days ago both of us had never climbed a pole now they want us to go up this 60 footer and change out arms, I want this job so I keep my mouth shut and do it. They guy I was working with climbs up first and before he gets to the first arm he cuts out 3 times and catches himself, he never locks his leg, early that day a different instructor told him if he did lock his leg he wasn’t going to let him climb anymore because it was getting to the point even the instructors thought was dangerous now he gets over the arms and to the top so its my turn I climb up I have no problems im doing good one of the instructors even said I was a natural, I get to the top and notice that my partner is very uncomfortable and so am I we both don’t have the experience and either of us know how to do this safely so I make the decision to come down. And that's were all hell broke loose and the "instructor" started yelling at me saying what the fu ck are you doing this is bull **** bla bla bla, and im trying to tell him this isn’t safe and to put us with experienced guys so we can learn from them what's the point of putting 2 new people together, its dangerous
Anyway please let me know what you guys think of this, maybe im crazy but you cant become a great climber in 2 weeks especially if you get killed because of some "instructor" Also we were not using any fall protection. There is more to this story other thing happend also

[Berserk13]

Curious, what course is this?

[iwlv433]

Curious, what course is this?

At this time in the thread im not goint to say but I will later on I want peoples honest opinion before I let that info out.

[bren guzzi]

That's the worst " training " I've ever heard of.

I've trained guys... From New Zealand to the UK , Ireland . And Saudi Arabia ..

I HAVE NEVER LET ANYONE FREE CLIMB A POLE ... We used to free climb towers ( pylons) years ago ( the 80,s).

What we do is get the guys going up and down poles. With x arms at the top,, so they can't slide their belts over the top of a pole while watching their feet.. As first timers often do..

NOBODY. should be free climbing nowadays ... It's against the law here in Europe .. Don't know about over the pond ??? But some one on here will tell us shortly.. We used to put a circle of poles up and after a few days I would get them playing games.. Throwing a ball between the guys at the top " to get used to working with both hands.. Who ever dropped the ball had to go down an get it.. Etc etc... Who ever is running this circus wants a SLAP. !

It's pure BS. I'd walk away and tell them to shove it...

SHOUTING AT GUYS COZ THEY FEEL UNSAFE. IS PURE STUPIDITY ...

I'm over thirty years a linesman and I'm SHOCKED... :(

[Berserk13]

If I was a betting man I'd say he is coming through the same course I did, free climbing is still taught but rarely used in the field anymore over here. The contractor I'm working for now is the first in 4 years I've ran acrossed that that will still allow us to free climb. If you feel your saftey is at risk you had every right to speak up

[Orgnizdlbr]

Non union outfit?????? You don't put people who never climbed before up a 60 in two days. You were supposed to frame and sag on a 60 after 2 days???? Sounds like Pike!!!

[mptree1]

I recently went to climbing school that my company sponsors. OSHA says that unless one is trained and qualified they shall not climb more than 4 ft off the ground without using a fall restraint device. I qualified to free climb but only after being trained and qualified on a fall restraint.

[iwlv433]

That's the worst " training " I've ever heard of.

I've trained guys... From New Zealand to the UK , Ireland . And Saudi Arabia ..

I HAVE NEVER LET ANYONE FREE CLIMB A POLE ... We used to free climb towers ( pylons) years ago ( the 80,s).

What we do is get the guys going up and down poles. With x arms at the top,, so they can't slide their belts over the top of a pole while watching their feet.. As first timers often do..

NOBODY. should be free climbing nowadays ... It's against the law here in Europe .. Don't know about over the pond ??? But some one on here will tell us shortly.. We used to put a circle of poles up and after a few days I would get them playing games.. Throwing a ball between the guys at the top " to get used to working with both hands.. Who ever dropped the ball had to go down an get it.. Etc etc... Who ever is running this circus wants a SLAP. !

It's pure BS. I'd walk away and tell them to shove it...

SHOUTING AT GUYS COZ THEY FEEL UNSAFE. IS PURE STUPIDITY ...

I'm over thirty years a linesman and I'm SHOCKED... :(

Wow I feel a lot better I thought it was total bull **** also, guys falling left and right, people dropping from dehydration cause cause they tell you when you can drink water and come to find out someone almost got killed there from climbing over the top of a 60 foot pole what kind of crap is this. They show you how to tie wire once on the ground then tell you to go do it 60 feet up when you can barely climb, And people want the job so bad that they do things there uncomfortable with and get hurt. because if you act like you need extra help they chastise you and tell you that your not going to pass you.

[iwlv433]

Non union outfit?????? You don't put people who never climbed before up a 60 in two days. You were supposed to frame and sag on a 60 after 2 days???? Sounds like Pike!!!

Not Pike it is a climbing school.

[duckhunter]

If they will have you working that way in learning to climb, what will they short-cut you with in energized work? You are not a qualified climber and need to be in a harness and lanyard until you are. Your sense of what is right and wromg will serve you well in whatever career you end up in. Good luck, but get the hell out of there.

[iwlv433]

If they will have you working that way in learning to climb, what will they short-cut you with in energized work? You are not a qualified climber and need to be in a harness and lanyard until you are. Your sense of what is right and wromg will serve you well in whatever career you end up in. Good luck, but get the hell out of there.

Thanks a lot I beat myself up for making the call that I did because it meant that i was no longer being considered for the job, and I have wanted to do this for a long time, but Im not going to do something I think is wrong and get someone else hurt or killed including myself.

[bren guzzi]

Thanks a lot I beat myself up for making the call that I did because it meant that i was no longer being considered for the job, and I have wanted to do this for a long time, but Im not going to do something I think is wrong and get someone else hurt or killed including myself.


Glad to here that some people have the courage of their convictions...
Your just the type of guy we need in this industry.. My guys are still fighting battles over here in the UK .. But it's like you guys need to seriously get your sh,t together over there..

If I knew of a place like that over here... I'd be over there. Burning the poles to the ground....
And getting the kids out of there... THIS IS ABUSE IN THE WORK PLACE.....

Respect to ya dude.. Keep your chin up and don't let this bad experience put you off..

[reppy007]

Good story,sadly it looks like the people running the class are more interested in getting someone hurt.Whats their rush anyway?....without even seeing the area Id bet the poles are chewed up pretty well.Back in the 80s we were sent to climbing school a few weeks after being hired...the class lasted two weeks,I cant recall when we climbed the 60...but it wasnt no two days into the class and we certainly didnt hang no arm on any 60.Our instructors were pretty hardcore,but not stupid like these idiots...sounds like they dont actually want to teach,and sounds like they prefer the more experienced guys....but to be real honest it sounds like your paying for a school and that they are more interested in George Washington,than they are teaching...whatever you decide be safe..hate to hear that kind of stupity is going on in this trade.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Not Pike it is a climbing school.

That's not a line school, it's a bad accident waiting to happen. The people running it should be put out of business......

[reppy007]

In your post you mention the word (invited) to the class.To kill my curiosity,are you guys paying to attend the so called class? Another question would be how long have these lunitics been running the so called class?

[rob8210]

Good for you , using your brains gets you an "Aplus". These ying yangs need to be put out of business. That is no way at all to treat young fellas you are willing to get into this trade and learn. If you were in my neck of the woods I would do everything in my power to get you hired on. By the way it is not legal to free climb here in Canada and hasn't been allowed in 20 years. I really don't care if it is union or not , this is a really bad situation. I have been in the trade 25 years.

[iwlv433]

In your post you mention the word (invited) to the class.To kill my curiosity,are you guys paying to attend the so called class? Another question would be how long have these lunitics been running the so called class?

No, not paying for this class, and I have no Idea how long they have been doing it this way, when asked why they dont use fall protection they said that if you have to do a pole top rescue it takes to long.

[iwlv433]

oh and if you dont have your own tools which is not a requirement to attend the class, they give you pos climbers that are dull and the gaffs are barely the required length and loose.

[reppy007]

I forgot something interesting....in your opinion,what are the ages of these instructors?I wonder what kinds of climbing experience they have.

[T-Man]

I agree with everyone on here about the proper way to learn this occupation. You said you were invited and there is no pay involved. . .That is strange, and a clue to me nobody will be held responsible when one of you get hurt. Then once these goofs say you can climb what company would think about hiring you with those credentials?

Something is fishy here.

Go to a vocational school and take electric distribution school, learn the trade from profesionals, put a resume in at a company that's hiring , learn their way of line work and for heavens sake do it safely.

This mess you told us about is a farse.IMO

[iwlv433]

Believe it or not this is a JATC Program For a union apprenticeship.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmmm sounds purdy shoddy to methere shud have been people alonside of you to point out any and all missteps by everyone

[reppy007]

Ill shut up after saying this...it doesnt pass the smell test...not something,but lots of somethings dont add up....why would a school/class invite and teach you guys the wrong ways..nothing here makes much sense,not much is adding up...how the hell did you find them or they find you?:D

[iwlv433]

Thats the feeling I got out out of it. They try to run it bootcamp style telling you when you can drink water and what not, when its 100 degrees outside, one guy passed out from dehydration and had to go to the hospital because the instructor wanted to act like bad ass. Thats just stupid to me because thats the idea behind a union is conditions isnt it, if you were on a job and you went to refill your water and they told you, no you cant have any fu#$%ing water until we tell you what would you do.

[iwlv433]

Ill shut up after saying this...it doesnt pass the smell test...not something,but lots of somethings dont add up....why would a school/class invite and teach you guys the wrong ways..nothing here makes much sense,not much is adding up...how the hell did you find them or they find you?:D

Its a climbing class you have to take to be indentured into a union apprenticeship program.

[iwlv433]

you fill out the application, if you make the minumum qualification, they call you for an interview, if you pass the interview then they invite you to a climbing class at the apprenticeship school, im sorry if it doesnt make sense im just trying not to give to much info as to which school yet. its through the UNION

[reppy007]

We are not blaming you,its new to me,I dont know anything about JATC,here either the company will train you or the union has their school at the hall.I was trained at the company....you say they interview you,if you pass they treat you like $hit...how old are these instructors?

[iwlv433]

the one that I had said enough is enough to was about 35, and the other 2 were about 55 or so.

[reppy007]

Im trying to figure this out...I wouldnt really call it a climbing class because they are going about it in the wrong way....sounds like they are weeding guys out,but going about that wrong too...

[iwlv433]

no it's a climbing class/orientation it's suppose to TEACH you how to climb

[T-Man]

A Union is about wages and working conditions, they survive on membership dues. How the heck is that going to work out if they run off or mame the very people they are trying to get into the trade? Are there so many candidates that are excellent climbers that they can afford to scare off the wannabees?. . . .I think not. Reppy is right, there are somethings here that just don't smell right here.

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

Now that you've gotten the opinions of the members who will respond, let's quit the guessing games. Unless you had no intentions from the get go of giving us the info, just spit it out.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Now that you've gotten the opinions of the members who will respond, let's quit the guessing games. Unless you had no intentions from the get go of giving us the info, just spit it out.

Totally agree, also agree with Rep, something don't smell right...

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmmmmmm where duz it say unions cant have some dumasses innem?

[lineman2010]

I think it is time to share which JATC program is supposedly doing this. I know the instructors in mountain states, my last groundsman just went through the great southwest climbing school, I have a CA/NV ape on my crew now, and also good friends with a groundsman that just got in at ALBAT. I will be interested in comparing stories if it is one of those JATCs.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Ummmmmmmmmmm where duz it say unions cant have some dumasses innem?

It don't, just look at me lol!

[iwlv433]

I believe that its not there first goal to teach people how to climb, its to see who the experianced people are and weed out the people like someone else said. Every single person who was in the experianced group had gone to a line school and they let them get out of the class early. They should have said that you needed climbing experience in the oral interview. I feel a lot better knowing that you guys think that I made the right choice. I really did have every intension to tell you guys what jatc this is but I dont know if i should.

[irishline]

Please dont tell me it is movalley , im trying like heck to get into movalley l im currently number1 on the list... im not quite sure what im getting my self into lu 55 desmoines iowa

[rob8210]

You can tell me , I am in another country.

[spark and bark]

I'll tell ya what, bud. OSHA would have a hayday with this post. You and your classmates are not QUALIFIED climbers. That means you cannot "freeclimb" higher than 6' without fall ARREST. (this is different than a skid/pole strap. that is work positioning) The smartest and best thing you could have done was come down. The macho, i can do it bull$hit just doesn't work when you are in a wheelchair or limping for the rest of your life. You want to be a lineman? Go union. Good training and schooling. If its border line shady, you can at least remedy the problem.

If its unsafe, dont do it!

[Orgnizdlbr]

I'll tell ya what, bud. OSHA would have a hayday with this post. You and your classmates are not QUALIFIED climbers. That means you cannot "freeclimb" higher than 6' without fall ARREST. (this is different than a skid/pole strap. that is work positioning) The smartest and best thing you could have done was come down. The macho, i can do it bull$hit just doesn't work when you are in a wheelchair or limping for the rest of your life. You want to be a lineman? Go union. Good training and schooling. If its border line shady, you can at least remedy the problem.

If its unsafe, dont do it!

Just a Question that I don't know the answer to. Does OSHA have jurisdiction over a pre apprentice program prior to being accepted for employment? Like I said, I don't know, it may be how they get away with this practice. Question for the OP, how many open spots are there?

[iwlv433]

Please dont tell me it is movalley , im trying like heck to get into movalley l im currently number1 on the list... im not quite sure what im getting my self into lu 55 desmoines iowa

No its no Movalley

[iwlv433]

I dont think OSHA has any Jurisdiction over it because if it did there is no way they would have done the thing they were doing. I was talking to some guys that have to to some great line schools and they said it was 100 percent fall protection at all times and they were not allowed to free climb at all. They said that when they went to school it was intense but nothing like this they said they were climbing the 60's at the end of the week with bucksqueeze though.

[reppy007]

I dont know why these guys wouldnt have a water cooler around,we always did...unless they were too lazy,our old instructor was on the pole showing us the basics way before we climbed.It doesnt sound like that happened in this case,or if it was,it wasnt much.

[iwlv433]

I'll tell ya what, bud. OSHA would have a hayday with this post. You and your classmates are not QUALIFIED climbers. That means you cannot "freeclimb" higher than 6' without fall ARREST. (this is different than a skid/pole strap. that is work positioning) The smartest and best thing you could have done was come down. The macho, i can do it bull$hit just doesn't work when you are in a wheelchair or limping for the rest of your life. You want to be a lineman? Go union. Good training and schooling. If its border line shady, you can at least remedy the problem.

If its unsafe, dont do it!

Thats the thing that that has me so shocked is that this is a Union Program, its not some rinky dink little school, I am a Union journeyman Ironworker and I know whats safe and whats not as far as climbing I know nothing about electrical anything, but in my trade I would never take an apprentice and put him in any position that I thought there was even a chance he could get hurt, the worst thing you could ever do is get someone else hurt or killed. I dont know about in linework but in my trade If I were to tell a pre apprentice to climb a 60 foot column and bolt up the connection at the top knowing that this apprentice has never even been on the iron before, and he fell and got hurt then not only am I going to be under investigation my OSHA but if the accident were serious enough I could be brought up on charges with law enforcement and be held criminaly liable for injuries or death. This is what has me so upset at the situation I felt like they had no reguard for my safety, I mean one of the instuctors was yelling at me when i was at the top of one of the 60's to take of my skid and put it inside the cross brace, tell me if you think that a four day in climbing student should be doing that ****. I refused to do it because I felt like that was totaly over my head skill level, if I would have tried to do what he said and fell 60 feet and gotten killed he would have been responsible. I feel like its just a matter of time before someone gets hurt or killed because of complete disreguard for people safety. When you are teaching someone new it is very important that you dont beat them down and chastise them because all that does is stress someone out and leads to them getting hurt, im sure we have all seen the video of the lineman doing the hurt man rescue and some jackoff starts yelling at this guy to cut the rope and gets the guy up the pole gets so flusterd and stressed that he cuts the wrong line or something and they both go in the hole.

[iwlv433]

I dont know why these guys wouldnt have a water cooler around,we always did...unless they were too lazy,our old instructor was on the pole showing us the basics way before we climbed.It doesnt sound like that happened in this case,or if it was,it wasnt much.

No they had a cooler full of water, but they only let you drink water when they told you that you could. And then after the guy passed out and had to go to the hospital, the next day they kicked him out because they said that he was a liability. So I guess that he told someone in his company that they wouldnt give him water when he needed it and they must have called down to the JATC and said what the hell, why arent you letting my guy have water, and the instructor completely denied it, but its funny because after that I didnt hear anyone telling us we couldnt drink water when we needed it after that. And they did show us how to climb but it takes time time to get the technique down plus they give you the oldest pos climbers that are loose and the screws are stripped out and the gaff lenght is below the minumum 1 1/4 the whole experiance was terrible the more I talk about it the more angry I become and the more I want to do about it.

[spark and bark]

that we should teach guys one thing and then tell them "welcome to the real world. Fall protection 100 percent for apes"? it doesnt really matter if osha really does have jurisdiction or not. would you let a grunt free climb up a 60? and then have him sag or clip 336? Its common sense, guys. If osha says its not ok, why should a climbing school that kids are paying money for or missing work to attend be allowed to break these? seems like teachers are dumb@sses and have no care for their brothers. Macho crap. you risk your life while i stand on the ground and tell everyone how stupid you are for shaking on top of a 60 footer... pretty sad

[iwlv433]

I knew that this just couldnt be right, what really makes me mad is that i had to quit my job spend like 1700 on a cdl and spend a ton of money on gas and hotel rooms to do this i put everything i had into it and it too bad it had to go the way it went but i would rather be safe then sorry.

[lineman2010]

I believe that its not there first goal to teach people how to climb, its to see who the experianced people are and weed out the people like someone else said. Every single person who was in the experianced group had gone to a line school and they let them get out of the class early. They should have said that you needed climbing experience in the oral interview. I feel a lot better knowing that you guys think that I made the right choice. I really did have every intension to tell you guys what jatc this is but I dont know if i should.

I am a journeyman lineman and proud member of the IBEW, you can sling crap however you want but if you are not willing to share which JATC this is (send me a message if you don't want to share it here) I an not going to believe you. For all I know you could be a nonunion hand just trying to talk crap about the union and by not giving more info there is no true way of verifying your story. If this is going on I want to know about it so it can be addressed.

Right now thus story is the same thing as me saying "hey guys, I knows the winning numbers to tonights lotto.... ..... I really had ever intention if sharing but I an not so sure anymore..." So what do you think guys, do I really know the numbers?

[iwlv433]

I am a journeyman lineman and proud member of the IBEW, you can sling crap however you want but if you are not willing to share which JATC this is (send me a message if you don't want to share it here) I an not going to believe you. For all I know you could be a nonunion hand just trying to talk crap about the union and by not giving more info there is no true way of verifying your story. If this is going on I want to know about it so it can be addressed.

Right now thus story is the same thing as me saying "hey guys, I knows the winning numbers to tonights lotto.... ..... I really had ever intention if sharing but I an not so sure anymore..." So what do you think guys, do I really know the numbers?

First of all, Im all for the union always have been always will be,I believe that the union makes true porfessionals, 2nd I dont care if you believe me or not, and 3rd thats the worst analogy I have ever heard. I have no reason to lie or try to make anyone believe union vs non union that isnt what im tryin to do at all. I honestly didnt know what kind of response i was going to get at first, I thought that I was going to be made fun of to tell you the truth. What can be done about it, what if anything could somebody say.

[Orgnizdlbr]

First of all, Im all for the union always have been always will be,I believe that the union makes true porfessionals, 2nd I dont care if you believe me or not, and 3rd thats the worst analogy I have ever heard. I have no reason to lie or try to make anyone believe union vs non union that isnt what im tryin to do at all. I honestly didnt know what kind of response i was going to get at first, I thought that I was going to be made fun of to tell you the truth. What can be done about it, what if anything could somebody say.

I also need to know where this is going on. If you don't want to do it publicly, send me a PM. If you won't share I'm very skeptical now.

[Bighorn Ape]

if you reeaaally want something done about this....type a well written, and truthful letter to HR and whoever else you can contact. send a letter the the 'lineman' that 'taught' you how to climb.

im not sure if it will change your personal situation, but maybe it will save someone else from injury or death...

we hadda teach a new guy to climb a while ago and we told him to stay around six feet for a while until he was comfortable with unbelting, rotating, coming down, working with two hands, etc... theres no need to do it 60ft high if ya havent done it near the ground.

good luck with finding another apprenticeship.

[bones]

I thought these boot camps were only on weekends?

How long do they last?

[lineman2010]

I thought these boot camps were only on weekends?

How long do they last?

All the JATCs have different length climbing schools, most are one or two Weeks long

[iwlv433]

if you reeaaally want something done about this....type a well written, and truthful letter to HR and whoever else you can contact. send a letter the the 'lineman' that 'taught' you how to climb.

im not sure if it will change your personal situation, but maybe it will save someone else from injury or death...

we hadda teach a new guy to climb a while ago and we told him to stay around six feet for a while until he was comfortable with unbelting, rotating, coming down, working with two hands, etc... theres no need to do it 60ft high if ya havent done it near the ground.

good luck with finding another apprenticeship.

Im thinking I will I know it wont change my situtation but maybe it will make things better for or safer for new people there. thanks for the advice

[lineman2010]

First of all, Im all for the union always have been always will be,I believe that the union makes true porfessionals, 2nd I dont care if you believe me or not, and 3rd thats the worst analogy I have ever heard. I have no reason to lie or try to make anyone believe union vs non union that isnt what im tryin to do at all. I honestly didnt know what kind of response i was going to get at first, I thought that I was going to be made fun of to tell you the truth. What can be done about it, what if anything could somebody say.

I know my analogy is not at all related and dumb, that was the point of if. There are union hands that can do something about what you at claiming. Myself and now another have asked for which one it is on this thread. We have both said if you do not want to share the name on here to send us a message in private. I am not saying you are making this a union vrs nonunion thread, I am implying that you are just making this an antiunion thread by bit being willing to share to the public or private which JATC it is. There is a difference.

I am more than willing to help fix the piss poor and reckless training that you claim is going , but I need some help if you want my help. I have no clue if you are telling the truth or not but anyone can sit behind a computer and say the sky is falling and follow it up with I have no reason to lie so I am not.

I will say it one more time, please send me a PM with which JATC, where the training class took place, an instructors name, and when the class happened (out are you still in it). Until I hear from you I am out and your claims are bogus.

[iwlv433]

Look Im not going to say which JATC this is, but if you want to do some research im fine with that all you would have to do is search my previous posts and you can pretty much put 2 and 2 together. I would hate for anyone to think that I wasnt telling the truth, Im being honest as I can I havent lied nor have I embellished. One of the reasons that I hesitated to post this thread is that I didnt want the school to make the union to look bad.

[busman]

At this time in the thread im not goint to say but I will later on I want peoples honest opinion before I let that info out.

It seems to me that you promised the members that you would identify the school in exchange for their advice. They kept their end.

Mark

[lineman2010]

Well from looking through your past posts it is either CA/NV it the great southwest. No clue on which one, when you were in the climbing school, or any real info can be gathered from your past posts. What I do know is that my last groundsman just finished his climbing school in Kansas in the great southwest jatc and he said the only time they free climbed was the very last day after passing the last climb test and the jatc certified them. I will bee making a call to my connection in CA/NV's jatc office a little later and see what he thinks about this supposed "story"

[iwlv433]

Ya do you what you feel you need to lineman 2010. My intentions are not to gossip and talk crap but it is that future kids not to get hurt or at least have a heads up that they need some good climbing experiance before. Or at least what to expect. Lineman2010 I wonder whos side your going to take when you call your contacts down there and they say we dont know what your talking about ofcourse your going to call bull**** on me but thats not what this thread is about. This thread is about not being hypocritical and if something is wrong its wrong no mater union or not, this story would not be hard to believe if it were pike doing this or some non union contractor running training this way. Again do not get the wrong impression I am all for the IBEW and I am all for the Union I have a dues receipt in my wallet at all times and I am pround member.

[lineman2010]

So I did some checking and have found out a little info on this subject.

The way to early info I an gathering is that there was a climbing school in the CA/NV area that had been shut down for unsafe practices. I an being told it is because the school was forcing the guys to cut out for done reason and the last straw was they had a guy climb right off the top of the Pole. This school is not a jatc school but a place where you could go and get a climbing cert to make your resume better for when you interviewed....

With hearing this it made me think about his comment about the of the climbers. When I went through Mountain States climbing school bashlin sponsored the school and we had all the different styles with little wear and the bashlin rep came bye and guys could order from him.

[iwlv433]

So I did some checking and have found out a little info on this subject.

The way to early info I an gathering is that there was a climbing school in the CA/NV area that had been shut down for unsafe practices. I an being told it is because the school was forcing the guys to cut out for done reason and the last straw was they had a guy climb right off the top of the Pole. This school is not a jatc school but a place where you could go and get a climbing cert to make your resume better for when you interviewed....

With hearing this it made me think about his comment about the of the climbers. When I went through Mountain States climbing school bashlin sponsored the school and we had all the different styles with little wear and the bashlin rep came bye and guys could order from him.

Im a little confused by your comment, its hard to understand what you are trying to say, the school you are talking about and the "school" I went to, are not the same Because the one I went to was a JATC.

[lineman2010]

Ok, the school I found out about being close down was in la and not linked to the jatc and was actually shut shewn about a year ago, so it was not the school you went to. I would still like more info in a pm. I am still just guessing it is CA/NV, bit sure though. One of the groundsmen in our yard is going to CA/NV climbing school on Monday so I will know how that class is treated very soon. I still have no idea why you are not willing to share even in a pm any actual info. If my research does not bring anything up of course I am going to say your story is crap fifor the simple reason that you won't share anything that can be confirmed our denied. You just have a story right now.

[gumbo]

Ya do you what you feel you need to lineman 2010. My intentions are not to gossip and talk crap but it is that future kids not to get hurt or at least have a heads up that they need some good climbing experiance before. Or at least what to expect. Lineman2010 I wonder whos side your going to take when you call your contacts down there and they say we dont know what your talking about ofcourse your going to call bull**** on me but thats not what this thread is about. This thread is about not being hypocritical and if something is wrong its wrong no mater union or not, this story would not be hard to believe if it were pike doing this or some non union contractor running training this way. Again do not get the wrong impression I am all for the IBEW and I am all for the Union I have a dues receipt in my wallet at all times and I am pround member. Who's side are you on grunt?? The man is trying to help you help the future victims of this charade, but you are in the way. If anyone gets hurt because of your lip lock.........it will be 100% your fault. Just exactly what are your intentions?? Get some folks to talk to you because you are lonely?? Or do something about this situation you describe?? One side of the fence or the other.

[iwlv433]

Im in the process of doing something about this right now.

[iwlv433]

Ya you guys are right I wouldnt want anyone to get hurt, and if there is a chance someone could change this and prevent accidents thats all I want its Ca/nv jatc

[rob8210]

Thanks now something will get done

[lineman2010]

Ya you guys are right I wouldnt want anyone to get hurt, and if there is a chance someone could change this and prevent accidents thats all I want its Ca/nv jatc


Thank you for finally sharing a little info with the brothers of your trade. Divided we fall....


I have not heard back from my lineman that is a class instructor (not a climbing school instructor) yet, but I know that a climbing class is starting this week and I know a groundsman that is in the class. I will report on how that class is going as I hear...

[reppy007]

Thank you for finally sharing a little info with the brothers of your trade. Divided we fall....


I have not heard back from my lineman that is a class instructor (not a climbing school instructor) yet, but I know that a climbing class is starting this week and I know a groundsman that is in the class. I will report on how that class is going as I hear...

Now the interesting part begins.

[CPOPE]

This has been an entertaining thread to say the least. I find it interesting how we choose to allow hazing and bullying as part of Apprenticeship. I would have liked to have witnessed this training and only have praise to anyone who stands up and advocates for proper training and work methods.

http://incident-prevention.com/incident-prevention-magazine-articles/article/190-apprenticeship-training.html

Under Pressure
Line work has always involved situations in which the younger, inexperienced worker learns from the older, more experienced worker, thus putting a great deal of pressure on the experienced worker to do things correctly. The problem with this arrangement is that the older worker doesn’t always do things safely because he learned from someone who didn’t do it safely either. Here is where good training can play an important part in developing good safety habits. The habits developed early in one’s career will often stay with them, especially if they are reinforced by a good mentor. Being able to work on different crews during an apprenticeship enables the individual to learn different ways, both good and bad.

Can a person begin his career this way today? Certainly, and many do. If they are with the right people, they will become good, safe lineworkers. However, there is another way to begin a career in line work today, and that is to attend a lineworker’s school. There are both private and public schools offering programs to prepare young men and women to become power lineworkers. Community colleges with technical programs generally offer power lineworker programs. These programs are as short as four months in the case of some of the private schools, or as long as two years at some community colleges that offer associate degree programs. For the individual who wants to receive a journeyman’s certificate from the U.S. Department of Labor, the apprentice needs additional schooling, which is often a distance learning program.

Benefits of Exposure
What are the benefits of this intensive short exposure to power line work? I’ve heard line superintendents and company owners both say they will teach apprentices to climb and that’s all they want. In fact, I’ve even heard them say, “Forget everything else – I’ll teach you what I want you to know from now on.” In some cases this philosophy may be all right, but after looking at what is available as a result of the development of lineworker schools, these old opinions should began to fade. True, the exposure these young people get is very short, but in terms of the learning curve, it will put them weeks ahead of off-the-street apprentices. Also, if the potential apprentice travels to attend a distant school, they will see if they can handle traveling and working away from home. So often the local student wants to stay where they grew up, but there are only so many openings for apprentices in any given area. Because of this preference, some good beginning apprentices drop out of the trade when there are no local jobs available. This indicates that perhaps they didn’t explore all aspects of this trade. Today’s mutual aid agreements between utilities likely mean the lineworker will at some point have to work away from home.

To successfully complete any apprenticeship program, the potential apprentice should carefully select a school. The school should likewise be selective in its admittance practices. Also, if future employers are selective in whom they choose, they will hire apprentices who successfully complete their programs and become good journeyman lineworkers.

I recently toured a private school and was very impressed with the equipment, the program and everything else they offered. I was envious of the opportunity the students attending this school have to learn about power line work. The students attend class in the morning and work outside during the afternoon as a crew with varying responsibilities. The field work is divided up so they will work on everything from underground to transmission lines, including climbing a lattice tower. The field work is also rotated so everyone in the class is exposed to all the procedures. With an indoor laboratory where they can learn about transformer connections, recloser operations and line switching procedures, they get a wide spectrum of training. Learning how the line-related equipment functions prepares the worker to become safer. While this may be an exceptional program, it indicates what is available for the individual who can afford a private school.

On-the-Job Training
Some apprenticeship programs have implemented on-the-job training (OJT) to provide students even greater learning opportunities. The apprentice candidate works in the field for the OJT and then attends classroom training. This is how union training has operated for years, but combining OJT with related classes helps the apprentice to better retain information from books. Putting together a program such as this could perhaps only be done with the united cooperation of a larger utility or by combining several utilities’ apprentices into a pool of workers. The idea could also be applied if one construction company were large enough to employ a number of apprentice candidates. The benefit of this would be the ability to move apprentices around to correlate their OJT with formal classroom education.

A very important factor in the development of a good lineworker is the mentoring they receive from other crew members. While discussing this subject with one of the apprentices I hired years ago who turned out to be a very talented lineman, he said he had to step back and look at the big picture of how the crew worked as a unit. When he could feel good about the members on the crew, he could have faith that they would only teach him the proper, safe way to do things. He was judging what kind of mentors his fellow workers would be. The apprentice must never forget that he is the individual most responsible for his safety, regardless with whom he works.

Apprenticeship training has come a long way, making line work safer today than it was 50 years ago. There are other factors contributing to its improved safety, such as better tools and equipment, but better training has certainly helped. Schooling will continue to improve as utilities and contractors see the benefits of hiring workers who have received some type of preliminary training. Crew foremen and journeyman lineworkers still need to remember that these are apprentices who are learning the trade. Help them learn the proper way.

[iwlv433]

That weird that this thread just ended so suddenly I thought for sure that there would be some more said after those groundmen get back from cal nev

[CPOPE]

Should we call them or just drop a dime on OSHA? LOL

http://www.calnevjatc.org/http://www.calnevjatc.org/
Contact Us

Office Numbers:
Phone: (951)685-8658
Fax: (951)685-9473

Staff Directory Listing:
Armando Mendez, Ext 14
Executive Director

Mark Anders, Ext 16
Assistant Director

Christina Resendez, Ext 11
Office Manager

Sunny White, Ext 13
Sr. Administrative Assistant

Yvonne Cordova, Ext 12
Administrative Assistant

Applications Desk, Ext 10

[iwlv433]

ya im just saying that there are cal-nev apes that have seen this thread and said nothing, looks good on my part i guess

[lineman2010]

I was off by a week, he finished guys third day today. They did split guys up by climbing experience and have made guys free climb as high as a 65 footer without having a climbing harness on. They were wearing safety harnesses witha lanyard connected to a rope. They have had as many water breaks as needed and also actual breaks. He did say that they had new instructors for this class however... He did not say why, but if their were issues I would say they have been resolved already.

[iwlv433]

I was off by a week, he finished guys third day today. They did split guys up by climbing experience and have made guys free climb as high as a 65 footer without having a climbing harness on. They were wearing safety harnesses witha lanyard connected to a rope. They have had as many water breaks as needed and also actual breaks. He did say that they had new instructors for this class however... He did not say why, but if their were issues I would say they have been resolved already.
I hope they have resolved the issues there, after the 3rd day or so is when I started seeing the BS so please keep us up dated I would hate for people to think that i was lying read my previous posts and you will see what im all about. Its going to be my word, some random guy on the internet vs. your buddy's word so im sure that your going to take his, but i just want things to get done with this BS school.

[lineman2010]

Did you ever call CA/NV jatc and tell then what was happening? It might be to late now but you might be able to get into a new class if what you said was happening with the last instructors. I just know that they gave changed instructors and the current class is being done in a manor that I expect JATC climbing classes to be ran.

[reppy007]

I think 2010 has a point....theres nothing to loose now,except the time you spent...you came too far..dont give up now..go 4 it!

[iwlv433]

Its been a while but I wanted to check back to see if anything ever came from this? I got to thinking about it the other day and just wanted to know if anyone has been to a class since

[Warren Sollars]

There is one natural fact; being sixty feet off the ground for the first time is an intimidating experience. It seems the instructors would be seeking careful safe workers instead of the foolhardy. There are "natural' climbers but they are rare the others need to be seasoned in to be comfortable while in the air. It's too bad you are caught in that trap, it's hard to break into the trade. Take your hooks home with you and climb trees or anything you can find until it is second nature then go and learn what to do when your up there. Good luck and don't give up please!! In have encountered many many truly ignorant people in my career and sometimes you have to suck it up and endure until you get to work with the real guys. But it ain't easy!!