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  1. #1

    Default Does anyone understand why we are bonding guys even with glass rods?

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    This is my second property where we bond the guys. With NG you bond in the air with a bond to first bare part below the rod. Which I don't understand especially with that gay squeeze. Then other properties you drive a rod in the vicinity near the anchor and tap to the bottom of the tail.

    Now that guy is going to be ground potential with the anchor if it has good tension and use a preform instead of those automatic attachments. Is it for cathodic protection?- like bridges. Or are they using it as alternative path to ground for equipment, or another bond to make the neutral more ground potential?

    Now the ***** clamps, or that neutral clamp thing instead of neutral glass for the neutral? The Canucks did that so when they grounded they would not have to put a pole band on. When they grounded, instead of neutral to pole band then to phases for equipotential. They would ground to the bolt sticking out if they used that clamp to the phases. But I don't believe the bolt is designed for current you would think?

    Can you tell their motive for bonding guys and clamps instead of glass for neutrals?

    And say you dead end one side with open wire, then dead end the other side with no glass, aren't you creating a hazard for the next man?

    I know a lot of people die pulling guys in corridors. I hear stories once a year about one pulling a guy and getting from the guy tail through his body to the rod. But bonding the guy in the air would be your last step, because pulling the guy has to be done first before bonding.

    As for public safety, if you bond the guy to ground then you would probably have to bond the rod also? But forget I suggest that then we would have more shot to do.

    Someone enlighten me what is the reason?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Ontario Canada
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    1,284

    Default

    We always put at least 1 5' glass rod at the primary fitting and we wil run multiple glass rods through the primary as compared to using a strut guy to go over the primary like they do in Florida, I will post a picture later. We never bond our guys to the neutral. We only install a hubbard clamp on our neutrals no glass. I have seen them a little in my travels in the states, some in Florida, but they use glass spools more. I prefer the hubbard to the spool it helps with bonding the pole and I see no advantage to isolating the neutral from the pole and likely you have messenger below that is clamped directly to your pole and periodally boneded to your sytem neutral anyway. When it comes to applying grounds we never use the bolt, but always apply our ground to the neutral as you are correct the bolt is not designed for fault current.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    549

    Default Grounding guys

    I can't speak for everyone's practice but at all Coops that I know or have worked with you run the neutral on porcelain to cut down on radio noise. A heavily loaded neutral , like a long single phase tap, laying directly on the steel will move some and make AM radio noise. That's why a lineman runs a bond wire from the pole ground to the neutral and then to the guy wire below the guy insulator so that everything is bonded together at ground level and the public can't be exposed to a voltage difference. BTW I have seen a 15 volt difference between the pole ground and an unbounded guy wire near a railroad track. We actually drew sparks when we bonded the guy to the pole. You also mentioned bonding the guy wire to the anchor rod Coops do this with a bolt clamp thru the eye of the rod, don't know your slang for the clamp we call them monkey balls.

  4. #4

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    Where I'm at if a guy is in the primary zone it gets a guy breaker or 2 or however many it takes to get it below the primary zone, it also gets bonded to the pole ground, no grounds at the anchor and no grounds on secondary guys, neutral tied in on insulator spools, neutrals deadended on eyebolts, neutral bonded to pole ground at every pole,just company specs.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,284

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    A couple of questions when you dead end neutrals on an eye bolt do you also use an insulator? If not why do you only insulate tangent poles and not dead end poles? When you bond your neutral to your pole ground are you not shorting out your spool insulator? As far as radio interference we have never had a problem with our Hubbard neutral clamps, mainly with loosely tied primary or cracked insulators.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Florida in the winter Canada in the summer.
    Posts
    340

    Default

    Remember that a good ground is one that is 25 ohms or less. In areas that it is hard to reach the 25 ohms some utilities have chosen to bond everything in hopes of lowering the over all resistance to the 25 ohms or less like REA's. Some places choose to insulate everything to isolate conductors instead of trying to meet the 25 ohms or less. Neither of the two ways is fool proof. There are good points and bad points to each method. These two methods follow the same rule as "work it hot or ground it dead". Hope this helps.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by US & CA Tramp View Post
    Remember that a good ground is one that is 25 ohms or less. In areas that it is hard to reach the 25 ohms some utilities have chosen to bond everything in hopes of lowering the over all resistance to the 25 ohms or less like REA's. Some places choose to insulate everything to isolate conductors instead of trying to meet the 25 ohms or less. Neither of the two ways is fool proof. There are good points and bad points to each method. These two methods follow the same rule as "work it hot or ground it dead". Hope this helps.
    I try to figure out why companies do the things they do. There was one utility that changed their guy spec 4 times in three months. And what's the purpose of things that make no sense?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
    I try to figure out why companies do the things they do. There was one utility that changed their guy spec 4 times in three months. And what's the purpose of things that make no sense?
    For some utilities if it made sense it wouldnt have a purpose....does that make sense?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by US & CA Tramp View Post
    Remember that a good ground is one that is 25 ohms or less. In areas that it is hard to reach the 25 ohms some utilities have chosen to bond everything in hopes of lowering the over all resistance to the 25 ohms or less like REA's. Some places choose to insulate everything to isolate conductors instead of trying to meet the 25 ohms or less. Neither of the two ways is fool proof. There are good points and bad points to each method. These two methods follow the same rule as "work it hot or ground it dead". Hope this helps.
    We only install a pole ground if their is a transformer on the pole(#4)or if the pole is a riser(1/0), but if it was up to me we would install one at every pole. Either way I don't see what that has to do on wether you isolate your neutral, when climbing over the neutral we don't worry about touching it and if it was insulated it could possibly be at a different potential, but having said that we use to insulate our neutrals and never had an issue. I still prefer the hubbard clamp, I find it stronger, easier (no tie wire) and it helps to bond your neutral to the pole.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,012

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    When I worked in the states we bonded down guys to the neutral, the thing I did not like was the fact that it introduced a ground potential into a work zone when working live primary. I do not accept a ground potential in my work zone when working live , its a deadly second point of contact. Depending on where we work , some utilities will use 1 glass rod in a primary down guy and some will use glass rods to get below the neutral. The concept of using the down guy to help lower the ohm reading of a ground is iffy. If that is a problem it would make more sense to either use larger down ground wire and multiple ground rods, or plates. Also we use a guy strain insulator installed 6 to 8 feet below the neutral , to protect the public. I was just thinking , by bonding the guy steel to the neutral and a down ground , then attaching it to the ground rod, wouldn't the possibility of a circulating current exist especially in higher voltage construction due to induction ? The same idea as a circulating current can exist with bracket grounding when there is another circuit inducing a charge on the grounded circuit.

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