Handling energized wire...Different thoughts....

[copperlineman]

I agree always cover second points and use a link stick or some other approved isolating device when using a web hoist. As far as using a link stick with the winch on your jib, yes if you are going to use the winch, but I have never used a link stick with my jib and most times just put the bare conductor in the jib unless moving small conductor with class 2 rubber. Does not work so well when moving large conductor and class 4 rubber and impossible with class 5 hard cover.

Not all of our jib booms were tested for insulation value even though some of the attachments were, so we used a short, 16", stick we called a "pig tail". It had a ring on one end to attach to the winch line hook and a curled up piece of steel on the other end that looked like a pigs tail and encased the conductor in the curl so it wouldn't come out. They came in different lengths, but, I've never seen one over 24". It was made just like a foam-filled hot stick and was rated for 100kv a foot just like the sticks. Had a capacity of a couple thousand pounds. (more than the winch itself). We could raise just about any size wire with it. Without the pig-tail, we could choke the rope winch line around the rubber hose on the conductor. Either way, the conductor was insulated and the truck boom was the isolation.
Some companies do not allow a hot conductor to be raised with a winch because you don't know how much it weighs unless you use an in-line scale (some kind of dino something meter). Some companies don't allow the bucket to be moved if a hot conductor is connected to the jib. Our company allowed both as long as we used the common sense we always told them we had!

[psu927]

Not all of our jib booms were tested for insulation value even though some of the attachments were, so we used a short, 16", stick we called a "pig tail". It had a ring on one end to attach to the winch line hook and a curled up piece of steel on the other end that looked like a pigs tail and encased the conductor in the curl so it wouldn't come out. They came in different lengths, but, I've never seen one over 24". It was made just like a foam-filled hot stick and was rated for 100kv a foot just like the sticks. Had a capacity of a couple thousand pounds. (more than the winch itself). We could raise just about any size wire with it. Without the pig-tail, we could choke the rope winch line around the rubber hose on the conductor. Either way, the conductor was insulated and the truck boom was the isolation.
Some companies do not allow a hot conductor to be raised with a winch because you don't know how much it weighs unless you use an in-line scale (some kind of dino something meter). Some companies don't allow the bucket to be moved if a hot conductor is connected to the jib. Our company allowed both as long as we used the common sense we always told them we had!

Well said. Covering up conductors within the "minimum approach distance" is, (or should be) a given. Lots of great input fellas.

[lewy]

Not all of our jib booms were tested for insulation value even though some of the attachments were, so we used a short, 16", stick we called a "pig tail". It had a ring on one end to attach to the winch line hook and a curled up piece of steel on the other end that looked like a pigs tail and encased the conductor in the curl so it wouldn't come out. They came in different lengths, but, I've never seen one over 24". It was made just like a foam-filled hot stick and was rated for 100kv a foot just like the sticks. Had a capacity of a couple thousand pounds. (more than the winch itself). We could raise just about any size wire with it. Without the pig-tail, we could choke the rope winch line around the rubber hose on the conductor. Either way, the conductor was insulated and the truck boom was the isolation.
Some companies do not allow a hot conductor to be raised with a winch because you don't know how much it weighs unless you use an in-line scale (some kind of dino something meter). Some companies don't allow the bucket to be moved if a hot conductor is connected to the jib. Our company allowed both as long as we used the common sense we always told them we had!

It sounds like you are talking about a spiral link stick and yes they are good for I believe 3000lbs and most winches are good for 2000lbs with the jib in the right position. All of our jibs are tested and I have never had the need to use the winch when moving conductor, I find you don't have the same control and you can't move the conductor behind you with a link stick. I believe you about some companys not allowing to lift with a winch without a dyno, but it makes no sense as the weight being lifted is going to be no where near max capacity and as far as not allowing a bucket to be moved when handling a live conductor is just simply a case of somebody not understanding what we do when changing insulators or transferring to a new pole.

[bobbo]

Just use common sense. Is the structure wet or dry? Are you rigged to a shoe with a poly? Is it a cut and kick and everything goes right back? I haven't moved too much dead wire. Is the arm bonded? Is their arresters? You can quote one company policy and another. But the old rule was link stick if wet, about to rain or your leaving overnight. And for moving wire for three minutes web or clean slacks was fine or nylon sling clean. Did in with
19.9 for years. Some bodies eyes are rolling out there. If you treat your web hoists like **** and your rope is all dirty because your company is too cheap or not knowledgeable to replace web straps and insulate your rigging like crazy. Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out. I am tired of guys that don't think! You can't go to a 6 month lineman college and jump in this. Think! Use your brain! I had a foreman who made me tie macs on top of insulators for overnight and ten years back we taped them to DA bolts for 6 mos. on a 250 pole job. And never had a problem. If my foreman worked where I worked and saw a mechanical jumper rated with 20 kv insulation could hang in there for 6 mons. On a d a bolt with 19.9, if he saw it and thAt was normal work practice, he wouldn't have had me tie in a Mac for 4800, not touching anything, my old yards would have thought he slightly homo. But that's how the guy was. You do what you are comfortable with and what you know! My indoctrination into line work was a lot different. My foreman said don't be afraid of this **** and we would grab 7200 out of the bucket with our bare hands, to show me it was isolated. I think every apprentice did it in those parts. It was a don't be a ***** world. And those guys are all still working and are **** good lineman. That's how it was! If they did that today lawyers would be all over the place. And we climbed and gloved 7200, 19.9 in very rare instances, then I found out we weren't suppose to do it. I didn't like it because your armpits would burn, but I did it! Work practice varies from county to county, state to state. That's why good lineman have travelled!

[rob8210]

I agree with Bobbo, too many companies are taking the thinking out of linework. Some of the practices we learned years ago are still very useful today. The problem is with some of the trainers and some of the safety people. Remember the old saying, " those that can do, those that can't , teach. " A lot of the young fellas today, don't think about what they are doing. Heck I worked with one young journeyman ( just topped out) relocate a single phase 27.6kv dead end to a new pole with rope blocks, and he didn't know any better. Common sense , a knowledge of your equipment , and a bit of thinking will get an awful lot of work done. Treat your equipment properly. Rubber up where you need too, plan your work, work smarter not harder, use the equipment you have properly, and the right attitude, and a good lineman can do anything , safely and efficiently!

[copperlineman]

Just use common sense. Is the structure wet or dry? Are you rigged to a shoe with a poly? Is it a cut and kick and everything goes right back? I haven't moved too much dead wire. Is the arm bonded? Is their arresters? You can quote one company policy and another. But the old rule was link stick if wet, about to rain or your leaving overnight. And for moving wire for three minutes web or clean slacks was fine or nylon sling clean. Did in with
19.9 for years. Some bodies eyes are rolling out there. If you treat your web hoists like **** and your rope is all dirty because your company is too cheap or not knowledgeable to replace web straps and insulate your rigging like crazy. Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out. I am tired of guys that don't think! You can't go to a 6 month lineman college and jump in this. Think! Use your brain! I had a foreman who made me tie macs on top of insulators for overnight and ten years back we taped them to DA bolts for 6 mos. on a 250 pole job. And never had a problem. If my foreman worked where I worked and saw a mechanical jumper rated with 20 kv insulation could hang in there for 6 mons. On a d a bolt with 19.9, if he saw it and thAt was normal work practice, he wouldn't have had me tie in a Mac for 4800, not touching anything, my old yards would have thought he slightly homo. But that's how the guy was. You do what you are comfortable with and what you know! My indoctrination into line work was a lot different. My foreman said don't be afraid of this **** and we would grab 7200 out of the bucket with our bare hands, to show me it was isolated. I think every apprentice did it in those parts. It was a don't be a ***** world. And those guys are all still working and are **** good lineman. That's how it was! If they did that today lawyers would be all over the place. And we climbed and gloved 7200, 19.9 in very rare instances, then I found out we weren't suppose to do it. I didn't like it because your armpits would burn, but I did it! Work practice varies from county to county, state to state. That's why good lineman have travelled!

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here bobbo. Are you that set against company policy? Are you that set against training? I'm not sure I understand where you and rob8210 are coming from.
From your post above; "Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out." Where did you learn how to think it out? Where did you get the basis for this type of thinking? Did you figure it out all by yourself, or did someone "train" you when you were a young lineman?
There's a lot of company procedures, practices, and safety rules that are very good. Most training for linemen DO teach a man to think, but he has to have a good foundation to base that thinking on, just like the examples you stated. I was taught some of those old ways also, but I thank God some of them are gone too.
Sorry for disagreeing with you, but I couldn't let this pass without a comment.

[rob8210]

Some of the old ways are gone for good reasons, but some are still valid today. What I am trying to say is, a lot of experience is gained by travelling around to different companies and different areas of the country and seeing how line work is done there. There are all kinds of ways to do any one job , fellas like Bobbo are just stating that ideas that work are ok on some properties but not others, and when questioned the reasons aren't very valid. Take the example of the insulated jumper, lets assume it has been properly tested. That being the case would it really matter if it was wrapped around a crossarm? Is there any reason it would have to be tied into an insulator. Another example, I worked for a years at utilities before becoming a contractor. A couple of years back I worked for a larger utilities hiring hall. We were on a job one night changing out poles under an outage . To get the outage a single phase 4kv had to be isolated, but the tap was made very unusual. I said , no problem open the switch , I will remove the tap by hand ( with rubbers). I was promptly told " no rubber gloving after dark, company rules". The point is company rules are different from place to place, not wrong, just different. It doesn't mean that the work procedure is wrong or unsafe , just not allowed. Take the ground to ground rubber glove rule, there are still places this rule hasn't come to yet, and as long as the lineman are properly trained and follow the work procedures, then its not an issue, it just requires a lineman to pay attention to his surroundings while he is working. I have worked in the states where gloves and sleeves are the rule, and watched guys working past their gloves, relying on their sleeves. Again the point is when guys are trained and follow the work methods correctly , and use common sense, anything can be done . The rules are different where you work and where I work, when I come work there I am expected to follow your rules, even if they are very different from what I am used to.

[psu927]

I agree with Bobbo, too many companies are taking the thinking out of linework. Some of the practices we learned years ago are still very useful today. The problem is with some of the trainers and some of the safety people. Remember the old saying, " those that can do, those that can't , teach. " A lot of the young fellas today, don't think about what they are doing. Heck I worked with one young journeyman ( just topped out) relocate a single phase 27.6kv dead end to a new pole with rope blocks, and he didn't know any better. Common sense , a knowledge of your equipment , and a bit of thinking will get an awful lot of work done. Treat your equipment properly. Rubber up where you need too, plan your work, work smarter not harder, use the equipment you have properly, and the right attitude, and a good lineman can do anything , safely and efficiently!

Common sense-something a company wants you to use but not have. Or something like that.

[bobbo]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here bobbo. Are you that set against company policy? Are you that set against training? I'm not sure I understand where you and rob8210 are coming from.
From your post above; "Don't do it because you read it, or someone told you that is correct procedure, do it because it was the best choice and you thought it out." Where did you learn how to think it out? Where did you get the basis for this type of thinking? Did you figure it out all by yourself, or did someone "train" you when you were a young lineman?
There's a lot of company procedures, practices, and safety rules that are very good. Most training for linemen DO teach a man to think, but he has to have a good foundation to base that thinking on, just like the examples you stated. I was taught some of those old ways also, but I thank God some of them are gone too.
Sorry for disagreeing with you, but I couldn't let this pass without a comment.

i am not against any company policy or work practice that is well thought out and people enforcing it are knowledgeable. If I am untying phone do I really need 20 kv gloves and sleeves? If I am working on secondary on a lift pole or secondary pole with a million squeeze ons do I need a 4 by 4 20 kv primary blanket and 20 kv primary gloves and sleeves or can I just wear,some class 0s and cover widows on secondary with a small secondary blanket, which you are,suppose to use, because they are the right tools. If you offer stupid then I would rather wear leathers and not use any cover because to have otherwise You cause yourself greater risk to yourself and probably hi potting a house sometime, putting together little connectors and small wire with boxing gloves. A pair of Dry Kunz was the proper glove for secondary for a long time, now those are 80 dollars. Then they gave you class 0s for secondary, those are thirty dollars a piece. Now they got so cheap is you wear your primary 20 kv gloves for a #8 kearneys on streetlight, why because it's cheap. And that's stupid.

If I am working on a ring fed B phase grounded delta system is it safer to cone off my truck than ground it? And if the safety man is screaming to put a ground on the truck, and introducing a 2nd ground on delta is that a wise thing to do? Are you safer or more in danger? Now if all the personnel know the system and what to do if a truck goes hot isn't that better than having a potential bomb for the public and fellow workers?

Nobody is thinking anymore! Think! Be smarter!

[Lineman North Florida]

I don't really understand the whole wearing rubber gloves and sleeves on a dead&grounded distribution line, you either work it live ( hot ) with rubber gloves or sticks or dead ( de-energized ) and properly grounded with leather gloves, if it makes someone feel better to wear their rubber gloves while they are working on a dead and properly grounded line fine by me, but I don't need anybody telling me to do it, kinda goes hand in hand with the whole cradle to cradle rubber glove rule, whatever happened to proper training and proper use of rubber cover to do gloving work on distribution without having to wear primary gloves 24/7, I'm glad I don't work for such a company.