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  1. #11
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    Feb 2007
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    Hartford, South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trbl639 View Post
    Right on both counts!!


    Is that the reason I see a lot of bow and arrow poles when driving through the country?

  2. #12
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by old lineman View Post
    I don't think my brain could take the calculations but heres what linemen need to see. I think!
    Change the lead from 30 ft. to 20 ft. and re-calculate.
    Why I say this is that often there isn't enough easement for a proper lead and I believe that is the reason the proper sag gets lost.
    The Old Lineman

    That is why you would have your dead end pole done properly and use a slack span to get to your next easement take off. A slack span looks better than a D.E. pole that is leaning into the tension or bowed out of shape.

  3. #13
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    Jan 2008
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    South Arkansas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highplains Drifter View Post
    Is that the reason I see a lot of bow and arrow poles when driving through the country?
    Could be.............some times the guys forgot to loosen some of the and tighten others.............i was usually just punching holes and hooking em, left the grounded jl's and apes do that crap
    Old Lineman Never Die......We Just Don't Raise Our Booms As Often

  4. Default Easements aren't always available

    We had a situation where the proper easement wasn't available and we had to deadend twin circuits with secondariry and CATV with Tel.
    Dug a trench laid in a dead man timber, poured about 3 cubic yards of concrete on top, back filled and nothing ever moved.
    More cost but better appearance and reliability for the ages.
    I think that is money well spent.
    The Old Lineman

  5. #15
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Ontario Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by old lineman View Post
    We had a situation where the proper easement wasn't available and we had to deadend twin circuits with secondariry and CATV with Tel.
    Dug a trench laid in a dead man timber, poured about 3 cubic yards of concrete on top, back filled and nothing ever moved.
    More cost but better appearance and reliability for the ages.
    I think that is money well spent.
    The Old Lineman
    We call them a slug, seen places where a double helix would not hold because of soil conditions, but the slug did not budge.
    As far as using formulas in the field cant say as we do either, but it helps for new guys to see what kind of weight they are dealing with, whether guying, lifting conductor, dead ending or bi-sect tension. Also they can see by putting the anchor farther away there is less tension on the guy & anchor.

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lewy View Post
    We call them a slug, seen places where a double helix would not hold because of soil conditions, but the slug did not budge.
    As far as using formulas in the field cant say as we do either, but it helps for new guys to see what kind of weight they are dealing with, whether guying, lifting conductor, dead ending or bi-sect tension. Also they can see by putting the anchor farther away there is less tension on the guy & anchor.

    Call it what you want but basically we used railroad ties (will never rot).
    One thing that wasn't mentioned was that you should never ever use web hoists for this work. Seen it done.
    Wrong environment and will become contaminated. It is a live line tool first and last. Never designed for these tensions.
    The Old Lineman

  7. #17
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    Feb 2007
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    Ontario Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by old lineman View Post
    Call it what you want but basically we used railroad ties (will never rot).
    One thing that wasn't mentioned was that you should never ever use web hoists for this work. Seen it done.
    Wrong environment and will become contaminated. It is a live line tool first and last. Never designed for these tensions.
    The Old Lineman
    We use old pole butts that are treated.
    I agree you should never use web hoists on the ground, but as far as tension the largest chain hoist we have is ton & a half, we also have 2 ton Lugall web hoists that we have to use for tensioning our neutral on spun buss because the chain will not get it tight enough.
    Last edited by lewy; 11-27-2010 at 11:17 AM.

  8. #18
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    Jan 2008
    Location
    South Arkansas
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    We called em Dead Man anchors or Log anchors........before the company quit buying them, when we did use a log anchor, we used an old pole butt, and wrapped them with 'Kotex'...a treatment wrap that was used to butt treat old poles that we re-set.............sometimes we used helix anchors when we could........

    We did a 795 job and used 12K anchors and 7/16 guy, one per phase, on one vertical 90 degree angle pole...engineers checked the tension, and said the anchors were holding 20K pounds, so we came back and added 8k pound anchors and 5/16 guy, again 1 per phase.......engineers were happy...only trouble, the DE bells were only rated at 5k pounds!!!!!

    so much for engineers........
    Old Lineman Never Die......We Just Don't Raise Our Booms As Often

  9. #19
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    Feb 2007
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    Ontario Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trbl639 View Post
    We called em Dead Man anchors or Log anchors........before the company quit buying them, when we did use a log anchor, we used an old pole butt, and wrapped them with 'Kotex'...a treatment wrap that was used to butt treat old poles that we re-set.............sometimes we used helix anchors when we could........

    We did a 795 job and used 12K anchors and 7/16 guy, one per phase, on one vertical 90 degree angle pole...engineers checked the tension, and said the anchors were holding 20K pounds, so we came back and added 8k pound anchors and 5/16 guy, again 1 per phase.......engineers were happy...only trouble, the DE bells were only rated at 5k pounds!!!!!

    so much for engineers........
    You did guy both ways not just bisect the corner?
    Was it also 1 anchor per phase or 1 guy per phase going to the same anchor?
    Your anchor tension is usually almost double your line tension, depending how far the anchor is away.
    How long were the spans, I am asking because that is really high compared to what I work with, the largest wire we use is 556 & spans around 150' so we would be no where near that kind of tension.
    We normally use 3/8 guy steel good for 13000lbs unless it is guying something crossing a railway, waterway or major highway then we us 7/16 good for 19000 lbs

  10. Default

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    Quote Originally Posted by scratchpad View Post
    Guy Tension = T X square root of L sq. + H sq. / L

    H= height of guy attachment
    L= length of guy lead
    T= tension of the conductors held by the down guy

    Their figure has the guy attachment 50ft. from ground level, guy length at 58ft., guy lead at 30 ft. and conductor tension at 1,000lbs.

    so their answer to their figure is

    Guy Tension = 1,000 X square root of 30 sq. + 50 sq. / 30 = 1,944lbs.
    First off: sorry for pinging such an old thread but ive tried searching for this proper formula for a while now and finally figured it out. The formula you posted isnt necessarily wrong, however it is missing important parenthesis ( ) that make this equation make sense.

    Here is the proper formula for anyone that may come across this again.

    T=tension of conductors
    H=height of guy attachment
    L=Length of guy lead

    Guy Tension= T( sqrt ( L^2+H^2) / L )

    With the given numbers you should have 1000 x ( sqrt (30^2+50^2) / 30)

    according to PEMDAS:
    1st solve parenthesis
    2nd exponents
    3rd multiplication
    4th division
    5th addition
    6th subtraction

    so first you must solve the inner most parenthesis which is ( L^2+H^2)

    To solve we follow PEMDAS again and solve the exponents first which gives us ( 900+2500 )

    Then solve the addition which gives us (3400)

    Now our formula is simplified slightly to 1000 ( sqrt (3400) / 30)

    Next step is to solve the sqrt before anything else. this gives us 1000 ( 58.3095189/ 30)

    Then we solve the inner parenthesis division of 58.3095189/30 which = 1.94365063

    then we can finish the solving of our simplified formula which is now 1000(1.94365063)

    1000 x 1394365063 = 1943.65063 round to the nearest whole number which gives us 1944lbs.


    Hopefully this is written up in a way that anyone can understand. I hope it helps someone because without the proper placement of the parenthesis this formula will simply give you the wrong answer every time.

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