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  1. #21
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highplains Drifter View Post
    So you don't test your lines before installing grounds? Are you assuming it is de-energized? No way I'd allow cold apes to do it. Are you referring to gang operated switches or hook switches?
    We always test before grounding.
    Usually after following an OTO & placing the appropriate tagging & testing (with a chance tester attached to a stick) the line is in fact isolated, then the ape would install the grounds.
    When installing the grounds the end of the stick is grounded (should be) & so is the line once he attaches it, so where is the hot work.
    I am talking about all switching , one of the few times is on the ug when you mite be moving a live elbow.
    As far as open & closing line switches or operating gang operated switches I do not consider this live line work.
    Again we will let our apes do this under supervision long before they will get in a bucket & do actual live line work either hands on or with sticks.

  2. #22
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    Feb 2007
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    Hartford, South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewy View Post
    We always test before grounding.
    Usually after following an OTO & placing the appropriate tagging & testing (with a chance tester attached to a stick) the line is in fact isolated, then the ape would install the grounds.
    When installing the grounds the end of the stick is grounded (should be) & so is the line once he attaches it, so where is the hot work.


    I guess you have never had an eight in arch from induction when installing grounds.




    I am talking about all switching , one of the few times is on the ug when you mite be moving a live elbow.


    No way will I move a hot pot head, I'll drag and get a different job if that is required. Your a braver soul then me.



    As far as open & closing line switches or operating gang operated switches I do not consider this live line work.
    Again we will let our apes do this under supervision long before they will get in a bucket & do actual live line work either hands on or with sticks.
    I ask about hook switches, maybe you call them solid blade disconnects, but one uses a switch stick to operate them. The only place I have ever had two feet on the ground to operate these is in a substation, otherwise they are pole mounted. I guess then any unskilled person can open and close switches in your mind.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highplains Drifter View Post
    I ask about hook switches, maybe you call them solid blade disconnects, but one uses a switch stick to operate them. The only place I have ever had two feet on the ground to operate these is in a substation, otherwise they are pole mounted. I guess then any unskilled person can open and close switches in your mind.
    You are putting words in my mouth it is a progression I will let an ape test & ground before he will work live the same with switching.
    As far as drawing an 8 inch arc no I never have & I have installed plenty of grounds under 500 kv lines, even unfortunatley saw a journeyman burnt movin a ground with leather gloves no stick under the 500 (dumb) I was several spans away.
    Sometimes we have to move live elbows in u.g. switching it is fairly routine as far as calling u.g. switching routine goes, all of our new transformer have internal switches, but there are still times when you have no choice but to operate a alive elbow.
    All of the tasks above are part of the skills learned to be a journeyman, & yes they have there hazards, but in my opinion they are not the same as liveline work.

  4. #24
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    Sep 2004
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    Heart of Virginia, USA
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    As far as drawing an 8 inch arc no I never have & I have installed plenty of grounds under 500 kv lines, even unfortunatley saw a journeyman burnt movin a ground with leather gloves no stick under the 500 (dumb) I was several spans away

    interesting.... I saw the sun come up this morning how far away is that...


    ffs

    Edge

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by lewy View Post
    We always test before grounding.
    Usually after following an OTO & placing the appropriate tagging & testing (with a chance tester attached to a stick) the line is in fact isolated, then the ape would install the grounds.
    When installing the grounds the end of the stick is grounded (should be) & so is the line once he attaches it, so where is the hot work.
    I am talking about all switching , one of the few times is on the ug when you mite be moving a live elbow.
    As far as open & closing line switches or operating gang operated switches I do not consider this live line work.
    Again we will let our apes do this under supervision long before they will get in a bucket & do actual live line work either hands on or with sticks.
    "IF IT'S NOT GROUNDED IT'S NOT DEAD!" I'm sure you all have heard that little ditty? I hope! So until you have ACTUALLY PERFORMED THE STEP of grounding (which in most areas comes after testing and BEFORE TAGGING!) it's considered "HOT" which means it goes down in a log as "HOT WORK!" Sure AFTER it's grounded it's then "DEAD!"

    Gish you guys....."Which came first the chicken or the .......?"

    OH yeah and if you're moving an energized elbow with either a "tested" or "untested" (with rubber of course) shotgun it's still considered "HOT" work or you wouldn't need the dam stick or gloves! If you operating gang switches or any switch and that is energized you have some kind of "isolation" between you and it so again it's "HOT WORK!" I know it's just your opinion but you shouldn't down play the seriousness of the fact you still can't consider ANYTHING "DEAD" until it's "GROUNDED!"
    Last edited by MI-Lineman; 11-21-2010 at 09:37 AM.

  6. #26
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    I agree if its not grounded its not dead. That is why we can only work on either energized lines or grounded lines not isolated lines.
    Up here our utility work protection code says we have to test & ground after we have placed our tags (multiple open points) & given a work permit.
    When ever we are switching or installing grounds we must wear our rubber gloves safety glasses & minimum 6' gripall.
    We let our apes know of the hazards that are involved in switching, on a personnel note I have been very fortunate to have only experienced a couple of minor ones.
    I am not trying to diminish the hazards of switching or installing grounds, I know the potential is there to get badly hurt or even killed, but if an ape in his third year comes to me & I ask him if he has worked live & what has he done & he says only installing grounds & switching I consider him to have no experience working live, it is not the same as someone who has been hands on changing insulators, moving conductor to new pole or making taps as just a few examples.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by lewy View Post
    I agree if its not grounded its not dead. That is why we can only work on either energized lines or grounded lines not isolated lines.
    Up here our utility work protection code says we have to test & ground after we have placed our tags (multiple open points) & given a work permit.
    When ever we are switching or installing grounds we must wear our rubber gloves safety glasses & minimum 6' gripall.
    We let our apes know of the hazards that are involved in switching, on a personnel note I have been very fortunate to have only experienced a couple of minor ones.
    I am not trying to diminish the hazards of switching or installing grounds, I know the potential is there to get badly hurt or even killed, but if an ape in his third year comes to me & I ask him if he has worked live & what has he done & he says only installing grounds & switching I consider him to have no experience working live, it is not the same as someone who has been hands on changing insulators, moving conductor to new pole or making taps as just a few examples.
    I agree but I guess where I'm at the apes will be doin more than just the grounding. What ever their classification allows they'll be doin and the "groundin" will be included in the "hot" work portion leadin to the "dead" work portion!

    Here we have to "test, ground, then tag." Just different procedures I guess?

  8. #28
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    Oct 2006
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    South East Texas
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    I reckon ya hafta count grounding and un- grounding as hot work if you consider how many youngsters have been hurt removing or installing the wrong lead first.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    if it was any of your business you would know
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    324

    Default X fuse curves

    I noted that S&C doesnt list the X time fuse anymore.

    It's been a while since I've seen any X fuses...FPL stocked some 1/4-11/2 amp X's for testing transformers... we did not have a transformer or cable riser on the company tables that called for a X type small value fuse.

    I wont say this is a fact... but I'd guess that those old X fuses were instantaneous ... since we used em for testing equipment for faults

    Several of you guys get a cookie.

  10. #30

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    You can learn more about fusing curves here http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/s...s/fuse-curves/

    I don't think anyone makes the X anymore.

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