when installing grounds/what do u use

[Lineman North Florida]

I'll be the second guys to admit placing the ground end of the jumper on a neutral with leather gloves. It's the neutral. It's ground potential. It does carry current, but that's why you don't open it, it's not why you can't touch it without rubber gloves.
Our neutrals were clamped to the pole and not insulated on a spool insulator. We wanted them grounded as best we could. The neutral was at the same potential as the pole we were standing on. Doesn't make much sense to put rubber gloves on your hands when your feet are around the ground wire attached to the neutral.

Do you use primary rubber gloves to attach a house service neutral conductor to the system neutral? Then do you take off the primary gloves and put on secondary gloves to attach the 120v phases?
Do you wear gloves to install a staple on a ground wire? It's attached to the neutral, so is it treated the same?
What is the problem using leather gloves to attach one end of a ground jumper to the neutral with the other end isolated and probably across your belt or lying in the bucket next to your uncovered leg? Then...you use a hot stick to ground the object (that was previously energized) being grounded.

If I gave the impression in my post that I hadn't put grounds on a neutral with leathers that was not my intention, the original question was what tool did we use to install grounds with, I took it for granted that most places that don't have a ground to ground rubber glove policy probably have no problem putting the ground on the neutral conductor by hand with leather gloves and the phases with a shotgun stick, that is usually how I do it with the exception of if I am grounding transmission or distribution with a static and no neutral.

[rob8210]

We used to connect a ground to the neutral with leather gloves, but most utilities here have gotten really crazy strict about the ground to ground rubber glove rule. Most places have an un-insulated neutral too, so no reason to be at a different potential.

[kooman]

It really bothers me that there are guys that work primary neutrals without rubber gloves and think its ok to do so.

[lewy]

I see no problem touching the neutral with leather gloves, our neutrals are well below primary with multiple attachments to down grounds. Also our neutrals are not insulated & along with this the communication messenger below is bonded to our neutral. What about when you climb above it, does any part of your body touch the neutral?

[kooman]

This is one of those topics that can be argured all day long. my problem is the fact that the neutral carries current back to the source, and the path of least resistance is of course the neutra,l as long as it is not opened up, most of the current travels down the neutral and not down the pole grounds, however some current can travel down the pole grounds as well under certain circumstances i.e. a fault somewhere on that circuit such as a squirrel, or what if there is a cap. fuse blown somewhere on that circuit? Or lets say its a trans pole and the wire on the pole betweene the tank and the system neutral conductor, what happens if you get betweene that? So there could be a difference in potential from the neutral to the pole or down ground and we all know what a difference in potential can do. I know grabbing the neutral usually wont do anything to you but i think the neutral has gotten a sence of security among the new guys and they need to understand the "what if's" about it.

[Pootnaigle]

Ummmmmmmmm an even more dangerous thing is the practice of using A secondary neutral on a span of cable as a system neutral I have seen it done and its a trap for the feller that has the job of removing that span of secondary years later.It was real common in the Houston area years ago

[kooman]

Ummmmmmmmm an even more dangerous thing is the practice of using A secondary neutral on a span of cable as a system neutral I have seen it done and its a trap for the feller that has the job of removing that span of secondary years later.It was real common in the Houston area years ago

yea we still have some of those death traps left too.

[reppy007]

Poot is telling the truth,its as common as putting on your shoe's here,always has been that way since Ive known....so common that we dont see it as a trap...its that common.

[copperlineman]

It really bothers me that there are guys that work primary neutrals without rubber gloves and think its ok to do so.

Of course there are guys that work primary neutrals without rubber gloves. NEVER OPEN a neutral without jumpering across it first and wearing rubber gloves, but we're talking about touching a neutral and putting a grounding jumper on it. What is your company doing with the neutral that makes it so dangerous you can't touch it?
For you guys who practice "ground to ground" rubber gloves, you have to wear gloves all the time, I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about static neutrals or transmission. I'm talking a regular distribution wye system with a multi-grounded neutral. Transmission is a whole new game.
Around here, we ground the neutral at least every 600ft and at every equipment pole. NESC (who sets our rules) say ground rods must be 25 ohms of resistance or less. Ours are less than that and most of our grounds go 30 feet. Our neutrals are 1/0 minimum. Neutrals carry the unbalanced current, not all the current. Sounds like you guys should add more grounds and make them better grounds, and maybe balance the load on the phases.
Your system is only as good as your grounds. Every pole down ground should be connected to your neutral. You should not be able to take a reading between the two because they are one. A pole can be up to 70% ground potential too, so clamp the neutral to the pole and get it off the spool insulators. That may help as much as a #6 ground wire.
Lastly, if you have to wear gloves to connect your grounding jumper to the neutral because it's a hazard, and then "ground" the primary with it, is your primary really grounded???

[rob8210]

I totally agree with copperlineman. A neutral should be grounded, here the rule is every 5th pole and at every equipment pole. We also use a hubbard that bolts the neutral directly to the pole. Neutral , downground and pole is all at same potential. I have found a bit of voltage on a system neutral , but I have never heard of more than 14volts. When I found it there was a defective primary insulator and no neutral ground on that pole. The nearest downground drained it away. I too have used leathers installing grounds onto the neutral and a shotgun for grounding phases.